Logging flight hours

[Guest Yakamo]

Hello all.

I am relatively new to this forum as a poster, so I will try to keep this brief and to the point. In order to increase my overall PCSM score I will need to log at least 5-10 flight hours since at present I am unable to afford the full cost of a PPL. My question is this: What exactly counts as flying hours? I currently live in Japan and plan on going back to the states to take some flight training after I have completed their ground school course. I've been reading up on the forums and a few folks mentioned that dual time recieved with a flight instructor can count toward my log book. Does this dual time include pre/post briefing, or only time spent in the sky? Also, upon further research I came across some information from another site stating the differences between PIC (Pilot in command) time and SIC (2nd in command). As a trainee I assume that SIC only applies for those with the proper licensing, but not quite sure. So again, to make this simple-- if I'm sitting in a Cessna 1xx with a flight instructor at the controls with myself in the 2nd seat, yet still going through "training" or the learning process, would that count towards my flight hours accrued that I can verify before a selection board? Again, I this is a very gray area for me so I'm not sure on the details of what I need to do or how I should write down the proper amount of time in my logbook. Just trying to bump up my PCSM score. Any information would be TREMENDOUSLY helpful. Thank you in advance.

Edited September 15, 2010 by Yakamo

[brabus]

You log all engine running time as dual received. Look at the HOBBS meter (like a car's odometer, but hours instead) before you start the engine and after you shut down. The time difference is what you log. Your CFI will endorse the logbook to make it legit.

[donkey]

Brabus covered most of it, but to make it a little clearer...

So again, to make this simple-- if I'm sitting in a Cessna 1xx with a flight instructor at the controls with myself in the 2nd seat, yet still going through "training" or the learning process, would that count towards my flight hours accrued that I can verify before a selection board?

Yes, and the amount of time that will be logged will come from Hobbs meter.

Also, if you only need a couple of hours, most flight schools offer a intro flight for about a 100 bucks which is log-able time, and if you have a couple flight schools in your area... Can be somewhat cheaper then dropping 150 - 180 for each hour for a couple of hours at the same place.

[ZoomieRugby]

Does the military track your time for you? I know that you can keep your own logbook through IFS/UPT and beyond but is it worth it? I have heard the they sometimes screw it up so it is good to have your own.

[Guest AFsock]

Just talked to a bud who lost ~60 hours post UPT and no one knows where it went.

The ARMS office keeps track for you and you sign it off everytime you PCS, but keeping your own record, while time consuming, is totally up to you if its worth it.

[Rivanthe5th]

you dont have to complete ground school before starting flying... If you're not planning on getting your PPL, I'd do as little ground school as possible.

[brabus]

Does the military track your time for you? I know that you can keep your own logbook through IFS/UPT and beyond but is it worth it? I have heard the they sometimes screw it up so it is good to have your own.

I also know a few people who have had considerable amounts of flight time lost. It takes less than a minute to log each flight in your own logbook, so why not? I also recommend getting printouts of your flight time every few months or so. Some people consider this overkill, but like I said, what's a few minutes of your time to make sure your records are straight. Plus, the yearly records review is a joke...anyone who says they're going to catch missing flight time with that is full of shit (unless it's a large chunk). There's no way by looking at that stack of papers I'll catch a missed flight from back in June...and those missed flights add up. I personally have not had too much of a problem so far (only a few missed flights), but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

[ZoomieRugby]

I also know a few people who have had considerable amounts of flight time lost. It takes less than a minute to log each flight in your own logbook, so why not? I also recommend getting printouts of your flight time every few months or so. Some people consider this overkill, but like I said, what's a few minutes of your time to make sure your records are straight. Plus, the yearly records review is a joke...anyone who says they're going to catch missing flight time with that is full of shit (unless it's a large chunk). There's no way by looking at that stack of papers I'll catch a missed flight from back in June...and those missed flights add up. I personally have not had too much of a problem so far (only a few missed flights), but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

When the time is logged in a personal logbook, would it be best to do military way (flight time plus 5 min for taxi ,or whatever it is) or the civilian way and count all the time the engine is running. It seems like the military really screws a lot of people out of what would be considered flight time in the civilian world.

[nunya]

When the time is logged in a personal logbook, would it be best to do military way (flight time plus 5 min for taxi ,or whatever it is) or the civilian way and count all the time the engine is running. It seems like the military really screws a lot of people out of what would be considered flight time in the civilian world.

Depends on what you think you'll use your logbook for. Most airlines and similar have a correction factor to account for this. FedEx, for example, adds .2 to each military sortie. So in that case, you'd be better off having the .mil time logged our way. If you won't be applying for a place that uses a correction factor, you might be better off logging the civilian way. I log military flights the military way and civilian flights the civilian way, then I'll add the correction factor if I can or need to. The difference likely won't make or break your application.

Edited June 6, 2011 by nunya

[Archa3opt3ryx]

If you come in with some logged hours, do you add all your mil time to your civilian logbook? Or does everyone start with a new logbook at IFS?

[brabus]

I log military flights the military way and civilian flights the civilian way

Agreed. I add the normal +5 and leave it at that. If I ever use it someday for a civilian job, they can just apply whatever "correction factor" they use.

If you come in with some logged hours, do you add all your mil time to your civilian logbook? Or does everyone start with a new logbook at IFS?

Personally I have a logbook solely for mil time starting with UPT and another one for civilian time. It's all technique and there's nothing wrong with having one logbook for both...just thought it'd be easier to keep them separated.

[Flatley]

Add-on question to the flight hours topic: Do sim hours factor into the PCSM score? I'm ROTC right now (submitting my rated application next year, not this year) and I'm going for a PPL, but I'd like to stretch out my funds for as many hours as possible. Our local flight school has an FAA-certified Redbird sim available, because of the winter weather up here there have been quite a few scrubbed flights. If sim hours in my logbook will count towards the PCSM, then I'll certainly take the opportunity to train in it once in a while, otherwise, I'd much rather save the cost of sim+instructor. Thanks a lot for any help.

[spudsmac]

I can't quote from a reg, but I'm 99% certain it's actual flight time.

[brabus]

At least when I was in your shoes years ago, I remember the reg specifically saying sim time did not count, but things very well could have changed.

[Flatley]

Okay thanks, that makes sense. The sim is only really useful for IFR training anyway.

[joshrk22]

Did you guys log anything from the sims while in UPT (UTDs, IFTs, OFTs)? I haven't gotten into the FARs lately, so I'm not sure if it's worth it.

[nunya]

Sure, log it as sim and sim instrument time. It's not really worth anything, but it can't hurt to have it in your records.