Flying with Wing Leadership

[GearMonkey]

A couple weeks ago Charleston came out with a new policy that requires the following when flying with WG & OG leadership:

- Crew BIOs submitted in advance.

- AC and SQ/CC brief flight (local or mission) profile to the WG/CC or OG/CC three days prior.

- AC meets/salutes WG/CC or OG/CC at the aircraft door.

- No "excessive" FLIP or PRO gear allowed in the cockpit or crew rest area.

Today I stopped by AFE and discovered that several new VIP shelves have been added to the front lobby so the brass can get their gear 6.9 seconds faster than the rest of us. I wish I'd seen the pitch meeting where it was suggested that the most easily accessible shelves be devoted to the guys that fly the least. Brilliant!

I've seen a lot of craziness over the years but this really takes the cake. I guess being a crewdog and getting excited to be out of the office for a day is too much to ask from the beautiful people. I don't mind when they skip planning day or roll up to the jet 30 minutes prior to takeoff but adding this extra bullshit to my already busy schedule is not cool.

Please tell me this stupidity is confined to KCHS.

[pawnman]

A couple weeks ago Charleston came out with a new policy that requires the following when flying with WG & OG leadership:

- Crew BIOs submitted in advance.

- AC and SQ/CC brief flight (local or mission) profile to the WG/CC or OG/CC three days prior.

- AC meets/salutes WG/CC or OG/CC at the aircraft door.

- No "excessive" FLIP or PRO gear allowed in the cockpit or crew rest area.

Today I stopped by AFE and discovered that several new VIP shelves have been added to the front lobby so the brass can get their gear 6.9 seconds faster than the rest of us. I wish I'd seen the pitch meeting where it was suggested that the most easily accessible shelves be devoted to the guys that fly the least. Brilliant!

I've seen a lot of craziness over the years but this really takes the cake. I guess being a crewdog and getting excited to be out of the office for a day is too much to ask from the beautiful people. I don't mind when they skip planning day or roll up to the jet 30 minutes prior to takeoff but adding this extra bullshit to my already busy schedule is not cool.

Please tell me this stupidity is confined to KCHS.

I can't say if it's only confined to your base, but I can tell you I've never seen it out of a B-1 WG/CC. Even the AUAB WG/CC often showed up to the chow hall an hour prior to the mission brief to eat with the rest of the crew. Often our WG and OG/CC are utilized as IPs and Evaluators, coming in on mission planning day (granted, they generally have alot of alibis so they don't get the full effect...but still), and they step with the rest of us, ride in the same van with the rest of us, and debrief with the rest of us.

They certainly don't require crew bios or a mission brief three days in advance. Then again, both B-1 bases are home to relatively small operations groups, so the WG and OG/CC already know most of the people in the squadron on at least a "I've seen that guy around" basis.

[SocialD]

WOW, somebody thinks highly of themselves! When I fly with my OG, I usually go ask him what he wants loaded in the cans and what mission planning materials he would like. His usual response is, it's already done...we brief at XX, see ya then! He just likes to do all the mission planning himself. Never would have guessed an O-6 would be doing the mission planning for of a LT!

Edited November 25, 2010 by SocialD

[contraildash]

Saluting people before they get on my plane is just part of the job. Our leadership is pretty down to earth when they fly with us, even includes the flying generals. Although their briefs are usually during the taxi for takeoff. ;)

[Guest Crew Report]

I can't say if it's only confined to your base, but I can tell you I've never seen it out of a B-1 WG/CC. Even the AUAB WG/CC often showed up to the chow hall an hour prior to the mission brief to eat with the rest of the crew. Often our WG and OG/CC are utilized as IPs and Evaluators, coming in on mission planning day (granted, they generally have alot of alibis so they don't get the full effect...but still), and they step with the rest of us, ride in the same van with the rest of us, and debrief with the rest of us.

They certainly don't require crew bios or a mission brief three days in advance. Then again, both B-1 bases are home to relatively small operations groups, so the WG and OG/CC already know most of the people in the squadron on at least a "I've seen that guy around" basis.

How does your Wing King stay proficient to be a full up IP/EP? Not saying it's impossible, but still it's hard to do in the MAF world.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Crew Report

[Herk Driver]

Hmmmph. I heard that the AG/CC at Dyess wants something fairly similar. The last guy specifically asked that nothing special be done. However, the new guy apparently wants crew bios and he is ticked that the O-6 sign is not always in the kick window. I think that the Mx guys may "forget" to put the sign on the airplane sometimes. I don't think I've ever heard of the other items that you mention above being required.

How does your Wing King stay proficient to be a full up IP/EP? Not saying it's impossible, but still it's hard to do in the MAF world.

I don't know. It's actually pretty easy if you try hard enough. For example, in the C-130, if you tried and had the correct flights, you could get your semi-annuals complete in less than 5-7 flights. Why is it too much to ask the Wing/CC to fly with a student when he comes down to fly? All he has to do is stay current so he doesn't need an IP. The currency that expires the fastest is the takeoff, approach and landing. So that means that he has to fly once every two months and if he does it on a night Tac sortie, he gets the other beans and currencies to boot. They just have to make time.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Herk Driver

[Guest Crew Report]

A couple weeks ago Charleston came out with a new policy that requires the following when flying with WG & OG leadership:

- Crew BIOs submitted in advance.

- AC and SQ/CC brief flight (local or mission) profile to the WG/CC or OG/CC three days prior.

- AC meets/salutes WG/CC or OG/CC at the aircraft door.

- No "excessive" FLIP or PRO gear allowed in the cockpit or crew rest area.

Today I stopped by AFE and discovered that several new VIP shelves have been added to the front lobby so the brass can get their gear 6.9 seconds faster than the rest of us. I wish I'd seen the pitch meeting where it was suggested that the most easily accessible shelves be devoted to the guys that fly the least. Brilliant!

I've seen a lot of craziness over the years but this really takes the cake. I guess being a crewdog and getting excited to be out of the office for a day is too much to ask from the beautiful people. I don't mind when they skip planning day or roll up to the jet 30 minutes prior to takeoff but adding this extra bullshit to my already busy schedule is not cool.

Please tell me this stupidity is confined to KCHS.

Your wing king is a Gucci driver by trade. He's probably pissed that he has to actually run a preflight checklist.

[Wing Sweep]

Effin' D-bags! These O-6s you speak of should choke themselves, then go DNIF. UFB! Rank must be left at the door, otherwise guys will not speak up when needed. I know everyone says, "Hell yeah, I'd speak up!" Maybe so, but the truth is when an O-6 needs all those shenanigans to go fly, the focus of the mission is lost. The new focus becomes making sure the O-6 queep list is complete and he's happy. It's crap like this being brought to light that makes dudes want to ...(insert adjectives, verbs, adverbs as required).

I shake my cranium in disgust... Sorry Charleston bros, really sorry.

I will second previous comments of the Bone community. I flew with our Wing King and OG, both IPs. They made sure a few of my flying currencies were back up to speed once or twice. With their experience level, they don't require the amount of flights or beans a rookie does, so it's much easier for them to stay current. They were smart on most facets of the mission and had no problems being called out when they screwed up. In fact, most of the time they would call themselves out and admit their mistakes before we called them out. I think that's pretty standard for most mission/flight leads in the CAF. If someone gets their feelings hurt, they need to work elsewhere.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Wow, definitely unique as far as I've heard. We're another relatively small unit and just about everyone knows everyone else. Our leadership makes every effort to be crew dogs when they fly. They often alibi mission planing due to other commitments, but when it comes to actually flying they are just another member of the crew to the best of their ability.

[GoAround]

A couple weeks ago Charleston came out with a new policy that requires the following when flying with WG & OG leadership:

- Crew BIOs submitted in advance.

- AC and SQ/CC brief flight (local or mission) profile to the WG/CC or OG/CC three days prior.

- AC meets/salutes WG/CC or OG/CC at the aircraft door.

- No "excessive" FLIP or PRO gear allowed in the cockpit or crew rest area.

Today I stopped by AFE and discovered that several new VIP shelves have been added to the front lobby so the brass can get their gear 6.9 seconds faster than the rest of us. I wish I'd seen the pitch meeting where it was suggested that the most easily accessible shelves be devoted to the guys that fly the least. Brilliant!

I've seen a lot of craziness over the years but this really takes the cake. I guess being a crewdog and getting excited to be out of the office for a day is too much to ask from the beautiful people. I don't mind when they skip planning day or roll up to the jet 30 minutes prior to takeoff but adding this extra bullshit to my already busy schedule is not cool.

Please tell me this stupidity is confined to KCHS.

i gotta call bullshnike on briefing 3 days prior...c'mon man you know that ain't legit. how can you brief wx, crews, refueling, etc that many days in advance. that means you've mission planned 4-5 days out. sorry don't believe you.

The wg/cv at chs (shout out to "smokey") could fly circles around your nut sac and floss his teeth with your pubes before you'd even know he'd been there.

good thing you're not an osa pilot...the gayness there would turn you pink.

[GearMonkey]

sorry don't believe you.

Memo is attached. Upon further review the briefing is two days prior rather than three. That is sill a pretty tough standard to meet. Now that I re-read the details it seems any WG/CC or CV mission must first be briefed to the OG/CC or CV to ensure everything is up to snuff. Basically this means two full mission briefs prior to the actual mission brief on fly day.

I agree that Smokey is legit. I doubt he had anything to do with this policy and I'm pretty sure the OG didn't either.

The worst part of all this is that there are some pretty awesome O-6s out there. I flew with the UAFM OG/CC a couple times this summer and he was a total crewdog. He helped drag bags, served as a wing walker during a push-back, and was spread-eagled on the cargo floor at one point trying to fix a broken ADS rail with the MX folks and the Loadmasters.

Memo.pdf

Edited November 9, 2010 by GearMonkey

[HiFlyer]

Its been a while, but when I was flying out of Cannon in the old days our Wing King insisted on having his aircraft (I'm talking F-100Ds) towed out to the hammerhead and preflighted by a Stan/Eval FE so he could just jump in the jet and go without wasting his time taxing the whole mile to the end of the runway. He was the prototype douchbag, by the way!

[magnetfreezer]

Memo is attached. Upon further review the briefing is two days prior rather than three. That is sill a pretty tough standard to meet. Now that I re-read the details it seems any WG/CC or CV mission must first be briefed to the OG/CC or CV to ensure everything is up to snuff. Basically this means two full mission briefs prior to the actual mission brief on fly day.

I agree that Smokey is legit. I doubt he had anything to do with this policy and I'm pretty sure the OG didn't either.

The worst part of all this is that there are some pretty awesome O-6s out there. I flew with the UAFM OG/CC a couple times this summer and he was a total crewdog. He helped drag bags, served as a wing walker during a push-back, and was spread-eagled on the cargo floor at one point trying to fix a broken ADS rail with the MX folks and the Loadmasters.

Seems unusual to be from the OG exec but with the CC's signature block...could be an out of control exec trying to impress the leadership.

[Guest Crew Report]

Memo is attached. Upon further review the briefing is two days prior rather than three. That is sill a pretty tough standard to meet. Now that I re-read the details it seems any WG/CC or CV mission must first be briefed to the OG/CC or CV to ensure everything is up to snuff. Basically this means two full mission briefs prior to the actual mission brief on fly day.

I agree that Smokey is legit. I doubt he had anything to do with this policy and I'm pretty sure the OG didn't either.

The worst part of all this is that there are some pretty awesome O-6s out there. I flew with the UAFM OG/CC a couple times this summer and he was a total crewdog. He helped drag bags, served as a wing walker during a push-back, and was spread-eagled on the cargo floor at one point trying to fix a broken ADS rail with the MX folks and the Loadmasters.

I wonder if this memo applies to the WG/CC or CV's annual checkride?

Oh yeah, the memo is incorrectly formatted via the Tongue & Quill.

/shoe

Edited November 9, 2010 by Crew Report

[capt4fans]

Memo is attached.

:bohica:

[Guest Hueypilot812]

Ugh. It's good to see those guys think having "extraneous" pro gear, pubs/FLIP and "paperwork" (like the aircraft forms) is more of an inconvenience than getting lost, taking off without the ER signed, not having the right approach plate when the WX turns to shit, or wishing you had your flashlight handy when it's now stored 20 feet behind you.

My take...if you're gonna wear wings and command a FLYING unit, then be a man and be a damn pilot. Not some desk jockey that likes to pretend he's a pilot, except the parts of the job that aren't fun.

[Wolf424]

Can't speak for everyone, but that doesn't happen in the Herk world I know. At Yokota, we have the 5th AF/CC who used to fly with us occasionally (just had a change of command, can't speak for the new 3 star) and we would brief him separately, have his FCIFs signed off and briefed to him, etc. But for the WG/CC or OG/CC? I've never seen something like that. They show up to brief at brief time, sit through the whole thing, walk out to the plane with us, carry their own bags, preform the walkaround, etc. g2s is right, this stinks of "halo effect". Are these O-6s requesting the planes with their names on them to be the ones they fly? What a joke. Apparently hack the mish = don't forget my O-6 placard.

[HercDude]

Can't speak for everyone, but that doesn't happen in the Herk world I know. At Yokota, we have the 5th AF/CC who used to fly with us occasionally (just had a change of command, can't speak for the new 3 star) and we would brief him separately, have his FCIFs signed off and briefed to him, etc. But for the WG/CC or OG/CC? I've never seen something like that. They show up to brief at brief time, sit through the whole thing, walk out to the plane with us, carry their own bags, preform the walkaround, etc. g2s is right, this stinks of "halo effect". Are these O-6s requesting the planes with their names on them to be the ones they fly? What a joke. Apparently hack the mish = don't forget my O-6 placard.

Most of my time at Pope we never even had an O-6 who maintained currency in the aircraft. I remember that the Fun Burglar required 2 or 3 MAJCOM waivers to finish Indoc - 2 flights! - which he never did (at least while I was there). A couple OG/CCs were current and would fly once a month, almost always a Pro line.

That being said, I would never even imagine a policy as gay as having a crew bio on someones desk 2 days prior to flying. If you want to be a crew dog and fly - show up, brief, execute, and debrief. If you want to write OPRs & policy memos, keep that ship on your desk & out of the Squadron.

[JeepGuyC17]

The gayest thing of all is that this also applies to sims. Fucking sims.

[pawnman]

How does your Wing King stay proficient to be a full up IP/EP? Not saying it's impossible, but still it's hard to do in the MAF world.

I'm not in the MAF world. With his level of experience, in order to maintain BMC, he only needs 2 flights a month or 4 flights in 3 months to meet lookback.

[contraildash]

4. The first impression is often the most lasting . . .by following these simple steps, we can

ensure we make a positive one!

Words to live by. I wonder if the person who wrote this letter even has a clue on how this is being received. So much for "first impressions."

[Guest]

WOW, somebody think highly of themselves! When I fly with my OG, I usually go ask him what he want loaded in the cans and what mission planning materials he would like. His usual response is, it's already done...we brief at XX, see ya then! He just likes to do all the mission planning himself. Never would have guessed an O-6 would be doing the mission planning for of a LT!

Fuckin-a right. Can he kick your ass with in hand tied behind his back, too?

That's a guy you want to pay close attention to. They're a rare breed.

[Champ Kind]

Sad.

[BQZip01]

Fuckin-a right. Can he kick your ass with in hand tied behind his back, too?

That's a guy you want to pay close attention to. They're a rare breed.

2

[polcat]

Hmmmph. I heard that the AG/CC at Dyess wants something fairly similar. The last guy specifically asked that nothing special be done. However, the new guy apparently wants crew bios and he is ticked that the O-6 sign is not always in the kick window. I think that the Mx guys may "forget" to put the sign on the airplane sometimes. I don't think I've ever heard of the other items that you mention above being required.

Why do I not find that surprising about him...

At least from what I've seen locally and deployed, O-6s will show up with the crew (even eat with us at the chow hall) without all this extraneousness. Heck, I even understand if they can't fly the whole mission because they had to be in the office before show or have an early show the next day. One of the coolest O-6s was Col "Moondog" Jackson who would not only release the standby AC, but would fly the whole mission as well as provide actual meaningful instruction.