Red Flag Cancelled

[Prozac]

Bergman, I just left AMC for AETC, so forgive my ignorance, but are you saying that we will no longer see you guys volunteering for AOR rotations due to AMC's funding issues? I can say all in the AD tanker community appreciate that participation whether they know it or not. Even if all you can give us is 30 or 45 days, that's 30 or 45 less day some AD crew dog will have to be on the road (and frees him up to work 14 hour days getting ready for the next inspection/exercise/etc/etc, but that's another story).

[Right Seat Driver]

Bergman,

I think guys pissing and moaning about Guard/Reserve help are going to change their tune very quickly. I love getting Guard/Reserve help and never understood why some other AD guys out there would turn it away and/or complain about it. Give me a f*cking break. About a year or so ago some AD Tanker types wanted to start turning away help from you guys and let AD pick up the rest of the lines. People instantly started pushing against that, and I, along with others made the argument that once your burn that bridge you are screwed. People need to also look at the experience factor, there are part-time guys out there with more time in the -135 than I have living. To deny that experience level to share with the younger AD crews is detrimental.

It is true that the Guard and Reserve get some good deals? I guess, but I always looked at it this way. How can AD guys cover TDYs to Guam, Puerto Rico, insert nice location here when the majority of AD crews are in the sandbox? If I am not in the sandbox I am TDY. So, when push comes to shove, share the wealth with the Guard and Reserve bubbas and let me drink a beer other than during my PMCR and having to turn directly into another trip. Bottom-line, being on the road is being on the road.

I love the Tanker and the mission, it is a lot of fun and I wouldn't want to do anything else in the world. However, it is easy to get tired. I say share the wealth with whoever wants a piece of it. But that requires different pots of money...

[StoleIt]

Any idea how this will go over in associate units?

Since they are technically guard/reserve jets...

[Bergman]

are you saying that we will no longer see you guys volunteering for AOR rotations due to AMC's funding issues?

That is exactly what I am saying. All volunteer deployments were canceled beginning 1 Nov 10.

I can say all in the AD tanker community appreciate that participation whether they know it or not. Even if all you can give us is 30 or 45 days, that's 30 or 45 less day some AD crew dog will have to be on the road (and frees him up to work 14 hour days getting ready for the next inspection/exercise/etc/etc, but that's another story).

Thanks! I volunteer because I actually think the ANG should do more and want to do my part. Having said that, even I was surprised by the PM hate mail I received from my post. Apparently several of your AD bros don't care much for the 90-120 per year I (and many of my ANG coworkers) contribute each year.

Can't please everyone, I guess.

[Guest]

Having said that, even I was surprised by the PM hate mail I received from my post.

PM hate mail is so fucking lame. And cowardly.

You can always count on douchemanlike conduct when an AD/ARC conversation starts.

Unfortunately, it goes both directions. Not too many people understand both AD and ARC very well and even fewer can be objective.

BL, funding cuts are going to hurt everyone. The answer is to provide as much mutual support to each other as possible...or fight internally if you think that will help.

Technique only.

[afthunderchief16]

I'm on the road currently, so I can't provide documentation for this right now...but there is NO WAY they are flying '55s any more. There weren't that many made in '55 the first place, and as someone else has previously stated, they are all retired now anyway. IIRC '57 is the first year to have R-model engines, and Lincoln only has R-models. I'll post a reference when I get home and can find the exact tail number data.

Ya, I was mistaken.

I thought that one of my cousins that works at the 155th had mentioned they had older but I checked with him and their oldest is a '57.

[Bergman]

Ya, I was mistaken.

I thought that one of my cousins that works at the 155th had mentioned they had older but I checked with him and their oldest is a '57.

Shit happens.

I will still look up that tail number data when I get home if for no other reason than I am a tanker nerd and would like to know.

[HookEmAll]

For now, ANG/AFRC deployment help does not apply to associate units in the tanker. Who knows when that will change. If it does, it will likely be the day I get two days notice I'm deploying.

[Prosuper]

Shit happens.

I will still look up that tail number data when I get home if for no other reason than I am a tanker nerd and would like to know.

Here is a link that you can look up any tail number.

https://users.rcn.com/jeremy.k/serialSearch.html

[jcj]

Here is a link that you can look up any tail number.

https://users.rcn.com/jeremy.k/serialSearch.html

This guy (Joe Baugher) has a interesting set of web pages with a bunch of information

"Curtiss B-2 Condor - Twin-engined biplane bomber. Two Curtiss V-1570 liquid-cooled engines. 12 built"

Less stealth, but didn't require its own "dock"

[broncoflyer05]

Hook 'em all, just for clarification, Guard units that have an associate unit are able to send there Guard pilots/booms on voluntary TDYs? I guess my confusion comes from this being a cost savings initiative. Even if they are an associate unit, the Guard is still out zero dollars and AMC is footing the bill for them to go right?

[HookEmAll]

Hook 'em all, just for clarification, Guard units that have an associate unit are able to send there Guard pilots/booms on voluntary TDYs? I guess my confusion comes from this being a cost savings initiative. Even if they are an associate unit, the Guard is still out zero dollars and AMC is footing the bill for them to go right?

It sounds counter intuitive, but if the AD squadron has a deployment tasking, then the host ANG unit can volunteer to deploy on our tasked lines. I guess this may cost more money, but it's the way it is for now. I suppose having to deal with AD bs can sometimes have its benefits for the guard.

[flyerpapa]

It sounds counter intuitive, but if the AD squadron has a deployment tasking, then the host ANG unit can volunteer to deploy on our tasked lines. I guess this may cost more money, but it's the way it is for now. I suppose having to deal with AD bs can sometimes have its benefits for the guard.

Well, how is it going to work out for Guard units where the HOST is AD, e.g. Fairchild AFB where the 92 ARW (AD) is host to the 142 ARW (ANG)?

(What kind of fluster cluck machine has BRAC, TFI and its spawn wrought?)

[Guest Crew Report]

Well, how is it going to work out for Guard units where the HOST is AD, e.g. Fairchild AFB where the 92 ARW (AD) is host to the 142 ARW (ANG)?

(What kind of fluster cluck machine has BRAC, TFI and its spawn wrought?)

The Washington ANG had their Wing King, Vice, and I think OG "forced retired" this summer due to lack of TFI. The new Wing King is pretty awesome, he's an Eagle guy from Klamath Falls.

[Bergman]

Guard units that have an associate unit are able to send there Guard pilots/booms on voluntary TDYs?

Until last month, crewdogs from ANY guard unit could volunteer to pick up an AD deployment line.

the Guard is still out zero dollars and AMC is footing the bill for them to go right?

That is correct, up until 1 Oct 10...when AMC stopped paying the bill. Thus, no more ANG/AFRC help to the AD because the funding stream was cut off.

The ANG will still pick up its normal AEF tasking (we can argue about whether that is "their fair share" in another topic) but beyond that, in my experience, roughly 20% of the deployed KC-135 crews were additional volunteers from the reserve components. The AD used to have a gigantic pile of MPA days that they were using to bring us on board to keep their folks home. Now that the volunteerism is done, the AD will be back to doing all of the deployment lines.

[flyerpapa]

The new Wing King is pretty awesome, he's an Eagle guy from Klamath Falls.

Yeap, I've met him and have heard nothing but good of him. But, what does that have to do with the guard losing man days and missions? When AD is the host to a Guard uint without iron, it makes for a hard row to plow, particulary so with shrinking budget, tasking, etc.

[lloyd christmas]

Does the policy of not letting ANG/AFRC people deploy with the AD apply to just KC-135 folks? We are getting conflicting rumors here in the 130 community.

[Guest Crew Report]

Yeap, I've met him and have heard nothing but good of him. But, what does that have to do with the guard losing man days and missions? When AD is the host to a Guard uint without iron, it makes for a hard row to plow, particulary so with shrinking budget, tasking, etc.

If you're an ANG unit, lose your iron to another unit, and told you'll do TFI with the AD unit at that base. You should probably shut up, color, and do it. Most of the Technicians and AGR's that were prior Active Duty were great to work with and had little to no issues working with the AD unit. The Guard "babies" and traditionalists were some of the biggest whiners about working with the AD. They were lucky to still be a Guard unit with no tankers left. Look at Portland when they lost theirs, then they went away in a BRAC.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Crew Report

[TacAirCoug]

Does the policy of not letting ANG/AFRC people deploy with the AD apply to just KC-135 folks? We are getting conflicting rumors here in the 130 community.

As I understand it, the MPA days are gone for all airframes. You'll get your AEF bucket to fill, or you can whore yourself out to other ARC units to help fill their buckets, but you won't be filling any AD spots any time soon.

[BigFreddie]

As I understand it, the MPA days are gone for all airframes. You'll get your AEF bucket to fill, or you can whore yourself out to other ARC units to help fill their buckets, but you won't be filling any AD spots any time soon.

I believe you are correct - the AD guys at my base (airlift, not refueling wing) are very, very busy because there is no Reserve help available because there are currently no man days to be had...

BF

[Prosuper]

If you're an ANG unit, lose your iron to another unit, and told you'll do TFI with the AD unit at that base. You should probably shut up, color, and do it. Most of the Technicians and AGR's that were prior Active Duty were great to work with and had little to no issues working with the AD unit. The Guard "babies" and traditionalists were some of the biggest whiners about working with the AD. They were lucky to still be a Guard unit with no tankers left. Look at Portland when they lost theirs, then they went away in a BRAC.

Not up on this acronym "TFI"?

[Herk Driver]

Not up on this acronym "TFI"?

Total Force Integration

[lloyd christmas]

The word I got from our Log Plans folks is that there are days for rotations supporting the war effort. There are not days supporting channel missions, exercises, student training, etc...

[Bergman]

The word I got from our Log Plans folks is that there are days for rotations supporting the war effort. There are not days supporting channel missions, exercises, student training, etc...

That would be good news. The AOR is where the important work is anyway. Sign me up.

[Right Seat Driver]

The word I got from our Log Plans folks is that there are days for rotations supporting the war effort. There are not days supporting channel missions, exercises, student training, etc...

That would make sense...