Military retirement under attack

[spaw2001]

Yeah, I get your point hacker. I was trying to tread lightly with the UPT comment because I know it is a volunteer program. The fundamental problem with long term contracts is they are marathons but the AF treats them like a sprint. In essence, in order to keep sanity for the long term, pilots simply have to balance life with Air Force demands. Unfortunately, the service doesn't see it this way. They see us as stick actuators available for missions and sustained ops for the entire duration of the flying commitment. This may work with shorter ADSCs or in a recruitment force such as the Army. The Air Force, however, is a sustainment force...Right now, they seem to simply rely on the fact that we will just stay in because our commitment takes us roughly to the 12 year point. This is much different than retaining highly trained folks based on job satisfaction and a balanced approach with regards to ops tempo and having a life during the best years of our lives. And yes, I would turn around before hitting Bagram airspace with no TCAS. That place went from awesome to flying into a Western Asia LAX in a few short years

Edited August 1, 2011 by spaw2001

[Skitzo]

TCAS was very handy for me to avoid some Mudhens that decided to completely ignore a vector and attempt to rejoin into me in the wild west.

[BFM this]

It's ok. They had radar SA.

[GoAround]

That place went from awesome to flying into a Western Asia LAX in a few short years

No way is it even close to SoCal approach! Besides a bunch of commercial traffic, it's filled with crazy blue hairs.

[Muscle2002]

Mudhens that decided to completely ignore a vector

It was terrain avoidance...I honestly think those controllers were secretly aligned with the Taliban given the number of times they tried to vector us into terrain or give a 25 degree descent from the FAF in the WX at night.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Muscle2002

[matmacwc]

Yeah, I get your point hacker. I was trying to tread lightly with the UPT comment because I know it is a volunteer program. The fundamental problem with long term contracts is they are marathons but the AF treats them like a sprint. In essence, in order to keep sanity for the long term, pilots simply have to balance life with Air Force demands. Unfortunately, the service doesn't see it this way. They see us as stick actuators available for missions and sustained ops for the entire duration of the flying commitment. This may work with shorter ADSCs or in a recruitment force such as the Army. The Air Force, however, is a sustainment force...Right now, they seem to simply rely on the fact that we will just stay in because our commitment takes us roughly to the 12 year point. This is much different than retaining highly trained folks based on job satisfaction and a balanced approach with regards to ops tempo and having a life during the best years of our lives. And yes, I would turn around before hitting Bagram airspace with no TCAS. That place went from awesome to flying into a Western Asia LAX in a few short years

Huh? What? VSP/RIF/SERB? This is one non-current 11F that got VSP, they ain't keeping us all.

[Hacker]

Some of us are flying in slow airplanes with very limited visibility at night. So yes, I am watching the TCAS closely. It has saved my life on multiple occasions this deployment.

Dear God, how did ANYONE ever keep from having a midair before TCAS?

To hear some dudes talk, it's like every single airliner that ever took to the skies before the advent of it had a fatal midair.

Check twelve, listen to the radio, and follow procedural deconfliction. It's worked for decades.

[Guest Crew Report]

Wait, what? Do you really believe that? TCAS has saved your life on multiple occasions?

You need someone to teach you some techniques for building and maintaining SA without that thing because you self-admit that without it you would be dead, and that is a real problem.

Copy, you've never flown a heavy. Noted.

[BFM this]

Copy, you've never flown a heavy. Noted.

Neither have you. Noted.

[Guest Crew Report]

Neither have you. Noted.

Zing! You think of that while in your Pred trailer?

[LL Windshear]

Retirement pay.

Aaaannndddd....go!

[guineapigfury]

Copy, you've never flown a heavy. Noted.

Thanks for the backup Crew Report. It wasn't my intention to start a squabble here. If anyone has any "SA building techniques" for detecting aircraft climbing up directly underneath my airplane or zooming up my 6 at 300+ knots without talking to anyone on the radio, I'm all ears.

[MechGov]

The problem is that big blue isn't always sqwuaking or talking to anyone on the radio. Kinda like a pred hanging out over final.

But seriously, I highly doubt there will be any change to retirement without a grandfather clause. I just can't imagine them legally getting away with it. And if they do, well, that will simplyfy my decision making after my ADSC is up in 2019 (fvck!).

[busdriver]

The problem with BAF is the complete incompetence of the approach controllers and lunatic Russians that do whatever the hell they want. The tower guys weren't too bad, but in all honesty I think we'd be better off with a CTAF type procedural approach control.

[Guest]

Here's a better tip from UPT: fly your own damn airplane, and let me fly mine.

Am I missing something here?

That's a tip you got at UPT? Where the fuck did you go to UPT?

You're saying you were taught to blow everyone off in the pattern and just fly "your own damn airplane?"

Building a mind's eye picture of where everyone is and where they're going to be is one of the most important things they try to teach at UPT. It's the cornerstone of SA. It is what keeps you alive in peacetime and combat.

Maybe you got confused by something a sim instructor told you about the sim and thought it applied to real airplanes, too.

Zing! You think of that while in your Pred trailer?

I don't know where he was but I do know he thought it at the exact same time as every other pilot who read it.

Thanks for the backup Crew Report.

He's your backup?

It wasn't my intention to start a squabble here. If anyone has any "SA building techniques" for detecting aircraft climbing up directly underneath my airplane or zooming up my 6 at 300+ knots without talking to anyone on the radio, I'm all ears.

Really? Sounds like you're aware of them to me. What to do about it in the air each and every time? Well, if that's a real problem than there's probably no one here who can help you with that...not even the mighty crew report.

The current retirement system is safe but it will likely get kicked around a bit until the economy improves...in ten years or so.

[PirateAF]

Rainman: people have a valid point that TCAS is an SA mitigator. Just because us "Herbs" have grown accustomed to using it to augment our SA in ridiculous places doesn't mean we're incompetent pilots who don't clear ahead of the airplane, listen to the radios, or work out the next 5-10 minutes of the airspace.

You're really coming off like a patronizing know-it-all. I think that's what Joe was saying with the UPT remark.

But you've got us dead to rights that Crew Report is a tool.

***

In terms of military retirement, I hope they don't take mine away before I get there. Only 10 years to go!

(edited for grammar)

Edited August 2, 2011 by PirateAF

[Hacker]

Just because us "Herbs" have grown accustomed to using it to augment our SA in ridiculous places doesn't mean we're incompetent pilots who don't clear ahead of the airplane, listen to the radios, or work out the next 5-10 minutes of the airspace.

Enormous continued off-topic discussion:

While I thoroughly believe that there are plenty of pilots out there who are like that, there are unfortunately also a good number who believe that TCAS is your SA and fail to understand that term 'augment' you so perfectly use above.

I would think Rainman was a know-it-all asshole, too, if I hadn't personally observed this kind of 'piloting' myself in the wonderful social experiment/clash of aviation cultures we call the MC-12 program.

[Guest]

Rainman: people have a valid point that TCAS is an SA mitigator. Just because us "Herbs" have grown accustomed to using it to augment our SA in ridiculous places doesn't mean we're incompetent pilots who don't clear ahead of the airplane, listen to the radios, or work out the next 5-10 minutes of the airspace.

I get it. I really do. The tool is SA enhancing and a good thing. The same kind of craniums inside the cockpit drool cup shit is happening in the A-10C. The danger is that moving from reference to dependence can render a pilot less competent...not incomepetent, but less is worse than more when you're talking about competence.

You're really coming off like a patronizing know-it-all. I think that's what Joe was saying with the UPT remark.

That was intentional for effect. You are checking in to see if I really think heavy pilots are incompetent TCAS junkies, which I absolutely do not. Joe's remark was stupid and would've been stupid no matter who said it. I was just pointing that out.

But you've got us dead to rights that Crew Report is a tool.

I don't think he speaks for any community as a whole...and I can see you guys flinch when he says something dumb.

Every community has a few guys that can't keep their mouths shut and they end up getting the whole crew tossed out of the strip joint just as the Saturday night starting line-up is hitting the stage.

I would think Rainman was a know-it-all asshole, too, if I hadn't personally observed this kind of 'piloting' myself in the wonderful social experiment/clash of aviation cultures we call the MC-12 program.

Hey, fuck you Hacker...you're the one really poking these guys in the eye.

I'm just a high speed cheerleader in this fight.

[Hacker]

Hey, fuck you Hacker...you're the one really poking these guys in the eye.

I'm just a high speed cheerleader in this fight.

Sarcasm detector inop again, eh?

Of course, you should be self-aware and proud of being a know-it-all asshole -- I am!

[Guest]

Sarcasm detector inop again, eh?

Nope, but yours seems to be. Check switches, bitch!

Of course, you should be self-aware and proud of being a know-it-all asshole -- I am!

Agreed. I remain full up.

[Beaver]

You silverbacks need something constructive to do.

[matmacwc]

The one thing I liked at DLF was seeing the herbs to a flyup while we were perfectly legal in the MARSA pattern next door, clowns.

[Hacker]

You silverbacks need something constructive to do.

I find sitting around here and screaming the USAF equivalent of "you kids get off my lawn!" incredibly constructive.

I just can't wait for that first day when I can go to the Commissary as a retiree and buy 3 shopping carts full of carton cigarettes. Then I'll know I've really made it!

[busdriver]

I just can't wait for that first day when I can go to the Commissary

And shuffle up and down the isles at the pace of a snail in line abreast formation with your wife.

[BitteEinBit]

I get it. I really do. The tool is SA enhancing and a good thing. The same kind of craniums inside the cockpit drool cup shit is happening in the A-10C. The danger is that moving from reference to dependence can render a pilot less competent...not incomepetent, but less is worse than more when you're talking about competence.

I think the flying incompetence has a little more to do with the fact that the AF makes you focus more on PME and AAD rather than flying. Some of those really smart low-flying-time PME/AAD guys need all the additional SA TCAS can provide.

Yes, our pilots are becoming a little more lazy and a little too dependent on technology instead of using it as an enhancement tool. It will only get worse as long as we continue to make rated officers focus on the wrong shit at the wrong time.

But to stay on point...it isn't about being the best, most competent pilot anymore, but rather making sure you check those PME/AAD boxes so we don't get RIFd and we can make it to retirement before they change it...