Airshow speeds

[Guest JPritch]

Just wondering why you never see fighters do a mach 1 flyby at airshows? I think it would be a huge attraction to see a plane fly by at the speed of sound. The fastest I've seen them fly at airshows is ~250 kts.

Is there a reason for this? If prohibited by FAR's, can't they relax them for the show?

[Guest Ragansundowner]

I don't know any specifics about speeds, but the Blue Angel's lead solo accidently broke the sound barrier during one of their practice sessions here for fleet week, I believe it was 4 or 5 years ago. A decent amount of damage was done to windows, etc.

-R.S.

[Guest Air_chompers]

Around 1955(Around) The FAA Banned Super Sonic Every Were Except For Certain Areas (Moa Ect.)

[ 05. November 2004, 18:48: Message edited by: Tyler ]

[Guest airwinger]

I believe the blue angel 'sneak pass' is done at 0.9 mach, but I could be wrong.

I'm basing this on 1) the blues' web page https://www.blueangels.navy.mil/geninfo/faq.html#speeds

2) eyeballing. at meridian we have a 350knot max speed at the break. You can tell pretty well a guy a t 250, 300,350 or the guy i saw today who must have been doing 450

[El Duderino]

I have been fortunate to hang around an organization that performs at air shows so I know a little bit about what goes on. The FARs have a speed restriction of 200 to 250 kts below 10,000 ft depending upon what airspace you are in. At air shows they get an FAA waiver for airspace that's 4-5 miles radius from "show center" and up to 17-18,000 ft. This allows military and warbird performers to fly faster than the FARs allow as well as the aerobatic performs to fly all their maneuvers that you wouldn't be able to do any other day over a controlled airport. The fighter demo pilots usually make a high speed pass that bumps up against the MACH.

This is what I have picked up by sitting through airshow pilot's briefings and talking with performers, it may not be holy writ but should be pretty accurate.

Dude

[Toro]

AFI 11-209

1.2.5. Airspeed Limitations. The minimum airspeed for the operation of any fixed-wing AF aircraft participating in any military or civilian event is stall speed plus 30 percent for the aircraft configuration. Airlift aircraft used in demonstrating standard, approved actical procedures such as assault takeoffs or assault landings, may be flown at lower airspeeds, but not at airspeeds lower than specified in technical order publications. Maximum airspeed airspeed is limited to .90 MACH for all aerial demonstrations except for approved record flights.

[Rocker]

I saw an F-15C flying at 650 mph and about 300 AGL (all according to the announcer) at the Stewart Int'l Airshow up in New York last year. It doesn't look all that impressive in the video, but in person, it's pretty amazing how fast he's moving.

I don't know if the link will work:

https://halfmilefinal.web1000.com/F15highspeed.avi

...but that's a clip I got of it.

[ 06. November 2004, 13:18: Message edited by: Rocker ]

[flynhigh]

Posted this clip once before, but I just have to show it off again!

F-18 High Speed Pass

[Guest Chuck Sargent]

Airshow demonstration crewmembers operate under a waiver to appropriate FAR's for that particular airshow. The FAA does not care about the AFI's, but crews adhere to the regulations pertaining to airshow demonstrations.

I've never heard of the FAA waiving the speed limit over Mach 1.

If you want to learn more about airshows, visit www.airshows.org.

Fly Good!

-HW

Wings Over Pittsburgh Airshow Director

[Guest Piperpilot2004]

In the 70s the F-4 opperated by the Blue Angels broke a sound barrier over a town by accident during a show. They had to all land and were in some heavy crap for a few days..then they carried out the show a few days later. A lot of the windows in the town were shattered including the mayors if I recall reading it correctly. Not sure where this was though because I read this well over a year ago, but I am sure there is still some info on this. By the way, Im pretty sure Fighter Pilots cant go over the speed of sound unless they are a minimum of 15 miles from shore. Also with FAA regulations, its not aloud because of airspace, and also the ever increasing populated areas..

[Flare]

Originally posted by Piperpilot2004:

By the way, Im pretty sure Fighter Pilots cant go over the speed of sound unless they are a minimum of 15 miles from shore. Also with FAA regulations, its not aloud because of airspace, and also the ever increasing populated areas..

While I'm not a fighter pilot , I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night and I did fly T-38s as a student at ENJJPT about a year ago. As a student, we do a ride called the zoom-and-boom, in which we go supersonic over north texas....far from the shore line.

[Guest dumaisj]

A few weeks back, GreasySideUp posted a very eloquently written piece detailing his Torch ride. If you haven't read it yet, make the time...it's a great story.

[ 03. January 2005, 21:52: Message edited by: dumaisj ]

[Guest dumaisj]

Forgot to paste the link:

https://www.dynamictruth.com/cgi-bin/ultima...t=001808#000000

[Toro]

Originally posted by Piperpilot2004:

By the way, Im pretty sure Fighter Pilots cant go over the speed of sound unless they are a minimum of 15 miles from shore.

Granted, this doesn't have anything to do with airshows, but this is dictated by local regs, it's not an overall AF reg. This is why F-15Es at Seymour have to be 15 miles off shore, but T-38s at Columbus or Laughlin only have to be above an certain altitude (somewhere in the mid-to-high 20s, IIRC).

[Guest Piperpilot2004]

"Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - Officials from the U.S. Air Force confirmed Wednesday afternoon that two F-16 fighter planes were flying at supersonic speeds off the S.C. coast Tuesday night, causing a loud boom that shook the Grand Strand." -F-16.net

here is an article thats interesting

https://www.f-16.net/f-16_news_article1277.html

[Hacker]

Just to pile on...

As Toro said, there are places over the CONUS where supersonic flight by military aircraft is allowed, as well as spots away fron land out over the ocean.

The supersonic corridors that military bases use for supersonic flight (syllabus training and FCF) are specifically identified in Letters of Agreement (LOAs) with the FAA. There is no single rule that says "you can go supersonic always if you're above FLXXX" or "you can go supersonic if you're XXX miles off shore." The rule in the FARs (14 CFRs...) is that no sonic boom shall be allowed to reach the ground, so these LOAs are designed to ensure that it doesn't happen around the population. As Piperpilot2004's post noted, even being offshore several miles away, a sonic boom can propegate and reach the landmass.

In addition, there are a couple of FAA-designated spots for civilian aircraft supersonic flight, and those flights must be pre-coordinated with the FAA (e.g. aircraft at the National Test Pilot School, etc)

[Guest Piperpilot2004]

oh really thats pretty cool. I think I actually recall that pilots flying out of Nellis have a whole desert for that kind of stuff, but I am not entirely correct. I have heard many things about that, but yours makes the most sense. Also the last question about supersonic flight... can a sonic boom effect another aircraft OTHER than yours? Lke could it screw up another aircraft? (prob not..?) jw.

[Guest Piperpilot2004]

its a stupid question that i am sure no one has asked ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

;)

[Guest Air_chompers]

Hmmm What do you plan to do with this knowlage? JW

[Guest Piperpilot2004]

no I was just wondering..I dont fly anything supersonic just cruise around at 90kts in a warrior..no I was jw because I hear all the time about sonic booms blasting out windows, and I didnt know if they could have an effect on another aircraft? Pointless question but it made me think about it a little. a "JW" question dont worry lol

[Guest Piperpilot2004]

sorry let my correct myself, I dont hear about booms blasting out windows all the time, but I have heard some stories from past history**