T-6 Down at Laughlin

[GovernmentMan]

We heard about that at DLF...hell of a mechanical failure, especially if they were able to reproduce the problem on the ground.

C-17 copilots where getting picked off in C-17's around 2008

My impression was that the upgrade timelines were getting so ridiculous that they sent a few of them back to AETC after only a couple years (rather than having them spend an inordinate amount of time as a CP). At least two of them were sent to DLF for this reason (one to T-6s and one to T-1s). My info is all second-hand, so an actual C-17 pilot can probably shed some more light on the subject.

Edited March 6, 2011 by GovernmentMan

[Toro]

I agree that formation flying is a blast. But in my limited time at UPT it seemed like some IPs had the wrong mindset about formation. Formation flying is a means to accomplish the mission. It is admin. It is not THE mission and it certainly isn't about shining your ass and trying to see who can be the most aggressive. Most of the IPs I flew formation with at UPT were a lot less aggressive with the airplane and low and behold were able to complete rejoins quickly and without attracting flight lead's attention. Isn't that the point?

Beyond UPT, formation is admin. In UPT, it most certainly is the mission. That being said, you are correct that student rides are not the time to show what a badass you are - save that shit for CT and teach dudes how to do it right.

An inexperienced IP should not be sitting back with his arms on the rails during a rejoin, nor should any IP.

Yup. As an MR 4FL/IP/EP taking a checkride, I looked up to the mirrors on more than one occasion during the final turn to see my SEFEs arms go from the rails down to the controls.

Trust but verify.

[POKESC17]

We heard about that at DLF...hell of a mechanical failure, especially if they were able to reproduce the problem on the ground.

My impression was that the upgrade timelines were getting so ridiculous that they sent a few of them back to AETC after only a couple years (rather than having them spend an inordinate amount of time as a CP). At least two of them were sent to DLF for this reason (one to T-6s and one to T-1s). My info is all second-hand, so an actual C-17 pilot can probably shed some more light on the subject.

I don't recall anything about upgrades timelines getting ridiculous but according to the almighty powers AFPC, C-17's were overmanned with copilot's (never mind that we were undermanned when it came to AC's or IP's) so the solution was to send a bunch to white jets, U-28, UAV's, etc.

[Skitzo]

Does that mostly have to do with the (lack of) flying time that most guys in the BONE are (were?) getting?

It had to do with the VML for the ALFA bill, two years in the squadron you were headed out the door for an ALFA unless you were reclama for a potential weapons school look or were a prior FAIP. It took pretty much a year and a half to get through MQT and a deployment. By that time you were on the VML and oh by the way despite sitting pretty on hours/priority for upgrade we would get back guys from requal and their ALFA tour and they would jump over you in priority to upgrade. Not sure how this construct has changed since ALO tours went to three years and TAMI did her thing. I had 400 hours in the jet after a year operational but I "knew" I would probably not be number one on the AC upgrade list due to guys coming in for requal. Therefore when TAMI hit me up U-28s was my choice because in a year I knew I probably would not be upgraded to AC and most likely would find myself going to UPT or heading out to be an ALO or to UAVs. Not my cup of tea. Anyone else that has more current information please feel free to chime in.

[Herk Driver]

Really? People leave as copliots to go back to UPT? That sucks. At least they can be the AC there...

Yes and the ones I knew were volunteers...

[Gov]

Yup. As an MR 4FL/IP/EP taking a checkride, I looked up to the mirrors on more than one occasion during the final turn to see my SEFEs arms go from the rails down to the controls.

Trust but verify.

In the interest of full disclosure, anyone I won a beer from for the "no hands rejoin or final turn", pm me for a refund - my gloves on the mirrors were my spares.

Sorry if I just revealed anyone's pet trick.