Gen Welsh - USAF Chief of Staff

[panchbarnes]

You know, it is kind of scary that Gen Welsh is almost half-way done with his term as the CSAF.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_of_Staff_of_the_United_States_Air_Force

Edited April 12, 2014 by PanchBarnes

[Toro]

Fucking stop it.

Harumph. I would nominate you for the next CSAF if I knew you wouldn't scoff and take a giant dump on my letter of recommendation.

Maybe fire a few people.

Haven't been keeping up with the news lately, have you? "We" are firing plenty of people, but not all those were the people that needed to be fired.

[justajob]

A lot of people have been fired lately, but rarely for poor performance. The missile types were only fired after all the bad publicity and it was coincidence that stuff even came to light. I've never seen a commander or anyone of importance fired for sucking at their job; sometimes they just don't get promoted.

[guineapigfury]

There is nothing to say the CSAF won't fire some high-ranking AFPC goobers after this shit-show reaches its conclusion. The appropriate punishment may be to make the current AFPC managment clean up their own mess, then show them the door.

[Champ Kind]

A lot of people have been fired lately, but rarely for poor performance. The missile types were only fired after all the bad publicity and it was coincidence that stuff even came to light. I've never seen a commander or anyone of importance fired for sucking at their job; sometimes they just don't get promoted.

Actually, the shittiest people I've encountered that occupied the commander's office have all been promoted. Every single one.

[justajob]

same for me, i was just hoping big blue noticed the failure of a few of them. As for AFPC cleaning up their own mess; I can't imagine they have the capability to not suck and merely chose this horrible path.

[ComingLeft]

Somewhat fair, but how about a blurb? A word from CSAF in a public forum that he is working on these?

Talk is cheap. You can say only so many times, "We are working on it." Small steps that are in his power demonstrate clearly he is listening. It also begs for more time and patience on the big issues that require coordination. No one thinks the AF can be fixed over night, but string enough guys like Welsh together and the next decade could be sweet.

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

[slackline]

I'd prefer if he spent his time un######ing VSP, TERA, RIF, and the nuclear enterprise.

I was willing to be cool with the little stuff at first, but yeah, there are so many big ticket items he could fix with policy immediately, yet he doesn't. I'll take the little stuff, but overall he's dropping the ball when he leaves those big ticket items untouched. There's a difference between him saying, "we need to do things smarter in regards to AADs", and actually changing the regs/policy, and not allowing wg/cc, etc to make the policy more restrictive. Sorry, random Sunday morning ramble. Pick any other number of examples...

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

[flyjetz]

...and the next decade could be sweet.

BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!

[Majestik Møøse]

There's a big difference between having the authority to fix something and actually being able to fix it. I'm sure every CSAF, SecDef, and POTUS has had many a grand vision dashed once they see the reality of their office.

[pawnman]

I was willing to be cool with the little stuff at first, but yeah, there are so many big ticket items he could fix with policy immediately, yet he doesn't. I'll take the little stuff, but overall he's dropping the ball when he leaves those big ticket items untouched. There's a difference between him saying, "we need to do things smarter in regards to AADs", and actually changing the regs/policy, and not allowing wg/cc, etc to make the policy more restrictive. Sorry, random Sunday morning ramble. Pick any other number of examples...

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

Bingo.

He says things like "stop doing stupid stuff because it's written down". Well, sir, with all due respect, who signs the regulations where these stupid things are written down? You want us to stop worrying about AADs until the Col boards...who has it in their power to take that particular piece of information away from the promotion boards? You want every officer to go to SOS in residence, with correspondence being reserved only for folks who have such punishing ops tempos that they can't get there from here...who has the power to restrict SOS to residence only?

[guineapigfury]

Concur, we have an awesome CSAF undermined by piss poor followership at the levels between him and the squadrons. Guidance needs to take the form of AFI changes at this point, since "conspicuous compliance" seems to be all those people understand.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

So we have a CSAF who ride into office on a wave of inspiring speeches and "hope and change". We're probably about halfway through his tenure, and what do we have so far?

1. Morale shirts/patches are back! Rejoice!

2. ......

3. Profit?

On the negative side:

1. The F-35 procurement debacle (yes, I know this is inhireted, but the F-35 remains a sacred cow that the AF seems committed to pay ANY price to get, including proven legacy airframes like the A-10, KC-10 and others, which leads to...

2. The FY14/FY15 force management shennanigans. The only thing that is preventing a complete repeat of 2011 is the fact that they had an OVERWHELMING number of volunteers, thus negating the need for a RIF (so far). But it has been once again rife with missed deadlines, contradicting guidance from AFPC, buffoonery approvals and denials, and a healthy does of bait-and-switch.

3. Demonstrated toxic, failing leadership at multiple wings spanning at least four MAJCOMs. In the digital age this seeks to undermine the entire credibility of the service, yet the CSAF states before congress we have "no ethics problem"

But we have morale shirts, mustache contests, and a BBQ cookoff!

[BattleRattle]

4. He kind of got rid of Blues Monday...

[guineapigfury]

4. He kind of got rid of Blues Monday...

The saddest thing is that this is the biggest improvement any of the last 3 CSAFs could manage.

[matmacwc]

It's better than the last, whattya want?

[BattleRattle]

5. He told us we could ignore regulations if we believe they don't make sense and/or they get in the way of mission accomplishment...

// sarcasm

[chim richalds]

He was in charge when my vsp got approved, for that he is better than Curtis freakin Lemay in my book.

[LockheedFix]

AAD masked on all boards below O-6. If you can't respect the hell out of that there's no hope for you.

[sqwatch]

5. He told us we could ignore regulations if we believe they don't make sense and/or they get in the way of mission accomplishment...

// sarcasm

Some interpreted this as a pass to chaff off the regs. Some rolled their eyes and continued on promoting institutionalized missprioritization of queep-before-mission. Some took this as an opportunity to be a thinking Officer and make decisions on what could be knocked-off when faced with limited resources. What camp are you in?

So we have a CSAF who ride into office on a wave of inspiring speeches and "hope and change". We're probably about halfway through his tenure, and what do we have so far?

1. Morale shirts/patches are back! Rejoice!

2. ......

3. Profit?

On the negative side:

1. The F-35 procurement debacle (yes, I know this is inhireted, but the F-35 remains a sacred cow that the AF seems committed to pay ANY price to get, including proven legacy airframes like the A-10, KC-10 and others, which leads to...

2. The FY14/FY15 force management shennanigans. The only thing that is preventing a complete repeat of 2011 is the fact that they had an OVERWHELMING number of volunteers, thus negating the need for a RIF (so far). But it has been once again rife with missed deadlines, contradicting guidance from AFPC, buffoonery approvals and denials, and a healthy does of bait-and-switch.

3. Demonstrated toxic, failing leadership at multiple wings spanning at least four MAJCOMs. In the digital age this seeks to undermine the entire credibility of the service, yet the CSAF states before congress we have "no ethics problem"

But we have morale shirts, mustache contests, and a BBQ cookoff!

1. Proven legacy aircraft? I want what you're smoking. Proven against an enemy with the same counter-air weaponry as the Triple Entente.

2. I love to sh1t on AFPC, especially when they give me the shaft. But to say the only thing preventing this latest debacle from turning into the abortion that the '11 RIF was ONLY due to the sheer number of VSPs is a stretch, and lacking factual substance. I have no idea what goes on behind the AFPC curtain, but I have a hunch that they extended their eight hour duty day and shortened their two hour lunches with the amount of work that's been piled on their desks in the last year. In fact, I'm happy I'm not doing their thankless job and I make no claim that I could do better without some firsthand experience in what's happening right now.

3. Agree with this line except the quote at the end - "no ethic problem". This is how rumors are started. Here's what he actually said:

"Do we have incidents? Absolutely," Welsh, the Air Force chief of staff, said in an interview. "Any organization with almost 700,000 people is going to have incidents. But we do not have an epidemic of bad ethical behavior by people across the Air Force. If you look at the numbers, that's simply not the case."

also,

"There's a big difference between an endemic or systemic problem and bad behavior by individuals. There's a big difference."

https://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20140725/NEWS05/307250051/Welsh-gives-Air-Force-top-ethics-marks-Congresswomen-say-comments-troubling-

Should I be diapered for the actions of a few? What would you tell congress? Would you agree with Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand that there's a systemic ethical problem and undermine the vast majority of Airmen that serve with distinction on a daily basis? Or would support your subordinate's hard work and dedication despite the actions of some individuals?

Fvckin'a we have morale shirts, bullet proof mustaches, BBQ cook-offs and the like. The General tries to promote esprit de corps, and you tools use it against him.

I get it, there are issues. To blame them on the best CSAF we've had in the last ten years is retarded.

Edited August 12, 2014 by sqwatch

[FlyinGrunt]

sqwatch has a point. I'm absurdly cynical, and as much as I want to say that there is a problem across the board with senior leadership and hypocrisy/ethics/self-promotion and general stupidity, put yourself in the CSAF's shoes. Is he not facing the same problem CGOs and FGOs face every day when questioned about 1 or incidents at the squadron level? 1's a fluke, 2's a trend, so we must all be treated like children since we ALL have a problem?

That having been said, it's time to fix the problem at the CSAF level the same way it should be handled at the squadron level. Full investigations, protections for IG and legal processes (and complainants/defendants/plaintiffs), and then when all is discovered, heads should roll if allegations are corroborated. After the heads roll, release all that is releasable, talk about what happened, and then outline what action was taken and why.

CSAF has a rep as a stand up guy who's willing to answer a direct question with a direct answer. Here in yet another scandal he has a chance to prove "we've got some bad apples. We investigated fully and took care of the problem. Moving on . . " I think that would answer the mail to Congress, and it would improve morale by orders of magnitude. Airmen don't want to be coddled, and those that do should have their attitudes fixed. But all airmen, from E-1 to O-10, have a right to fair treatment. The perception that fairness and justice, however harsh, is not the ethical standard in the Air Force is one that must be corrected, even if it's going to look bloody. Exhibit 1: Malmstrom AFB, past 6-9 months.

[Ram]

Some interpreted this as a pass to chaff off the regs. Some rolled their eyes and continued on promoting institutionalized missprioritization of queep-before-mission. Some took this as an opportunity to be a thinking Officer and make decisions on what could be knocked-off when faced with limited resources. What camp are you in?

1. Proven legacy aircraft? I want what you're smoking. Proven against an enemy with the same counter-air weaponry as the Triple Entente.

2. I love to sh1t on AFPC, especially when they give me the shaft. But to say the only thing preventing this latest debacle from turning into the abortion that the '11 RIF was ONLY due to the sheer number of VSPs is a stretch, and lacking factual substance. I have no idea what goes on behind the AFPC curtain, but I have a hunch that they extended their eight hour duty day and shortened their two hour lunches with the amount of work that's been piled on their desks in the last year. In fact, I'm happy I'm not doing their thankless job and I make no claim that I could do better without some firsthand experience in what's happening right now.

3. Agree with this line except the quote at the end - "no ethic problem". This is how rumors are started. Here's what he actually said:

"Do we have incidents? Absolutely," Welsh, the Air Force chief of staff, said in an interview. "Any organization with almost 700,000 people is going to have incidents. But we do not have an epidemic of bad ethical behavior by people across the Air Force. If you look at the numbers, that's simply not the case."

also,

"There's a big difference between an endemic or systemic problem and bad behavior by individuals. There's a big difference."

https://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20140725/NEWS05/307250051/Welsh-gives-Air-Force-top-ethics-marks-Congresswomen-say-comments-troubling-

Should I be diapered for the actions of a few? What would you tell congress? Would you agree with Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand that there's a systemic ethical problem and undermine the vast majority of Airmen that serve with distinction on a daily basis? Or would support your subordinate's hard work and dedication despite the actions of some individuals?

Fvckin'a we have morale shirts, bullet proof mustaches, BBQ cook-offs and the like. The General tries to promote esprit de corps, and you tools use it against him.

I get it, there are issues. To blame them on the best CSAF we've had in the last ten years is retarded.

Slow clap, Thork. Well said.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

1. Proven legacy aircraft? I want what you're smoking. Proven against an enemy with the same counter-air weaponry as the Triple Entente.

2. I love to sh1t on AFPC, especially when they give me the shaft. But to say the only thing preventing this latest debacle from turning into the abortion that the '11 RIF was ONLY due to the sheer number of VSPs is a stretch, and lacking factual substance. I have no idea what goes on behind the AFPC curtain, but I have a hunch that they extended their eight hour duty day and shortened their two hour lunches with the amount of work that's been piled on their desks in the last year. In fact, I'm happy I'm not doing their thankless job and I make no claim that I could do better without some firsthand experience in what's happening right now.

3. Agree with this line except the quote at the end - "no ethic problem". This is how rumors are started. Here's what he actually said:

"Do we have incidents? Absolutely," Welsh, the Air Force chief of staff, said in an interview. "Any organization with almost 700,000 people is going to have incidents. But we do not have an epidemic of bad ethical behavior by people across the Air Force. If you look at the numbers, that's simply not the case."

also,

"There's a big difference between an endemic or systemic problem and bad behavior by individuals. There's a big difference."

https://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20140725/NEWS05/307250051/Welsh-gives-Air-Force-top-ethics-marks-Congresswomen-say-comments-troubling-

Should I be diapered for the actions of a few? What would you tell congress? Would you agree with Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand that there's a systemic ethical problem and undermine the vast majority of Airmen that serve with distinction on a daily basis? Or would support your subordinate's hard work and dedication despite the actions of some individuals?

Fvckin'a we have morale shirts, bullet proof mustaches, BBQ cook-offs and the like. The General tries to promote esprit de corps, and you tools use it against him.

I get it, there are issues. To blame them on the best CSAF we've had in the last ten years is retarded.

1. So aside from low observable and data linking, what improvement over the aircraft it's replacing does the F-35 bring to the table? It's slower and less maneuverable than the F-16 and F-18, so we lose ground on the BFM front. And last I heard it can't pass a drop of gas, so cutting the KC-10 to pay for it is self explanatory. It is faster and far less survivable than the A-10, so we lose ground on the CAS front, and costs several multiples more than any of those aircraft. If you thing we as taxpayers or a nation are getting a good deal, I want what YOU'RE smoking. I get that the F-16, F-18, and A-10 are certainly due for recapitalization, but the only capability the F-35 has proven superior at thus far is funneling a LOT of money into Lockheed's coffers.

2. Maybe I'm bitter due to my individual circumstance, but VSP this round was another nightmare of buffoonery. I won't get into personal details because they're irrelevant for this thread (PM me if interested) but suffice to say, AFPC is still the same 'ole AFPC. The right hand has no idea what the left hand is doing, the left hand has no idea what it's supposed to be doing, and the right hand is in charge of ensuring the left hand is doing its job.

3. So at what threshold does a problem become endemic? Allegations (nothing more at this point, keep in mind) of toxicity and/or incompetence go all the way to the top at AMC, at least to the NAF level at PACAF, at least the wing in AETC, and from the crew to at least the NAF level in GSC. If I were a betting man I would say it's simply a matter of time before ACC and USAFE ident on this one too (Tinker is always a good place to bet on). I get that these problems weren't caused by the current CSAF, but he's the guy checking the mailbox these days, and he has been oddly silent on these issues.

I'm all for e'sprit de corps, but it's a sugar high at best when there are real problems that seem to be going nowhere fast. I also agree that the current CSAF is the best we've had lately, but after the last one I'm sure a shaved chimpanzee would be just about as popular.

And if you think I'm just sport-bitching, think about this-- the ethics thing (at least) is on congress's radar. The CSAF has already stated his case on the issue and it ran counter to the perceptions held by many, to include members of congress. The last time a CSAF gave congress the impression he didn't know what he was doing, we ended up with Skeletor. So continue to enjoy your hope-and-change if you want, but storm clouds may very well be brewing.

[brabus]

what improvement over the aircraft it's replacing does the F-35 bring to the table?

A mega fuck ton...seriously. Yep, its way over budget, way late and has been terribly managed. It will get annihilated in a BFM engagement against an enemy who has some clue about BFM execution (from a pure Em standpoint anyways). There are downfalls, but it's what we have to work with. Despite some of the downfalls, it still has some amazing capability (coming up in the next 3 years or so) that blows the majority of current fighter capability out of the water, minus the ol' Em diagram of course.

[BattleRattle]

Some interpreted this as a pass to chaff off the regs. Some rolled their eyes and continued on promoting institutionalized missprioritization of queep-before-mission. Some took this as an opportunity to be a thinking Officer and make decisions on what could be knocked-off when faced with limited resources. What camp are you in?

I'm in the camp that totally supports the CSAF's intention here. The problem is, if the chain of command between me and the CSAF doesn't support his initiative, it really doesn't do me a whole lot of good to chaff off the regs...

Which camp are you in?

Edited August 12, 2014 by BattleRattle