Viper (F-16) Q&A

[Mambo]

I was wondering if the flight characteristics of the Viper change when you have -120's on the wingtips as opposed to having 9's out there? I've heard that the plane handles better if the 120's are on the wingtips.

(I was asked by some guys that fly Falcon 4.0, yes I'm a sim geek!)

[Guest KoolKat]

I'm not a viper pilot, but I do have a aerospace engineering degree & some experience in the vulerability/Lethality field, so let me pretend to have sometime worthwhile to say...I know, humor me!

The flight characteristics really shouldn't change since the viper is a fly-by-wire aircraft. The computer should eliminate any noticable effect from the -120 weighing roughtly twice the -6.

If your question is more specific than that, like I said, I haven't ever flown a viper, more less with both of those ordinacnes attached.

Looking at the design of both:

I see no disadvantage of the -120 other than weight & cost (the -120 is much more expensive.) In the lethality/vulnerability community, the -120 is generally considered a superior weapon. Depending who you talk to, I'm sure you can have a good arugement for either weapon.

[Guest CBStud]

I'm a Viper guy but have yet to fly with real -120's. We've got dummy missiles on the wingtips though. I can't tell the difference between the dummy -120 and the -9. I've only got about 69 hours in the viper but I can't tell any difference. The -120 is considerably larger and heavier.

[Guest Hoser]

I have a wopping 1.69 hours in the Viper (for all that's worth), but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I personally know one of the test pilots that put the Viper thru it's paces when the they were testing carrying the heater and the slammer in different locations and he said that in certain configurations which included heaters on the wingtips, the wings would flap like a bird. I seem to recall that he mentioned something to the fact that the heavier -120 has somewhat of a dampening effect.

Hoser

[ 05. July 2005, 18:54: Message edited by: Hoser ]

[Guest KoolKat]

Wow Hoser...that's no good. Aeroelastic flapping of the wings on your fighter can't be particularly comforting.

I assume that the "flapping" would be outside of the "function" of the fly-by-wire system. That may just be the flight characteristic that he was getting at.

That's fascinating, thanks for sharing!

[Guest Xtndr50boom]

Hoser, not sure how familiar you are with the subject but you're talking about wing bending moment relief. You could strap on a thousand pounds of flaming dogcrap on the wingtips and it would help prevent the wings from flapping in the airstream.

This is one of the main reasons why airliner engines are usually installed on the wings. And the further out on the wings, up to a point, the better. With that bending relief installed you can make the wings lighter.

Lower wing weight=lower fuel burn=more customers who want to buy your plane= more $$$$$$

[Beaver]

I did a pond crossing with nothing on the rails but a travel pod, and at .92 mach the wingtips shook so much it made me nervous. That's probably why the limiting speed for that config is .84 mach. Whoops.

The only other time I've seen significant wingtip flutter is at high speed (480 ground) on low levels. Aim 9 or Aim 120 didn't seem to make much difference.

[Guest Dirt Beater]

Why do some vipers have the dark gray radomes and some have a radome painted the same light-gray color as the forward fuselage?

Spang jets

[ 16. August 2005, 19:59: Message edited by: NSFW ]

[BONE Co-driver]

Radar emitters are not painted...the color depends on what material is used to make it.

[Guest Afsocwes@aol.com]

I work on F-16s. And when they come back from depot. They have a nice clean light gray colored radome. And it matches the aircraft paint color. After a few months of flying. They will look a little darker. Then a little more time goes by. And it will look alot darker than the paint on the aircraft. On a F-16 the radome has soft rubber material coating. So my guess is it the sunlight, pollution in the air. And residue from the 20mm gun. After a some time it builds up on the rubber coating. Making it dark.

[Gas Man]

Ok you guys are all wrong. As a prior F-16 crewchief I can tell you, the reason they get darker in color is because they get dirty. If you us the proper cleaner they are a very light gray. Lighter than the paint color. We had one of our crew chiefs cleaning his radom and started doing flames as he went. It looked badass, but then he got his pee-pee slapped and he had to clean the whole thing. Light gray is the color they are when they are clean.

[gimmeaplane]

Whoever said that radomes can't be painted is flat-out wrong.

Edit: not intended as a slam...you were just taught wrong.

[ 18. August 2005, 23:22: Message edited by: gimmeaplane ]

[BONE Co-driver]

Maybe on the Viper, but on the B-1 of the areas where radar is either emitted or received absolutlely cannot be painted...ie the nose cone, wing glove, tail cone, etc.

[ 19. August 2005, 00:06: Message edited by: BONE Co-driver ]

[gimmeaplane]

Copy that. The T.O. beats me anyday. Still...non-metallic paint shouldn't pose a problem.

ViperStud, you obviously haven't heard about the FB-1 program. We've converted it into a regional fighter. Sucker holds 124 AIM-120s and 36 AIM-9x. The carrier variant is replacing the JSF.

[BONE Co-driver]

We do have a-a radar...just no a-a weapons. We use the a-a radar to find the tanker at night or in weather, follow the flight lead in certain formations, and watch for thunderstorms...oh, and to make the crew chief glow during ground ops.

[Smokin]

I've heard mixed accounts of the recording media for F-16's and was wondering which was correct or if it depends on the block. I've heard a standard 8mm tape for HUD/radio and also something about a digital AVTR.

[Guest rumblefish_2]

8mm tapes are standard for the US Vipers (at least in the two blocks I've flown)

[Guest twinkle toes]

Block 32's 8mm, a tcto is coming soon for digital AVTR.

[Guest MakosWes]

https://iac.dtic.mil/success/wstiac-story2.html

[afcowboy]

Watched a video recently where one of the Thunderbirds pulled 9.4 g's during an orientation flight. Do Vipers pull more than 9 g's on a normal basis? Or was he just showing off?

[afcowboy]

The video on youtube...

[Guest ShortThrow]

It kinda pisses me off when I see videos like that. I mean, you only get a ride if you're rich or a celebrity. :(

But yes, 9.4 is pretty impressive. But then again, he had a mask and his visor was down so who knows what weird faces he was making.

[EvilEagle]

From talking to the Viper dudes here, Hal isn't supposed to give them more than 9 g's, sometimes it happens though. And, sometimes they are expecting 9 and Hal only gives them 7.5.

When they get more than 9, they have to go through the tapes frame by frame, they count the total number of frames that were above 9, then refer to some table with fuel weight, PA, etc to determine if it's an over-G.

[Guest CBStud]

Its not normal to pull more than 9g's. In fact, normally I'll only see 8.7g on a BFM ride. The T-birds fly clean jets so that really helps. I've flown a clean Viper once in 3 years so its not common. If I remember right, the HUD g-meter can be inaccurate some times (g overshoot) and display your 9.2 or 9.3 when you never really hit it or didn't hit it for more than 1/15th of a second or so.

[GreasySideUp]

Above 9.5 is when the crewchiefs start drinking for free. Not an over G until 9.6. It should cut it off at nine but I think HAL is occasionally G-Loc'd and isn't quite sure whats going on. I've seen above nine several times, a classmate in RTU held 9.3 for a good 2 turns before calling uncle. A painful tape to watch for sure. Nothing like a GE burning downhill!

The hornet can "Paddle" above 7.5g for emergency use but I believe there are inspections to follow.

-j