Common Vertical Lift Support Platform 15 yrs late

[Spinner]

Chances USAF would do something that made sense? Zero.

FIFY...

[JarheadBoom]

Pretty sure they've already got an upgrade solution out there--it's called the UH-1Y Venom.

Or if they wanted to go COTS, the Bell 412.

[Victory103]

Or go the Army route and buy COTS UH-72s.

[Dupe]

Here's the reality check: there's no acquisition money to buy COTS anything. There is sustainment money to upgrade existing platforms (which may in the end be more expensive...but it's not a "new program"). Pretty much every Air Force MDS but the JSF is trying to figure out how to bend better capabilities out sustainment money in the name of improved maintenance

[SVFR]

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<p>Pretty sure they've already got an upgrade solution out there--it's called the UH-1Y Venom. Production line is already in place and running, depot at Cherry Point already in place and goin strong. Minimal to no start up costs.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p> </p>

<p>My understanding is that the Marine N models were suppose to be upgraded to Yankee models but replaced by them. </p>

<p> </p>

<p>My prediction for an upgrade: Crashworthy seats for pilots and FE, NVG compatable lights added to old steam gauges, and the icing on the cake - Wolfsburg radio. 1970's aircraft, welcome to to the 1990's.</p>

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[JarheadBoom]

Or go the Army route and buy COTS UH-72s.

B412 useful load - 5100lbs.

UH-1N useful load - 4500lbs.

UH-72 useful load - 3950lbs.

(comparison numbers pulled from Wikipedia [insert standard Wiki-as-a-source bitches/moans/complaints here])

The 412 is now coming from Bell with the BLR FastFin as standard equipment, which adds up to 1250lbs lift capacity under hot-high conditions, along with some other benefits. Can also be retrofitted to the B212 (UH-1N).

Or... just get in on the Army's UH-60M buy, with the added long-term benefits of a common logistics tail and training pipeline for all manning positions.

My understanding is that the Marine N models were suppose to be upgraded to Yankee models but replaced by them.

Correct. They detail-stripped a few Ns (the same way the AF detail-stripped a C-5 a while back) to determine just how much work would be necessary to remanufacture the bare airframes to the Y standard. They found they'd be better off with new-build aircraft (a decision that is very controversial to this day...).

My prediction for an upgrade: Crashworthy seats for pilots and FE, NVG compatable lights added to old steam gauges, and the icing on the cake - Wolfsburg radio. 1970's aircraft, welcome to to the 1990's.

Sadly, you're probably right.

[Lawman]

Correct. They detail-stripped a few Ns (the same way the AF detail-stripped a C-5 a while back) to determine just how much work would be necessary to remanufacture the bare airframes to the Y standard. They found they'd be better off with new-build aircraft (a decision that is very controversial to this day...).

Didnt help that right as the decisions on the "best way" to do things we suddenly got ourselves involved in a whole metric ###### ton of War time Ops.

[Breckey]

There is a contract that was just approved for the NVG compatible cockpit for the Huey back in December. Also there were slides for the WW Heli Conference last year about the crashworthy seat proposal.

Improved survivability is a joke. The refurbished Marine birds that we are getting are getting all of their defense systems removed because they don't want the cost of maintaining them.

The UH-72 won't work at all because we are already payload limited.

[raimius]

UH-72s are just not built to carry much at all, even at sea level.

They generate some funny stories for the TH-1 crews at Rucker though.

[Breckey]

Yeah like when one PL's and Flat Iron can't take the entire crew. Sure glad that they weren't hurt or something.

[HeloDude]

Yeah like when one PL's and Flat Iron can't take the entire crew. Sure glad that they weren't hurt or something.

Agree on the overall discussion that the UH-72 would be a poor replacement for the Huey.

Disagree on the part that there would be an issue (due to the fact that the UH-72 can't carry much) if a Rucker bird had issues and there were injuries--you can't swing a dead cat within a 50 mile radius of Rucker without hitting a helicopter. Trust me, there would be more than enough assets in the area to make the pick-up if needed.

[Breckey]

Not arguing that, it's just that the dedicated MEDEVAC bird for Rucker cannot carry an entire crew and will have to rely on other aircraft.

The Huey's they replaced, could.

[Hookdriver]

Yeah like when one PL's and Flat Iron can't take the entire crew. Sure glad that they weren't hurt or something.

Yea no kidding. My buddy PLd at Florala. The Lakota showed up, got gas, and had to leave a crew member there just to take the PL'd crew back to Cairns.

[Breckey]

At least he had the cookies and burritos to keep him company.

[Lawman]

Agree on the overall discussion that the UH-72 would be a poor replacement for the Huey.

Disagree on the part that there would be an issue (due to the fact that the UH-72 can't carry much) if a Rucker bird had issues and there were injuries--you can't swing a dead cat within a 50 mile radius of Rucker without hitting a helicopter. Trust me, there would be more than enough assets in the area to make the pick-up if needed.

Casevac does not equal medevac. And I've personally been in a position where we pl'd near the Georgia/Alabama border and the Lakota could only take one of us. The others sat for an hour and a half till a Huey showed up and took us out of there with the plane guard to watch the bird we'd just parked in a field.

[HeloDude]

Casevac does not equal medevac. And I've personally been in a position where we pl'd near the Georgia/Alabama border and the Lakota could only take one of us. The others sat for an hour and a half till a Huey showed up and took us out of there with the plane guard to watch the bird we'd just parked in a field.

Irrelevant to my point. I said that though I agree the Lakota would be a poor replacement for the N model (obviously a poor replacement for the Huey flatiron), I was commenting on:

Yeah like when one PL's and Flat Iron can't take the entire crew. Sure glad that they weren't hurt or something.

Again, even if all the flatiron birds were 60's or 47's and were all broke, there would still be plenty of birds in the area to pick up a crew if someone was hurt.

As for having to wait to get picked up from a PL near Rucker, big deal man. I've waited SEVERAL hours while PL'd in the freezing cold mountains and having to build a fire just to stay warm--Rucker is nothing.

[raimius]

Again, even if all the flatiron birds were 60's or 47's and were all broke, there would still be plenty of birds in the area to pick up a crew if someone was hurt.

Anyone who could safely carry out an injured crew would, of course. That's not really the point. The bird with the primary responsibility isn't capable more than half the time...that's a major screw up.

...and dang we got off topic!

[Lawman]

Again, even if all the flatiron birds were 60's or 47's and were all broke, there would still be plenty of birds in the area to pick up a crew if someone was hurt.

I think you missed my point. Any helicopter can casevac just like any ground vehicle, but it may be much more detrimental to the casualty. I can throw a guy on the EFAB and D ring him on, but I can treat him. I can't apply pressure to wounds or try to keep him flat on a hard board so he doesn't aggravate injury. And neither can another couple yahoos in a 60 with no medic that was "near" our RT.

That's something we try to drive home when we talk about spur rides in the Apache, I there is a 60 close and your trying to take out a critical casualty you may kill him trying to save him.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Lawman

[ExBoneOSO]

Thread revival.....

CVLSP shelved..for now

After years of general officers arguing for a more robust helicopter to provide security for nuclear missile fields in the United States, the Air Force Global Strike Command chief says he has shelved a plan to replace aging UH-1Ns for now.

[HeloDude]

This is old news...it was cut last year. It not being funded in the recently passed DoD budget is what made it official. Even if it was funded, I imagine it wouldn't have survived sequestration cuts.

[504PIR]

Air Force planning decade-long Huey extension.

Article: https://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20130822/NEWS04/308220019/Air-Force-planning-decade-long-Huey-extension

[Torch]

TAWS/TCAS. Just give me my NVG cockpit already.

[HeloDude]

TAWS/TCAS. Just give me my NVG cockpit already.

...as always, I'll believe it when I see it. Just getting the NVG compatible cockpits would be a win.

[Snooter]

Deleted d2 previously discussed option UH-1Y...

Edited August 22, 2013 by Snooter

[Torch]

why? its still worth a discussion over.