PapaJu Posted May 3, 2007 Posted May 3, 2007 Someone on another board I post on said he's a Guard weapons loader and claimed to have loaded two-seat Vipers for combat operations. I was a bit skeptical since I was pretty sure that they didn't use those in combat; however, I'm in no position to call BS. Can anyone clarify? Thanks.
schokie Posted May 4, 2007 Posted May 4, 2007 I'm not sure if the original question was about only US Vipers but I know Singapore uses 2-seat Vipers as a combat aircraft. They put a WSO in the backseat and use it like a mini Strike Eagle. Unknown if these things have seen combat time.
Steve Davies Posted May 4, 2007 Posted May 4, 2007 I'm not sure if the original question was about only US Vipers but I know Singapore uses 2-seat Vipers as a combat aircraft. They put a WSO in the backseat and use it like a mini Strike Eagle. Unknown if these things have seen combat time. Not to forget the Israelis, who have the B and D models crewed with a pilot and a nav, and have been dropping bombs and shooting down MiGs since they bought them. And then there's the SEAD/DEAD Sufa (I-model), with a dedicated nav. As for US two-seat Vipers in combat, there are plenty of pictures out there of them on combat operations, so the BS flag is almost certainly not warranted.
Guest turtle Posted May 5, 2007 Posted May 5, 2007 To my knowledge the (US) D-model is not currently certified for combat.
Guest Gumps Posted July 23, 2008 Posted July 23, 2008 What would be your first choice of Viper base and why? Assignments to drop at Luke soon, need inputs. Thanks! Gumps
TAMInated Posted July 24, 2008 Posted July 24, 2008 (edited) There aren't really any viper bases that are that bad now that there aren't any jets at Cannon. I would go to Aviano. Italy is awesome, great TDYs, living/travelling in Europe is a once in a lifetime experience for most. I would also try to go to the ROK since it should give you an extra year in the jet, although nothing is guaranteed. Can't speak for the rest of the bases since I haven't been to any. Edited July 24, 2008 by TAMInated
ViperStud Posted July 24, 2008 Posted July 24, 2008 Shaw = dirty south. If you are a southern boy you'll probably like it. If not it will probably drive you crazy. Sumter sucks unless you are married so if you are single you want to at least consider living in Columbia which buys you a 30-50 minute commute depending on where in town you live. Score some points for flying the block 50, but lose even more for being in SEC country (a backwards place where people actually think USC stands for the state school, not the real USC). The airspace sucks too plus you'll be the only AD unit in the country pulling full time alert, which leads to some bad deals. Isn't homeland defense the reason for the ANG? Politics and egos suck... Hill is in an awesome area and you'll love the place if you are an outdoors person. Skiing and snowboarding are close by in the winter and the rest of the time you've got great terrain for hiking and mountain biking. You can't beat the airspace. You will drop more at Hill than anywhere else and there are always ground pounders to work with in the UTTR. Your bros will be TDY there all the time for WSEP. Downside: I don't care what anyone says, the mormon thing gets a little wierd after a while. If you've been there you'll know what I mean. Spang/Aviano = the number 1/2 choice for most people for all the reasons stated above. Living in Europe is awesome and your quality of life (if you are a traveler) is great. Add that to the drug deal of getting tax-free just about every month for flying over the Adriatic all the time and Aviano is a nice pull. On the other hand Spang has the block 50, so score some points for Germany. Misawa = Haven't been but I hear mixed reviews. You are pretty far from major civilization I understand, but then again I hear it's cool if you have a companion (read - married). I hear the locals are a mixed bag: some are really cool but you will walk into bars and restaurants where they cross their arms and say "no Americans." Plus side: block 50's. Any Misawa dudes have more info? Korea still sounds like a good deal. You don't know your follow-on right away now, but it's still a Viper tour follow-on. After a year there you won't be experienced so they really need to keep you in the jet. There is something to be said, however, for the fact that you might want to stiff-arm being on a VML for as long as possible considering the recent sh!tstorm that is the fighter assignment process. At Korea you'll move after a year whereas the other tours you're looking at about 2 years, 8 months. Bottom line it depends on what you like, hope that info helps...
Whitman Posted July 24, 2008 Posted July 24, 2008 Korea still sounds like a good deal. You don't know your follow-on right away now, but it's still a Viper tour follow-on. After a year there you won't be experienced so they really need to keep you in the jet. There is something to be said, however, for the fact that you might want to stiff-arm being on a VML for as long as possible considering the recent sh!tstorm that is the fighter assignment process. At Korea you'll move after a year whereas the other tours you're looking at about 2 years, 8 months. Bottom line it depends on what you like, hope that info helps... Knocking out the remote first with the follow-on seems like the way to go, if the follow-on truly was guaranteed. But the adage "a bird in hand, is worth two in the bush", comes to mind. After a year you won't be that experienced so they either need to keep you in the jet OR send you on your way to preds. You're only possibly gaining 1yr in the viper by going to Korea, but risk lossing 2yrs if AFPC continues with their buffoonery. Good luck and I truly hope things work out for you guys.
Guest Gumps Posted July 25, 2008 Posted July 25, 2008 Knocking out the remote first with the follow-on seems like the way to go, if the follow-on truly was guaranteed. But the adage "a bird in hand, is worth two in the bush", comes to mind. After a year you won't be that experienced so they either need to keep you in the jet OR send you on your way to preds. You're only possibly gaining 1yr in the viper by going to Korea, but risk lossing 2yrs if AFPC continues with their buffoonery. Good luck and I truly hope things work out for you guys. I hear ya. However, so far, a Pred has not came from Korea. Just FYI for people reading. Not to say it can't happen...
ViperStud Posted July 25, 2008 Posted July 25, 2008 Not from a first-assignment Korea guy at least. I know at least one person who got Pred out of Korea but it wasn't his first assignment. I'd take career advice from UPT students with a grain of salt. Amen to that. The TAMI guys that got sent to preds from my squadron were right around the same experience level as guys coming right off a Korea tour, so if another TAMI round were to occur, who knows if Korea will be protected. Another intangible that the long tours have is that if you are sh!thot and the timing is right you could go through the IPUG on your first assignment. Being an IP is a good way to stay in the jet because the community needs IPs, plus it keeps you in the running for WIC if that's your thing. One school of thought on Korea is to go early and get it over with; the other is that the earlier you go the sooner you go back. What it all comes down to is that you can't game the system because the rules are always changing. Who knows what kind of flail AFPC will be going through on your next VML. 6 months is long term for those morons, hence the fact that we still don't have a pred pipeline 4-5 years after they've been operational. Think of where you'll be happy next assignment and ask for it. Don't let anyone convince you to "go ugly early" on an ADP to suck up an ALFA tour and get back into a gray jet ASAP. I didn't (against some of the advice I got) and I'm starting my second long tour in the Viper. Think about it, if one dude stiff-arms a bad deal and the other begrudgingly asks for it, who do you think is going to get fooked?
MKopack Posted July 25, 2008 Posted July 25, 2008 (edited) Someone on another board I post on said he's a Guard weapons loader and claimed to have loaded two-seat Vipers for combat operations. I was a bit skeptical since I was pretty sure that they didn't use those in combat; however, I'm in no position to call BS. Can anyone clarify? Thanks. WAY back in 90-91, during Desert Storm, 86-0047 was the only two-seat F-16 to fly combat missions before the cease-fire. She spent the first half of the conflict in the hangar as a CANN bird, but after many requests from our combat camera guys we put her back together and our guys took her up into Kuwait and Iraq loaded with Mk.84 or Mk.82's. I would guess that flying the D would have added an additional complication in mission planning due to the differing fuel capacity (the second cockpit reduces the fuel load in the F1 tank) although probably less so than all the SAM's... For more on Torrejon's 401st TFW(P) the 'Forgotten 1000', and the 614th TFS 'Lucky Devils', the first US military unit to deploy to Qatar, I invite you to visit https://www.lucky-devils.net Mike Kopack ex Lucky Devils Maintainer & very amateur webmaster This is Preston 'Stone' Thompson prior to an early war mission in 87-0227 (early during the war we flew with the 4xAIM-9 configuration). 227 went on to fly 51 missions (40 Code 1) during the 42 days. Edited July 26, 2008 by MKopack
Duster Posted August 12, 2008 Posted August 12, 2008 (edited) What are the steps taken to become an aggressor pilot in the viper? Do you need to be an IP and have x amount of hours in the jet? Also, after your first tour in the viper is it common to go back to luke and instruct or more common to go elsewhere (Preds, UPT IP, ect)? Thanks. Edited August 12, 2008 by double d
Toro Posted August 13, 2008 Posted August 13, 2008 What are the steps taken to become an aggressor pilot in the viper? Do you need to be an IP and have x amount of hours in the jet? Also, after your first tour in the viper is it common to go back to luke and instruct or more common to go elsewhere (Preds, UPT IP, ect)? Thanks. Here's a thread with a little info.
HuggyU2 Posted August 13, 2008 Posted August 13, 2008 We have a U-2 pilot who went to the F-16 Aggressors 3 years ago. We also have a new guy who is in U-2 training who just came from the Nellis Aggressors. If you want more info, p.m. me and I'll get you in touch with one of them.
ViperStud Posted August 13, 2008 Posted August 13, 2008 What are the steps taken to become an aggressor pilot in the viper? Do you need to be an IP and have x amount of hours in the jet? Also, after your first tour in the viper is it common to go back to luke and instruct or more common to go elsewhere (Preds, UPT IP, ect)? Thanks. IP is highly desired but not required to go be an aggressor. From my understanding they will put you through and IPUG there that is heavy on air-air and adversary tactics. The few that I've know that have gone that route were IPs already. Most guys (about 2/3 - 3/4) will do Korea either straight out of the B-course or after their first ops tour. After that most guys will go do something else because there are just far more billets to go fly white jets, be an ALO or fly preds than there are to go to Luke. At Luke, the overwhelming majority of IP's have already been to Korea. It's not rare for someone to go from their first Ops assignment straight to Luke, expceially now that Ops-Ops tours have all but disappeared, but it gets pretty competitive. From what I recall from my VML there were ~20 to Korea, 2-3 Ops-Ops, <20 to Luke, like 40 or so white jets, about 10-15 ALOs and the same number of UAVs. They typically go in about that order too so if you want to stay in the jet you need to be competitive in the rack and stack. These days, anything approaching a good deal is pretty competitive so do everything you can to upgrade early and often on your first assignment.
F16Deuce Posted August 14, 2008 Posted August 14, 2008 Anymore it's a serious possibility that your first Viper assignment may also be your last Viper assignment. If I was doing it today though I'd pick a RoK base with an overseas follow-on to maximize time in the jet. Korea assigments currently do not have follow ons.
Guest Dunce Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 It's not rare for someone to go from their first Ops assignment straight to Luke, expceially now that Ops-Ops tours have all but disappeared, but it gets pretty competitive. From what I recall from my VML there were ~20 to Korea, 2-3 Ops-Ops, <20 to Luke, like 40 or so white jets, about 10-15 ALOs and the same number of UAVs. They typically go in about that order too so if you want to stay in the jet you need to be competitive in the rack and stack. These days, anything approaching a good deal is pretty competitive so do everything you can to upgrade early and often on your first assignment. I know its only been 6 months but is this still the norm? Or are 16s finding a bit more normality? More chances to stay in the jet? Any guesses on what it will be like in 4 years when Im looking to leave my first Ops tour? Or will another base be closing soon and there will once again be 100+ pilots looking for jobs. Thanks -D
Duster Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 A question out of curiosity for any one who went through/going through FTU at Luke: Is the 56th TRS full of viper drivers? If so, how often do they fly? Are they IPs? Are they attached to a squadron (i.e. 61st) that teaches B-Course in the jet? Or are they solely focused on the academic side of things? It looks like, according to link below, that they teach almost everything (Block 50 Specialization, FAC, Thunderbird/Aggressor pilot training, Sr. Officers Course,etc)? Keeping OPSEC in mind, could anyone elaborate on the mission of the 56th TRS? Looks like a pretty cool sq. to be a part of. Thanks. https://www.luke.af.mil/library/factsheets/...p?id=5003#56TRS
HossHarris Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) A question out of curiosity for any one who went through/going through FTU at Luke: Is the 56th TRS full of viper drivers? If so, how often do they fly? Are they IPs? Are they attached to a squadron (i.e. 61st) that teaches B-Course in the jet? Or are they solely focused on the academic side of things? It looks like, according to link below, that they teach almost everything (Block 50 Specialization, FAC, Thunderbird/Aggressor pilot training, Sr. Officers Course,etc)? Keeping OPSEC in mind, could anyone elaborate on the mission of the 56th TRS? Looks like a pretty cool sq. to be a part of. Thanks. https://www.luke.af.mil/library/factsheets/...p?id=5003#56TRS Luke is too big to have a single OSS (it would be a huge squadron). So the OSS does airfield, weather, flight records, etc. and the TRS does the academic stuff. In general the TRS employs IPs that are attached to a B-course squadron (just like an OSS would employ a pilot attached to a squadron in a regular fighter wing) As far as being a cool squadron to be a part of ... you'd still rather be a regular line IP and just fly and deal with squadron stuff. Edited January 22, 2009 by HossHarris
Duster Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 Ahh..makes sense, thanks Hoss. Is this common at other FTUs?
Toro Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 Ahh..makes sense, thanks Hoss. Is this common at other FTUs? That's exactly how's it done for the F-15E FTU at Seymour Johnson.
Guest Dunce Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 I was wondering the pro's and con's of Lackland-Kelly for Viper FTU. I know they are a guard unit and they do one class a year... How does it compare to Luke? Different types of quals? I've heard the airspace over the gulf is money and the range is not as good as Luke's. Thanks, any type of Kelly input is much appreciated! -D
SocialD Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 Flying Block 30's in the Guard....what more could you want!
Guest Vettepilot Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 not a viper guy myself, but talking to a guy i know who is in the program he seems to really enjoy it. said that he has gotten a lot of good instruction from dudes with tons of hours and gets to AR more often than Luke guys, but gets to drop bombs and shot the gun a lot less often. San Antonio and Austin are pretty nice for keepin busy when not flying too. Just dont get too close to the student driven Galaxies, that may be a battle the Viper wont win.
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