czecksikhs Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 Welsh entered the job riding high on our expectations, but he lost the momentum. This shit sounds like a campaign speech. If there wasn't the will to ruthlessly kill something as dumb as Blues Mondays, how is he going to change something as entrenched as PME/AAD/promotions/evals without seriously shaking things up and setting disincentives for those who stray from his vision? A speech and a policy letter aren't going to do it. 1
Homestar Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 Welsh is on the right path here. Unfortunately, the Air Force has this thing about moving people along every 3-4 years. If the AF would allow it's people to stay in place longer perhaps bureaucratic change would actually happen.
Swizzle Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 His vision is good. It appears a vision to wrangle all the cats in this fiscally constrained environment and future; especially in personnel, acquisitions, and schools. The notion of having a fiscal USAF strategy published at the highest levels is realistic, but will create more food fights among the different camps. We all knew the money-easily-flowing times are drying up. I'll start believing there is momentum behind his vision when Doctrine and/or AFI's governing said topics start changing...otherwise it's just banter or policy or politics. The bureaucracy runs on AFI's with a benchmark on doctrine, policy letters are easily changed with the new guy.
ThreeHoler Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 I trust Boomer. It is most other senior raters/leaders whom I do not trust. 5
Cell Dweller Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 Hopefully this is the beginning of a real cultural change in BDE/IDE correspondence and masters degrees. He's right on about job performance, I just hope the bureaucracy can be moved. You want to hear the biggest example of why the culture needs to change? I just heard from an engineer that went to school with me and commissioned in '08. First assignment was LA, where he warmed over at SMC, got an online masters asap, applied to AFIT asap and was accepted. Went to Dayton and got his second masters (both in engineering), then applied for and was accepted to a management program at NPS in Monterrey. So now this homeboy has his third masters and is stationed in Colorado, warming over for what I assume will lead to a PhD program of some sorts. Less than six years in, three masters degrees, and less than three years of time assigned to units that actually do something. The whole attitude of getting a Masters as soon as you can didn't really bother me, but this self licking ice cream cone of a career is really ridiculous.
Champ Kind Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 Were those degrees actually pertinent to his career field as an engineer, and did what he learned in those programs make the AF and/or his community better? If so, I've got no beef.
panchbarnes Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) I'd venture to say 99% of the AF engineers are usually just project managers. The hardcore "stuff" is done by civilians and/or contractors. An MBA might help you become a better bean counter in that career field, but what matters more is to get that hands on experience early on so as you progress in rank you can make sound technical and programmatic decisions. My opinion is that this philosophy applies to any AFSC. If you have an undergraduate technical degree, the biggest advantage you have is you learned how to learn. You don't really need another technical Masters or PhD unless you just want to smoke a pipe (STS) and write theoretical papers all day long. Why do we keep pushing/sending junior folks to get multiple advanced degrees in the era of reduced budget/manning. This idea of PhD = smart leader is comical. Let's see how many A1 and AFPC managers have Masters and PhDs. I agree that unless Gen Welsh's speeches are translated into the AFIs then nothing will ever change. Edited February 22, 2014 by PanchBarnes 1 1
Marlboro BLACK Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 In other news, this is happening. AF Crimes Link: WELSH THROWS DOWN THE GAUNTLET: AIR FORCE WIDE MUSTACHE MARCH
panchbarnes Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) Immediately following the speech, Chief Cody was dragged outside by the other E-9s and beat senseless for not correcting Gen Welsh on the spot. Edited February 23, 2014 by PanchBarnes
drewpey Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 Welsh entered the job riding high on our expectations, but he lost the momentum. This shit sounds like a campaign speech. If there wasn't the will to ruthlessly kill something as dumb as Blues Mondays, how is he going to change something as entrenched as PME/AAD/promotions/evals without seriously shaking things up and setting disincentives for those who stray from his vision? A speech and a policy letter aren't going to do it. At least he is acknowledging the big issues within the force and not just white-washing everything. Sometimes change in the military is changing the period to a comma, or a "will" to a "should", but as long as it's forward movement in the right direction I won't bitch about those leading the way. He is relaxing all the stupid requirements we've got and allow me to be home with my family more often, and optimize the time we do have at work to be good at our jobs and I thank him for that. I've been pretty hesitant about him so far, but every time I read about his speeches he is right on point.
czecksikhs Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 His speeches are great, Gen Welsh is an inspiring and engaging man. I seriously hope he can do some good. Blues Mondays is a small point and not the best to use as an example, but he could have started the ball rolling to kill it in half the time he took to throw down the gauntlet for mustache March. My point was that if he desired big changes in a big bureaucracy like the AF, he should have kicked in the door with a knife in his teeth on day one. Spending a year with mock promotion boards in an effort to build some kind on consensus instead of ordering common sense changes ASAP just pissed away a chunk of his tenure. If he can still fix the big rocks like AAD/PME/evals/promotions and make them stick after he leaves, that would be terrific. Still, I'd gladly wager with anyone that new lieutenants will still be slaving on their BS Touro masters in 5 yrs. 1
Chuck17 Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 His speeches are great, Gen Welsh is an inspiring and engaging man. I seriously hope he can do some good. Blues Mondays is a small point and not the best to use as an example, but he could have started the ball rolling to kill it in half the time he took to throw down the gauntlet for mustache March. My point was that if he desired big changes in a big bureaucracy like the AF, he should have kicked in the door with a knife in his teeth on day one. Spending a year with mock promotion boards in an effort to build some kind on consensus instead of ordering common sense changes ASAP just pissed away a chunk of his tenure. If he can still fix the big rocks like AAD/PME/evals/promotions and make them stick after he leaves, that would be terrific. Still, I'd gladly wager with anyone that new lieutenants will still be slaving on their BS Touro masters in 5 yrs. Or.... He took the time to demonstrate to those making the decisions at the board that they were focused on the wrong things, in an effort to show the next generation of leaders that they need a course correction, thereby establishing his credibility via example - which would have been impossible had he kicked in the door and started telling people they are wrong. Think bigger. Chuck 4
Rusty Pipes Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 Or.... He took the time to demonstrate to those making the decisions at the board that they were focused on the wrong things, in an effort to show the next generation of leaders that they need a course correction, thereby establishing his credibility via example - which would have been impossible had he kicked in the door and started telling people they are wrong. Think bigger. Chuck How do you convince the majority of those in senior leadership positions that the very thing that they embrace and checked every box along the way to achieve... that the results of that process (i.e.THEM) is terribly flawed and needs to be changed? The boss may very well be very gently opening and closing the door during these meetings and then kicking in teeth behind those closed doors, but it will take a lot more than inspirational speeches to convince a bunch of Generals and O-6s that they are the problem and that we don't want to continue to promote in their own images. If there isn't a certain degree of teeth kicking going on from the Chief I'm worried that many will just pay lip-service to what the boss is trying to do and just wait him out. That would be a shame because I think he is the best actual leader we've seen in a long time.
czecksikhs Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 The problem is that the AF already has the institutional memory of the "practice bleeding" debacle. Gen Jumper was before my time, but issuing the practice bleeding memo and laying it on the line for Schwalier give him a lot of cred in my book. I'd wager the average crew dog was fired up about him back then. Without overhauling the system and setting the example by crushing a wing king or two that don't take the message to heart about forgetting about masters degrees, nothing will ever change. In a 4 yr tenure as CSAF, I'd bet it could be done with enough horsepower. Laying the groundwork sounds like bullshit. None of this is to say everything is ed. The AF will go on just fine, but these things could be made better on his watch. 2
NotADude Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-the-army-should-fire-some-generals-and-promote-some-captains/2014/02/21/7921a234-9802-11e3-afce-3e7c922ef31e_story.html Interesting article written by a former Army Captain. I think John Q. Public linked to it somewhere as well. Won't ever happen, but it's an intriguing idea.
Herk Driver Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) The problem is that the AF already has the institutional memory of the "practice bleeding" debacle. Gen Jumper was before my time, but issuing the practice bleeding memo and laying it on the line for Schwalier give him a lot of cred in my book. I'd wager the average crew dog was fired up about him back then. Without overhauling the system and setting the example by crushing a wing king or two that don't take the message to heart about forgetting about masters degrees, nothing will ever change. In a 4 yr tenure as CSAF, I'd bet it could be done with enough horsepower. Laying the groundwork sounds like bullshit. None of this is to say everything is fucked. The AF will go on just fine, but these things could be made better on his watch. Point taken, but if only Gen Jumper signed the "practice bleeding" memo... He did push the changes, but he left it to Gen Brady his A1 to sign the practice bleeding memo. And people took it for what it was worth, a memo signed by someone other than the Chief. How many times, on this board, have people bitched about a squadron CC coming in and making changes without consulting with his people? Without buy-in, none of these changes will stick. Hell, many of them may not stick anyway, but at least he may get some buy-in and they may stick around for longer than one CSAF. I see his changes as common sense changes but not all people do. Over my career, I have watched this issue come full circle and back again. There are always the one or two dudes that will see it the other way, but at least he is making changes and using data/ real experience to back up his changes. Maybe they will stick this time...time will tell. Edited February 23, 2014 by Herk Driver 2
Chuck17 Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 How many times, on this board, have people bitched about a squadron CC coming in and making changes without consulting with his people? Without buy-in, none of these changes will stick. Hell, many of them may not stick anyway, but at least he may get some buy-in and they may stick around for longer than one CSAF. Shack. Don't be using your logic here bro. It takes away the sport bitching! Chuck 2
Danny Noonin Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 Point taken, but if only Gen Jumper signed the "practice bleeding" memo... He did push the changes, but he left it to Gen Brady his A1 to sign the practice bleeding memo. And people took it for what it was worth, a memo signed by someone other than the Chief. Brady may have signed one too, but there was also a Jumper signed memo.
Herk Driver Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 Brady may have signed one too, but there was also a Jumper signed memo. I'd like to see it. Below is a link to the post referencing the same document I am talking about. Although the internal link in that post is dead now. I can no longer find the actual memo anywhere.
czecksikhs Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 I'd like to see it. Below is a link to the post referencing the same document I am talking about. Although the internal link in that post is dead now. I can no longer find the actual memo anywhere. 1
Herk Driver Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) This was the first step but I don't ever remember seeing a policy memo from him. Everything below is out of a Chiefs Sight Picture document from 2002 and 2005. Certainly, it drove the A1 memo. Although his policy, the A1 signed it and that is one of the reasons that I would posit that it never took. Nevermind the fact that Gen Moseley overturned the policy shortly after being confirmed as CSAF. Either way, Switzer has it right in his paper and Gen Welsh is moving the ball down the field. Quote below out of a paper in Air Power Journal. full; text here: https://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/apj/2011/2011-4/2011_4_07_switzer.pdf "In 2005 Gen John P. Jumper, chief of staff of the Air Force, wrote a letter to all members of the service describing a significant change in promotion procedures and the Air Force’s treatment of education. Specifically, he directed the Air Force Personnel Center (AFPC) to mask officer education data on promotion boards through the rank of colonel, making it available only for brigadier general and above. By doing so, General Jumper intended to stop officers from pursuing AADs for the sole purpose of increasing their chances for promotion, also known as “square-filling” or “checking the box.” Although he acknowledged the value and importance of education to the Air Force and its officer corps, the general believed that the pursuit of AADs should be deliberate and focused. An earlier letter of General Jumper’s, written in 2002 regarding force development, foreshadowed his education policy. In that letter, he echoed the criticism of the status quo regarding education opportunities: “I know that a lot of you feel there are many reasons to be discouraged or dissatisfied with our current system—limited PME in-residence slots, limited advanced degree opportunities, or worse, square-filling master’s degree programs that do little to make you better at your job or get you closer to your goals. I have experienced some of these issues myself and I hear the same feedback from you. So let’s fix it.” Edit: Link to the CSAF sight pictures. https://www.au.af.mil/au/aul/menu_jump.htm Edited February 24, 2014 by Herk Driver
Lawman Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-the-army-should-fire-some-generals-and-promote-some-captains/2014/02/21/7921a234-9802-11e3-afce-3e7c922ef31e_story.html Interesting article written by a former Army Captain. I think John Q. Public linked to it somewhere as well. Won't ever happen, but it's an intriguing idea. Some of his ideas are misplaced. He talks about the inability of he old corps to adapt to the Coin fight. What he doesn't talk about is he generation of "middle managers" we have raised in TOCs around he AO who only operate in an environment of informational saturation and risk aversion via the tactical directive of the week. Think about how many times you've walked into a TOC that looked like a best buy or flown around with a units as small as squads putting up their own UAVs to get eyes on exactly what you described via voice. How many commanders want your rover code the second you check in? Those commanders have no preparation for a real fight. The fight against a peer or near peer force not clubbing seals like we have for the last decade where more thought is put on things like ROE arm chair quarter backing and asking crews to think is engaging the enemy "worth it." Those kinds of officers have found themselves embarrassingly behind the power curve as we switch our training and Eval process back to pre 9-11 focus. So no it's not time to just fire all he old guys. Most of those old guys have good stuff to bang into the heads of all he O3-O4 guys they will be in charge when they leave. 1
Azimuth Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 I wonder who the four star is without a Masters?
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