10 Year commitment

[GovernmentMan]

Hahaha, it's funny because it was in a mine field. Also, how can you run off the runway, if you never actually touch the runway.

Mine field? Are you sure they weren't just a bunch of tuna cans?

[Pancake]

Good point. During my brief stint in the major airlines, I did ~150 days to places like Allentown, Omaha, La Guardia, Greensboro...

Better than the desert... but, whether it's good or bad, you are still gone from home.

Sounds like you flew for Airtran?

[Buddy Spike]

What is TFI?

A horrible initiative to turn the ARC into Active Duty so that there is no escape from Big Blue's ultimate gayness.

[HuggyU2]

Sounds like you flew for Airtran?

UAL

[BFM this]

Zing!

[scoobs]

Can you post some reasons why your getting out? Is mainly due to family and time away from home? With the current condition of the economy and lack of flying jobs it doesn't seem right. Or is flying for the big blue just to much of a hassle? I understand that every job has it problems. Seems like a lot of people are trying to get in and a lot trying to get out. What are your you going to be doing once your done with the AF?

[nrodgsxr]

Can you post some reasons why your getting out? Is mainly due to family and time away from home? With the current condition of the economy and lack of flying jobs it doesn't seem right. Or is flying for the big blue just to much of a hassle? I understand that every job has it problems. Seems like a lot of people are trying to get in and a lot trying to get out. What are your you going to be doing once your done with the AF?

I'd love to join a guard/reserve unit... figure out how to pay the bills when I get to that crossroad. There's always a job out there to the dedicated/resourceful even in a bad economy.

[scoobs]

I'd love to join a guard/reserve unit... figure out how to pay the bills when I get to that crossroad. There's always a job out there to the dedicated/resourceful even in a bad economy.

Is it really better to wait tables just to fly fighters in the guard? I understand that you can find a job but is it really better the AD? At least with a heavy unit you can try and bum and make a living.

[matmacwc]

Is it really better to wait tables just to fly fighters in the guard? I understand that you can find a job but is it really better the AD? At least with a heavy unit you can try and bum and make a living.

Must not be a fighter pilot.

Edited November 27, 2010 by matmacwc

[nrodgsxr]

Must not be a fighter pilot.

nope

[Vprdrvr69]

This poll certainly got my attention. I have been polling and theorizing about this for years. I have concluded there must be a stop loss on pilots in about 3-4 years, as too many folks have already punched (mentally) and are just waiting for the ADSC to expire. When I was a punk, I was one of the most dedicated, here for 20 no way about it types. The way things are going, I am in the "depends on my next assignment category" as well. If I end up at Cannon divorced, alone and flying Predators- I'm done! I had a life and career on the outside and fully understand the "real world"; things are different and not handed to you on a platter- it is what you make of it for better or worse. No guarantees, no reflective belts and no safety net. The big thing the poll points out is the "depends category" and the fact that 40% are leaning that way. What is the trend for next assignments guys? Shitty assignments with even shittier locations, coupled with an extra serving of long deployments, stress and bullshit! Now, take away some incentives like ACP. See where that gets us... I read this poll as 40-80% are leaning towards telling AD to pound sand when the 10 year ADSC is up. Leadership, pay attention.

[matmacwc]

This poll certainly got my attention. I have been polling and theorizing about this for years. I have concluded there must be a stop loss on pilots in about 3-4 years, as too many folks have already punched (mentally) and are just waiting for the ADSC to expire. When I was a punk, I was one of the most dedicated, here for 20 no way about it types. The way things are going, I am in the "depends on my next assignment category" as well. If I end up at Cannon divorced, alone and flying Predators- I'm done! I had a life and career on the outside and fully understand the "real world"; things are different and not handed to you on a platter- it is what you make of it for better or worse. No guarantees, no reflective belts and no safety net. The big thing the poll points out is the "depends category" and the fact that 40% are leaning that way. What is the trend for next assignments guys? Shitty assignments with even shittier locations, coupled with an extra serving of long deployments, stress and bullshit! Now, take away some incentives like ACP. See where that gets us... I read this poll as 40-80% are leaning towards telling AD to pound sand when the 10 year ADSC is up. Leadership, pay attention.

Not speaking from experience but.....get out before the divorce, its probably cheaper. The trend for next assignment? I can tell you, alpha to alpha if not a current fighter dude, congrats, you a perennial bill payer. Oh yeah, I think stop loss is around CY2011.

Edited November 29, 2010 by matmacwc

[Chuck17]

There is no longer any doubt in my mind that there will be a stop-loss in the next 2 years, right as I am primed to hit the ADSC. No bonus. Indentured servitude in on the horizon gents. Id keep hacking away at your masters and the PME if I were you.

I sat next to a Delta exec on the way down to Orlando a few weeks ago. 1000 pilots. Thats what Delta alone is hiring starting in 16 months. No shit. "Got USAF Multi-engine jet time? Know how to cross the North Atlantic? Been around the world? Youre hired... Telephone interview. We dont need a resume, just send us your SURF. And Im not talking Delta Connection flying RJs - You'll fly for the major - for Delta." - that was this dude's exact quote. (They know about SURFs?)

Bottomline is this - the airlines are going into panic mode with the amount of dudes they have to replace due to mandatory retirement age and the new rules for crewrest from the FAA. You may make a little less, but you'll have a job.

More: UPS and FedEX - 400 pilots each.

All of this starts in 2012. Good luck dudes. The grass is always greener, but be ready to be stop-loss'd.

Chuck

[Pancake]

I read this poll as 40-80% are leaning towards telling AD to pound sand when the 10 year ADSC is up. Leadership, pay attention.

Lots of good points, but it's important to also recognize the poll sample is likely skewed towards negative responses-I don't see too many threads on BO.net about the positive aspects of the Air Force. However, I don't think historical data (which has been trending towards lower retention rates) is a viable indicator either. Stop loss? It's one thing to stop-loss 4-year enlistees, but stop-lossing career officers may have a seriously negative impact on recruitment of future officers... very dangerous QOL policy that makes the Guard (or not serving) much more attractive than AD.

If Big Blue plans on playing the "bad economy" card to keep pilots in, they may be in for a surprise. It's not that bad, especially if you have a "usable" master's or plan on going to the airlines. I'm interested in reading the next ACP. Will we get one? How much? Is $25,000/year worth sacrificing significant control of future assignments?

IMO, the answer to the AF's problems is cultural change that favors the biggest stakeholders. If you want to keep the people you spend the most $$ training, treat them like they're the most valuable part of the team. All successful businesses/teams practice this form of retention. So should the AF.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Pancake

[Tank]

There is no longer any doubt in my mind that there will be a stop-loss in the next 2 years, right as I am primed to hit the ADSC. No bonus. Indentured servitude in on the horizon gents. Id keep hacking away at your masters and the PME if I were you.

I sat next to a Delta exec on the way down to Orlando a few weeks ago. 1000 pilots. Thats what Delta alone is hiring starting in 16 months. No shit. "Got USAF Multi-engine jet time? Know how to cross the North Atlantic? Been around the world? Youre hired... Telephone interview. We dont need a resume, just send us your SURF. And Im not talking Delta Connection flying RJs - You'll fly for the major - for Delta." - that was this dude's exact quote. (They know about SURFs?)

Bottomline is this - the airlines are going into panic mode with the amount of dudes they have to replace due to mandatory retirement age and the new rules for crewrest from the FAA. You may make a little less, but you'll have a job.

More: UPS and FedEX - 400 pilots each.

All of this starts in 2012. Good luck dudes. The grass is always greener, but be ready to be stop-loss'd.

Chuck

Shoot me now if I get stop lossed!

[nsplayr]

Sh*t man, where's the nav bonus? Only rated field without one right now as far as I know...not sure if it would change my mind when decision time rolls around but it certainly wouldn't hurt retention.

[Guest Crew Report]

Why would they give a bonus to a careerfield they are downsizing?

[nsplayr]

Why would they give a bonus to a careerfield they are downsizing?

Cause I want my damn money man! I'm sure they don't need it for retention, but those ABM homos get one and I'm jealous...

[pawnman]

Why would they give a bonus to a careerfield they are downsizing?

It's amazing how they are downsizing it, yet every BONE squadron is so short on WSOs we have to borrow bodies to make up a deployable squadron.

[Guest Crew Report]

It's amazing how they are downsizing it, yet every BONE squadron is so short on WSOs we have to borrow bodies to make up a deployable squadron.

Ok, so what about the newer aircraft eliminating Navs as a whole?

[Karl Hungus]

If Big Blue plans on playing the "bad economy" card to keep pilots in, they may be in for a surprise. It's not that bad, especially if you have a "usable" master's or plan on going to the airlines. I'm interested in reading the next ACP. Will we get one? How much? Is $25,000/year worth sacrificing significant control of future assignments?

IMO, the answer to the AF's problems is cultural change that favors the biggest stakeholders. If you want to keep the people you spend the most $$ training, treat them like they're the most valuable part of the team. All successful businesses/teams practice this form of retention. So should the AF.

The bonus has been at $25k for how long? The mid 90s? $25k in 1995 is a hell of a lot more enticing than in 2010+. The ability to have a say in what I do, when I do it, and where I do it is easily worth $25k (more like $18k after taxes). But to each their own.

I'm not convinced there will be a stop-loss in the 2011-12 timeframe, mainly because Big Blue is too incompetent to react that quickly. But after that, it's on.

[sky_king]

If they stop loss me after ten years, I may just have to decide that I'm gay.

[Karl Hungus]

If they stop loss me after ten years, I may just have to decide that I'm gay.

Stop-loss: lots of newly homosexual officers who fail PT tests and are non-flyable/ non-deployable due to weird, hard to diagnose illnesses and allergies.

[Learjetter]

Stop-loss: lots of newly homosexual officers who fail PT tests and are non-flyable/ non-deployable due to weird, hard to diagnose illnesses and allergies.

Just pick one and stick with it...first gay and fat and DNIF pilot probably gets court martialled publically as a malingerer...so just pick one and stick with it: my buddy's plan is "OPERATION Bon Bon".

[matmacwc]

Just pick one and stick with it...first gay and fat and DNIF pilot probably gets court martialled publically as a malingerer...so just pick one and stick with it: my buddy's plan is "OPERATION Bon Bon".

The other one can be "Operation Eagle"

Edited November 30, 2010 by matmacwc