Guard Technician Pay

[189Herk]

Just wondering if any ANG techs could answer a few questions.

1. Is the guard on the GS system still or do they use the new pay-band stuff?

2. Are instructor pilots automatically a GS-13?

3. How do the steps work, are you automatically step 1 when you get hired?

4. When/if I buy back my active duty time towards a federal retirement, does that also affect what step I am on?

Thanks guys...

[Crog]

Just wondering if any ANG techs could answer a few questions.

1. Is the guard on the GS system still or do they use the new pay-band stuff?

2. Are instructor pilots automatically a GS-13?

3. How do the steps work, are you automatically step 1 when you get hired?

4. When/if I buy back my active duty time towards a federal retirement, does that also affect what step I am on?

Thanks guys...

1. ANG is GS. Federal employees that converted to NSPS banding are now converting back.

2. Yes, I believe that's standard across the ANG.

3. You start step 1, and if you're not a complete douchenozzle, a step a year until step 4, then one every 2 yrs until....then one every 3 yrs...until you reach step 10 just before 20. Don't have the exact increments, but you get the picture.

4. No. Civil Service steps are not influenced by your "buy back"

[Bergman]

4. No. Civil Service steps are not influenced by your "buy back"

True. Just wanted to note that buying-back time does count toward vacation time and seniority. Probably other things as well. Perhaps a bonafide technician can speak up.

[onetail]

True. Just wanted to note that buying-back time does count toward vacation time and seniority. Probably other things as well. Perhaps a bonafide technician can speak up.

I'm an ART and you don't have to buy back time to get credit towards federal service, DD214 and other justifying paperwork submitted to the state HRO will work. This month I step up to the 8 hrs leave / pay period (15 credited years).

Edited October 5, 2010 by onetail

[matmacwc]

I'm an ART and you don't have to buy back time to get credit towards federal service, DD214 and other justifying paperwork submitted to the state HRO will work. This month I step up to the 8 hrs leave / pay period (15 credited years).

Anyone else speak on this topic? I have found calculators in the web that dispute this statement.

[jcollins]

The option for buyback is for retirement credit. You get the choice to do this, within 5 years I think. If you decide to do so you have to pay a certain percentage.

The credit for seniority/vacation time earning rate is automatic, when you in-process you bring in your DD214s, etc and they artificially backdate your start date for this purpose.

[matmacwc]

The option for buyback is for retirement credit. You get the choice to do this, within 5 years I think. If you decide to do so you have to pay a certain percentage.

The credit for seniority/vacation time earning rate is automatic, when you in-process you bring in your DD214s, etc and they artificially backdate your start date for this purpose.

Worth it?

[matmacwc]

Additionally, what's the deal with the pilot offset. I see a GS-13's pay across the board, from 81K to 93K in STEP 1, what is it?? I know it depends on where you live, but what is the base? Looks like you can make a helluva lot more money as an ART, giving up the retirement and all, but they match in TSP.

[onetail]

Can't speak to locality, but the special salary tables on OPM.gov spell out what each step makes for the 2181 series (airplane flight instructor). Generally, a GS-13 IP makes more take-home money up to the rank of Major. Then the tax exempt BAH starts to make it better to be an AGR or on AD. That's without the bonus, which is only an option for AGR's. Also consider that to make as much take-home pay, you have to max out AFTPs (36 per year) 144 hours total above and beyond the 40hr work week and UTA's. There are many variables, I heard someone did the comparison ART vs AGR as a masters thesis. There are good aspects to being an ART: 120hrs of mil leave per year to "double dip", TSP matching up to 5%, getting paid for guard weekends.

Given a choice most would rather be an AGR: Pension at 20yrs, tax exempt BAH, bonus, 2.5 days leave per month, and Tricare(difficult to believe but true).

"Worth It" to buy back time? It depends. You get instant credit in FERS that you can collect at age 59 or earlier depending on time deployed.

[matmacwc]

Can't speak to locality, but the special salary tables on OPM.gov spell out what each step makes for the 2181 series (airplane flight instructor). Generally, a GS-13 IP makes more take-home money up to the rank of Major. Then the tax exempt BAH starts to make it better to be an AGR or on AD. That's without the bonus, which is only an option for AGR's. Also consider that to make as much take-home pay, you have to max out AFTPs (36 per year) 144 hours total above and beyond the 40hr work week and UTA's. There are many variables, I heard someone did the comparison ART vs AGR as a masters thesis. There are good aspects to being an ART: 120hrs of mil leave per year to "double dip", TSP matching up to 5%, getting paid for guard weekends.

Given a choice most would rather be an AGR: Pension at 20yrs, tax exempt BAH, bonus, 2.5 days leave per month, and Tricare(difficult to believe but true).

"Worth It" to buy back time? It depends. You get instant credit in FERS that you can collect at age 59 or earlier depending on time deployed.

I hear what you are saying, but do you really max out AFTP's? Couldn't you look for more? I agree that AGR is simpler (what we are used too), but it seems that if you know what you are doing, WAY more money as an ART....So again, any pay tables?

Edited November 16, 2010 by matmacwc

[onetail]

Here's the 2181 "Airplane Flight Instructor" pay table. Some organizations start you at a Step 3, but they have to justify it with previous quals/experience.

https://apps.opm.gov/SpecialRates/package/table055801012010.html

Edited November 22, 2010 by onetail

[TAMInated]

I heard someone did the comparison ART vs AGR as a masters thesis.

I've heard this, too. Anyone have a copy?

[Azimuth]

Is the ANG trying to phase out AGR's like AFRC?

Edited July 7, 2012 by Azimuth

[herkbum]

Is the ANG trying to phase out AGR's like AFRC?

I hope not, at least for 5 more years! Seriously, i haven't heard anything to this affect. We are in the process of hiring more AGRs now.

[Marco]

Nope. All of our Temp AGR's have been converted to Full Time status. Myself included. :)

[matmacwc]

I now know:

GS-13 step 1 ART (Major) pay is 600-800 dollars less a month than an AD major with 12 years in (take home). You pay more in taxes and have to pay for your own health insurance. This of course depends on your AFTP allocation (how you do it) and AT days (minimum 15 days a year). Some months are better than AD, but most are an average of what I stated above. Step 3 and 4 start making all the difference in the world, by step 10 your are paid like an AD LtCol on the bonus until you are 55 (if they let you stay). Switching between AGR and ART is where it's at but that's a discussion for the bar. Oh yeah, alert makes a big difference as well.

[hindsight2020]

As has been highlighted before, you have to burn all your IDT to make it worth your while and that proposition [burning all your IDT] is NOT a given. Depending on the unit and the composition of flying week to week you will be leaving money on the table in order to have a semblance of a home life. That or adding to the perception of "boondoggle shenanigans" TRs already have of ARTs...you know, 10 of them fuckers to a night jet to burn that AFTP like it's going out of style. et al ad nauseam. And now that simulators count for flying TP credit, holy shit watch out (good deal as it is, don't get me wrong).

All in all, ART is a decent amount of money considering this economy. But you're working longer for less money and a more diluted retirement and paying a hell of a lot more for healthcare at no appreciable gain in quality of service. Which is why the AGR is a hell of a better deal and is and will continue to be the favorite ugly baby leadership wants to rid itself of from now until then end of the program. If you want to be an ART because you can't come up with a better way of pursuing your life after 20 years of service than draggin' ass in a Reserve squadron for a paycut while clogging up the pipeline for the hungry young guys, holy shit I guess can't relate. I love flying toys for Uncle sugar but I don't want to be doing this shit at 57, I want to be doing my own shit on my own time; flying without ORM sheets and disco belts. To each their own.

AFRC bubbas won a small victory with the latest AGR-to-ART conversion "strategic pause". You want to talk about ironic? Mr. Democrat President singlehandedly saved the AGR program two years ago with the federal hiring freeze. They couldn't implement the ART conversion due to no ability to fund it. It literally came down to bad timing for the AFRC/CC, according to the latest gouge from the /A1A folks some months ago. Poetic. This time around they hit the same wall trying to prison-rape the positions into existence. Plus the ol man is finally moving on and so his brainchild is left without sponsors. hooray...for now.

ART works for some units. Within the context of TFI/TFE units, my experience has been that ARTs a big miscarriage in the incest that is Active Duty OPCON over Reserve bodies. But that "the Reserves and the dream are dead" discussion, truly is for the bar and I digress.

All in all, either option beats unemployment. Alternatively, there's something to be said for straight GS (civil service) while being a straight TR. Depending on the agency, it could be the best of the three worlds. Better civilian paycheck than a flake ass airline musical chairs job and you still get to play with the toys without the political bullshit.

[jnav]

I was ART for 10 years. Flew TAC in hercs till the last couple then WC Recco. That was great cause we have 10 ART crews so the workload was to put it mildly "light". The money was phenomenal compared to a LOT of civilian gigs and at least you felt like if you were working a lot extra it was a choice. It isn't perfect but there are a lot worse deals out there. I'm working on a new career now, less money but hopefully more fulfilling. I agree straight GS and TR is the bettter deal. There's a lot of political BS and if you are in love with "fair" I might recommend you look elsewhere but it can be a comfortable deal. Comfy to the point of coma.

[thecloser2144]

Don't forget that when they boot you out before your MRA (minimum retirement age), mine being 57, you don't get a cola adjustment until you reach 62. Basically, you are getting penalized every year for getting booted out.

In my state, (Wisconsin), the TAG has decided to not write any waivers for Air Tech's seeking to extend their civil service beyond their 28 years of commissioned service date. So, if you are an air tech, you can only count on working until you hit that date, or 30 if you make O-6. I also heard more and more states are starting to go to this. Of course, when the airline industry turns upside down in 5 - 10 years, this will all change.

On another note, does anyone know how to calculate AGR retirement pay?....I know how to do it on the traditional guardsman side, being cents per point after 60 (army has a good website for this), but what if I convert over to AGR, does anyone know how to compute pay in retirement as an AGR? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[herkbum]

On another note, does anyone know how to calculate AGR retirement pay?....I know how to do it on the traditional guardsman side, being cents per point after 60 (army has a good website for this), but what if I convert over to AGR, does anyone know how to compute pay in retirement as an AGR? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

My personnel folks did it for me. I think they used my total retirement points to date and then did some magic math to come to a year total. I am going to have them do it again since they came up with 1 yr more than I thought I had.

[Bayou_Eagle_Driver]

Where can I see the difference between a rated pilot vs an instructor? The current documents I've found on the opm website list pilots along with instructors and test pilot all in the 2181 series, without distinguished pay scales.

Thanks.

[SocialD]

Where can I see the difference between a rated pilot vs an instructor? The current documents I've found on the opm website list pilots along with instructors and test pilot all in the 2181 series, without distinguished pay scales.

Thanks.

In general a non-IP = GS-12, IP = GS-13. All under 2181.