Flying with Wing Leadership

[nrodgsxr]

It is.

but not probable

[Guest Crew Report]

but not probable

Guy at my last assignment is retiring this year as an O-3 and 5,000+ hours of flying in the -135. Was Active Duty his whole career. It's possible, don't do SOS.

[brabus]

Guy at my last assignment is retiring this year as an O-3 and 5,000+ hours of flying in the -135. Was Active Duty his whole career. It's possible, don't do SOS.

Wow. I thought you had to promote by a certain year or else you were involuntarily separated?

[zrooster99]

Wow. I thought you had to promote by a certain year or else you were involuntarily separated?

My understanding is there is a max time in grade as Capt (high year tenure or something like that) and the only folks I know who were able to retire as O-3s were prior E with enough years in that it wasn't an issue...there's got to be more to this story....

[Learjetter]

My understanding is there is a max time in grade as Capt (high year tenure or something like that) and the only folks I know who were able to retire as O-3s were prior E with enough years in that it wasn't an issue...there's got to be more to this story....

The rest of the story: folks twice deferred for promotion (2 times non-select) SOMETIMES get offered "selective continuation." instead of involuntary separation. Depends on your AFSC and the current manning situation. Normally, you gotta make O4 to stay in to 20. There's a 36 series AFI that discusses these things, if you're interested...

[Guest Crew Report]

The rest of the story: folks twice deferred for promotion (2 times non-select) SOMETIMES get offered "selective continuation." instead of involuntary separation. Depends on your AFSC and the current manning situation. Normally, you gotta make O4 to stay in to 20. There's a 36 series AFI that discusses these things, if you're interested...

Which is what happened to him. During his time we went to war a few times and he's a pilot, so he got offered "selective continuation" every year after his two first looks for O-4. Now if you're a Personnel Officer or Comm Officer, that probably won't happen to you. If an Officer declines selective continuation if they have been passed over then a date of separation is created and they have to separate.

[HuggyU2]

but not probable

There is a former U-2 pilot somewhere out there who is an O-3 approaching 20 years.

Whatever caused his problem which resulted in not making O-4 occured before he came to the U-2.

Edited November 27, 2010 by Huggyu2

[Guest Hueypilot812]

I know of a few guys who got offered selective continuation as O-3s. But I also know just as many that were separated within a year of getting passed over for the second time. To give yourself a 99% chance of making 20, you gotta make O-4. Even that's not a guarantee, but in my experience the AF almost always offers continuation for O-4s, but only about 50% of the time (or less) do they offer it for O-3s.

[ClearedHot]

It's possible, don't do SOS.

Don't fuck with the system these days. Too many people are staying and they are looking for reasons to get rid of folks. Hats off to anyone who wants to fly their entire career, but don't cut off your nose to spite your face and end up unemployed.

[Butters]

Don't fuck with the system these days. Too many people are staying and they are looking for reasons to get rid of folks. Hats off to anyone who wants to fly their entire career, but don't cut off your nose to spite your face and end up unemployed.

2

If you want to make O-5 and fly your entire career it can be done. I just made O-5 and have spent only 12 months out of the cockpit. If you do your PME early and get the masters done, I have found the "leadership" will pretty much let you do whatever you want.

Beging good looking and an FSU grad doesn't hurt either..

Also, we have a O-5 with a little over 25 being forced to retire... he wanted to stay in and they said no because he did not do AWC.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Butters

[Karl Hungus]

Here's a good poll: Who here would retire as an O-4/5 if you could fly/instruct the entire time?

That's the thing though- even if such a career path existed and could be counted upon to exist your entire career (all those early 2000 year group guys happy that you were told you didn't need a masters, only to be told otherwise a few years later...), it wouldn't stop a lot of the things that force people out. Are they going to make the "careerist" path folks do all the day-to-day gheyness that plagues active duty while the "flyer-only" folks don't? Yeah, right. You'd still be on the hook for Warrior Runs, group PT, exec jobs, blowing some self-important dipshit General on his base visit, Blues on Monday, and planning Holiday parties (don't you dare call it Christmas) that you don't give a shit about, all while being looked down upon for not being a "team player" and only a "flyer". Sounds great on paper, but we know this simply won't happen.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

That's the thing though- even if such a career path existed and could be counted upon to exist your entire career (all those early 2000 year group guys happy that you were told you didn't need a masters, only to be told otherwise a few years later...), it wouldn't stop a lot of the things that force people out. Are they going to make the "careerist" path folks do all the day-to-day gheyness that plagues active duty while the "flyer-only" folks don't? Yeah, right. You'd still be on the hook for Warrior Runs, group PT, exec jobs, blowing some self-important dipshit General on his base visit, Blues on Monday, and planning Holiday parties (don't you dare call it Christmas) that you don't give a shit about, all while being looked down upon for not being a "team player" and only a "flyer". Sounds great on paper, but we know this simply won't happen.

They do have people who are exempt from most of the leadership and "work" and are devoted to nothing but a career of flying-- they're called warrant officers. Yes we're flyers; HOWEVER, we're still officers, and by definition leaders who will from time to be time be tasked to act and work accordingly, whether it sucks or not. So as much as you might want to throw the heisman to the flight commander or exec job, by the rank you choose to wear you are expected to do that job.

[Karl Hungus]

They do have people who are exempt from most of the leadership and "work" and are devoted to nothing but a career of flying-- they're called warrant officers. Yes we're flyers; HOWEVER, we're still officers, and by definition leaders who will from time to be time be tasked to act and work accordingly, whether it sucks or not. So as much as you might want to throw the heisman to the flight commander or exec job, by the rank you choose to wear you are expected to do that job.

"Time to time be tasked to act and work accordingly" would be fine. However, it's not time to time, it's constantly, and I'd argue it's meaningless jobs that have nothing to do with being an officer or an aviator.

The original question was if people would choose a "flying-only" career path. I say yes, in theory, but in reality Big Blue would ###### it up and it would be anything but flying only.

[GoAround]

Beging good looking and an FSU grad doesn't hurt either..

An FSU degree is somewhere between a GED and a diploma from ITT.

[ClearedHot]

Beging good looking and an FSU grad doesn't hurt either..

Him good learn...freaking state school grads.

[Guest]

The RAF had a fly only track. Don't know if they still do or not. Most of the guys I met who chose that track would not have been good commanders.

I was told the reason the RAF had a fly till you die track was primarily financial. They didn't have a way to maintain access to their investment like the USAF does with the ARC.

[Butters]

Him good learn...freaking state school grads.

It don't make no difference, you know what I mean. Miami grads don't read too good nohow.

[Kaman]

It was obviously a lot different in my Dad's day...He entered the military in January 1942, and retired in 1970 as a Major. He spent the vast majority of his time in various flying assignments and had over 8,000 hours of flying time in aircraft ranging from the PT-13, B-24 in WWII, SA-16 and H-19 in Korea and C-123s in Viet Nam. Ironically, he was in the first C-130 squadron in PACAF, but wound up flying the C-123 for his Viet Nam tour. He also never completed college, and only thru the GI bill later did he finally get his diploma. The only major ground assignment he held was in manpower management at ADC HQ. He was set to retire, and was "asked" if he'd go to Viet Nam. His squadron was a mixture of newly-minted 2nd/1st Lts right out of UPT and a pretty sizable group of Majors that had a wide variety of backgrounds, including pilots that flew fighters. After Viet Nam my Dad spent his last two years flying the EC-121H at Otis AFB and the day the 551st AEW&C Wing deactivated, my Dad retired. I was only 10, but I remember that they had a large parade and my Dad was one of the reviewing officers. Do they still do parades in the USAF?