Competitive Balance at UPT

[SteadyStick]

I am currently in AFROTC commissioning in May and heading to UPT at some point after that. (Hoping for quick EADs)

I have been trying to get into the right mindset for UPT. I, like many guys going to UPT have been wanting to fly fighters for the AF for as long as I can remember.

So my question is this: What is the best way to approach the competitive aspect of UPT? I am going there determined to achieve my goals, and will give 110% to get there but I don't want to be that guy who steps on the other studs to get what I want.

I have heard that it is an intense competition and it's dog eat dog, but also that you need to help each other out and pass on all the valuable info that you get regarding rides,IPs, ect. What is the best way to balance the two?

*Note: I would be honored to be allowed to fly any airframe in the AF, I don't mean to imply that any type of jet is inferior/superior to another, fighters are just my personal goal.

Thanks for any insight/comments/advice on the subject and sorry if this is a FNG question to ask.

[Toro]

UTFSF

[Danakonda]

Valid questions you ask. As a recent UPT grad here are my thoughts:

Be a bro- Don't try and shine your own ass. If you can help a classmate out with some random GK type stuff or how to fly formation or how to properly open a beer with your teeth (valuable lesson I learned), do it. The next time you have a question your bros should pay it back. There might be classmates that wait for the opportune moments to "be a bro" while commanders are watching, but commanders can see through that crap.

Have goals- more like have realistic goals. Don't show up day 1 and say "I'm here to fly an F-XX." That may be your personal goal (and thats all good) but know your place. IPs might take offense if you show up acting like billy badass (probably because they wanted fighters and it wasn't in the stars for them). I would set goals for each phase and it kept me focused (Eg. 100% on Tests, T-1/-38 at Track select, Fighter/Bomber/etc on assignment night).

Study all the time- Ok not ALL the time but for me, whether i knew the info or not I was engaged Sunday afternoon through Friday afternoon. Study every manual or T.O. you can and when you know it forward and backward, reread it. Just do anything to stay engaged. Now from Friday afternoon until Sunday after church I never touched a book (just to keep me sane).

I hope this might shed some light on the subject, those are just a couple of things that helped me.

[Seriously]

Have goals- more like have realistic goals. Don't show up day 1 and say "I'm here to fly an F-XX." That may be your personal goal (and thats all good) but know your place. IPs might take offense if you show up acting like billy badass (probably because they wanted fighters and it wasn't in the stars for them). I would set goals for each phase and it kept me focused (Eg. 100% on Tests, T-1/-38 at Track select, Fighter/Bomber/etc on assignment night).

Caveat to this: If someone asks you what you want to fly, tell them straight up. There's no shame in wanting a T-38 at track select.

Study all the time- Ok not ALL the time but for me, whether i knew the info or not I was engaged Sunday afternoon through Friday afternoon. Study every manual or T.O. you can and when you know it forward and backward, reread it. Just do anything to stay engaged. Now from Friday afternoon until Sunday after church I never touched a book (just to keep me sane).

I hope this might shed some light on the subject, those are just a couple of things that helped me.

During academics, study the CAI courseware AND the -1. Most dudes won't touch the -1 before hitting the flightline, but they're doing a disservice to themselves. The -1 is the source document. Reading it along with the CAIs will give you a much more thorough understanding of the aircraft.

And read the threads Toro posted. That info is golden (especially the posts by Beerman and Danny Noonin).

Edited January 26, 2011 by Seriously

[nsplayr]

I have heard...it's dog eat dog...

I'm not a pilot, but cooperate to graduate man, can't go wrong with that. Doing well should not trump being a good bro (within the bounds of what's legal and right), and frankly doing well is more difficult if you're not.

Also, probably should move this to the "road to wings" section. Take heed of those who have asked dumber questions here and gotten their nuts hammered. Technique only, make your second post in about 6 months after you've read all you can handle and opened your ears for a little while or at least stick to the road to wings section as needed.

Good luck to you.

[HU&W]

1. It's cool to want a fighter or even a specific plane. But DO NOT badmouth other planes even jokingly as you have no credibility at all yet. If you get asked what you want to fly by an IP, answer straight and then ask them about their plane. Get as much knowledge as possible and you might surprise yourself.

2. It's not about being better than the other studs, it's about maximizing your own performance. On drop night, you will basically know what everybody wants. And, every list will be different. After a year studying together, flying form together, sharing multiple failures, and growing as aviators you will cheer with them or shed a tear with them. Don't make the mistake of thinking that winning the competition for a specific aircraft means beating your bros.

3. When it comes time for the drop, ask for what you think you want but love whatever you get. There are serious pros and cons associated with every single assignment out of UPT. Enjoy UPT while you're there, but the best thing you can do is leave with a set of wings and a good attitude.

[Infamous]

1. It's cool to want a fighter or even a specific plane. But DO NOT badmouth other planes even jokingly as you have no credibility at all yet. If you get asked what you want to fly by an IP, answer straight and then ask them about their plane. Get as much knowledge as possible and you might surprise yourself.

2. It's not about being better than the other studs, it's about maximizing your own performance. On drop night, you will basically know what everybody wants. And, every list will be different. After a year studying together, flying form together, sharing multiple failures, and growing as aviators you will cheer with them or shed a tear with them. Don't make the mistake of thinking that winning the competition for a specific aircraft means beating your bros.

3. When it comes time for the drop, ask for what you think you want but love whatever you get. There are serious pros and cons associated with every single assignment out of UPT. Enjoy UPT while you're there, but the best thing you can do is leave with a set of wings and a good attitude.

Great post.

To the OP... While UPT is in a sense a "competition," you cannot control how anyone else does in the program except yourself. The only way I suppose you could is by sabotaging other people which would be ridiculous... Don't be that guy that looks at others gradebooks to see where you stack or worry about how others are doing. Do YOUR best and whatever happens at your track select/assignment night is what is supposed to happen.

Also don't forget to keep things in perspective and remember what you already have... After graduating college I was working an 8-5 job in a cubicle before earning the opportunity to attend OTS to become a pilot. It sucks as much as you think it does. There are a lot of people in this world working pretty boring jobs/jobs they hate and would have done anything to become an Air Force pilot. I was one of them, but fortunately things have worked out for me.

And you're getting way ahead of yourself... Focus right now on getting yourself through IFS and mentally preparing yourself for the rigors of ASBC. Your first deployment in Alabamastan is going to be rough.

[Guest]

Study your ass off, stay focused all the way through, don't compete against your classmates, let people know you want to fly a fighter (only when they ask), help your classmates whenever possible and don't panic in the jet. Especially the last one.

If you can fly you'll be fine. If you can't fly it's a crap shoot.

[HiFlyer]

The fundamental mistake in your assumption is the idea that you are competing against your classmates. You are not. You may be "ranked" against them, but you are competing against the syllabus. Its a little like golf...you play against the course, not the other players. The ranking only describes how you did against the course relative to others. In flight training, it's you and your ability to absorb knowledge of the airplane, the systems, the procedures, etc. The more you can all work together to help each other, the better you and your classmates will do.

[aspec]

Be yourself, study like your career depends on it (because it does) and the rest will work itself out or is out of your control (like AFPC being in idle or max with fighter assignments).

[mhc257]

Is this post a joke? Just be a bro.

[Sneedro]

IPs might take offense if you show up acting like billy badass (probably because they wanted fighters and it wasn't in the stars for them).

Are you fucking kidding me, we are offended because we couldnt get a fighter? I know it may be hard to believe based on your vast flying experience, but not all IP's wanted a fighter. Yes some did and didnt get one, but that doesnt mean they are going to take it out on the studs. Those dudes are still good guys however. What we take offense to is someone showing up like "billy badass" who thinks he/she is owed a fighter spot. I could care less what my students want to fly. Tell me straight up when I ask and I will help you get there, but dont blow smoke up my ass hoping for better grades because we will see right through that.

So what can you do? Study, work with your bros, and ask questions! Too many studs are afraid to ask IPs questions. That is what we are there for so ask. I guarantee if you show a good work ethic and are studying, we will go out of our way to help you out.

[zmoney]

Have goals- more like have realistic goals. Don't show up day 1 and say "I'm here to fly an F-XX." That may be your personal goal (and thats all good) but know your place. IPs might take offense if you show up acting like billy badass (probably because they wanted fighters and it wasn't in the stars for them). I would set goals for each phase and it kept me focused (Eg. 100% on Tests, T-1/-38 at Track select, Fighter/Bomber/etc on assignment night).

Troll.

[Danakonda]

whoa. My apologies. I truly wasn't meaning to offend anyone and I have tremendous respect for the IPs that trained me. That jab was pointless. The point was not to show up and show any sense of entitlement. As mentioned before, just be a bro.

[TreeA10]

Observations as a T-38 IP:

1. Your most important concern is what you are doing next like the next training sortie, the next test. What happens in a year doesn't matter if you don't prepare for tomorrow because you won't be there in a year if you can't get past tomorrow.

2. UPT success is sort of like golf. You are competing against yourself. What your classmates say about how good or bad they are is strictly their opinion and usually wrong. With that being said, UPT survival is a team sport. You will learn a lot by helping others.

3. Your Instructors will work as hard as you do to keep you in the program or extend your ability or knowledge. If you do not give a rats ass, neither will they and you will wither and die on the vine.

4. Have fun. Starting somewhere around Friday evening to Sunday afternoon, you should not be anywhere near a -1 if you can help it.

[HiFlyer]

Observations as a T-38 IP:

1. Your most important concern is what you are doing next like the next training sortie, the next test. What happens in a year doesn't matter if you don't prepare for tomorrow because you won't be there in a year if you can't get past tomorrow.

2. UPT success is sort of like golf. You are competing against yourself. What your classmates say about how good or bad they are is strictly their opinion and usually wrong. With that being said, UPT survival is a team sport. You will learn a lot by helping others.

3. Your Instructors will work as hard as you do to keep you in the program or extend your ability or knowledge. If you do not give a rats ass, neither will they and you will wither and die on the vine.

4. Have fun. Starting somewhere around Friday evening to Sunday afternoon, you should not be anywhere near a -1 if you can help it.

Good to see this. Things haven't changed one iota since I was a T-38 IP 38 years ago! I always told my studs that if they weren't having fun in UPT they were in the wrong business. Stressful, yes, but fun, too!

[AEWingsMN]

Are you fucking kidding me, we are offended because we couldnt get a fighter? I know it may be hard to believe based on your vast flying experience, but not all IP's wanted a fighter. Yes some did and didnt get one, but that doesnt mean they are going to take it out on the studs.

And I have seen at least one IP that seemed to do such. Not even at my base, but definitely a case of where the bros I knew pretty well in that group under him definitely got that jive. Just cuz you don't apply to his statement doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Never ran into this at all on my way through UPT at my base, but again never say never.

[Wolf424]

Good to see this. Things haven't changed one iota since I was a T-38 IP 38 years ago! I always told my studs that if they weren't having fun in UPT they were in the wrong business. Stressful, yes, but fun, too!

Right after SERE, the most fun I never want to have again

[HU&W]

Good to see this. Things haven't changed one iota since I was a T-38 IP 38 years ago! I always told my studs that if they weren't having fun in UPT they were in the wrong business. Stressful, yes, but fun, too!

UPT taught me the difference between fun and awesome. During the entire UPT experience I could probably count on both hands the times I actually had "fun", and it was some of the most fun I've ever had in my life. However, I didn't ever go more than a few days without experiencing something that was just awesome. For me "fun" requires a level of relaxation during the awesome stuff that UPT rarely allows (mostly due to death avoidance).

[Learjetter]

Study your ass off, stay focused all the way through, don't compete against your classmates, let people know you want to fly a fighter (only when they ask), help your classmates whenever possible and don't panic in the jet. Especially the last one.

If you can fly and think you'll be fine. If you can't fly or think it's a crap shoot.

FIFY.

My $.02: Airmanship didn't get nearly enough discussion when I was in UPT (probably because we were still trying to figure out how to strap on a jet until track-select). After graduation, I had a bit of time until my follow-on training, and I spent some time at the lake with my IPs and re-analyzed my performance as a student. During UPT, I found over time that when I displayed it (usually inadvertantly) my IPs were invariably more "kind" to me on the gradesheet--willing to overlook minor "hands" flaws--if they thought my brain was fully engaged and properly analyzing/operating/reacting. This apparent advantage led me to try to figure out how my SA/GK/Airmanship could be "on" one day and "off" on another. Turns out, for me, when I learned the "why?" behind the differing rule sets, boldface, CAPs, emergency procedures, aircraft system design, instrument procedures, etc., I was able to synthesize more data more rapidly and make better decisions. When I made better decisions without IP input, my flaws in holding perfect wingtip position were viewed as "minor" deviations. IPs told me that they picked me to fly certain missions with because I displayed a good level of GK (and my hands weren't that bad). Also, what they didn't like was studs committing the same mistakes over and over, such that they could tell from a maneuver entry that this stud is going to make mistake A, then B, and sure enough that's exactly what happened. If a stud learned from that experience, that was great, but what was even better was the stud who terminated and reset rather than proceed because they didn't know any better and didn't see the mistakes coming.

Enough ancient history/theory. UPT is a challenging year. Gain, and exploit, the information you're expected to study, ask questions, then make increasingly better decisions with each sortie/debrief, and the rest will take care of itself.

Good luck! (oh yeah--don't suck--no amount of GK can save you if you try to kill an IP, or worse, get him violated)

[osulax05]

I agree with learjetter, if you try to learn the "why?" behind things as opposed to just memorizing numbers and procedures you will likely perform much better because you have a more thorough understanding of what you are doing. Also, this is the only time in your career where your only job is to (learn how to) fly. Take advantage of it and build a solid foundation that will last you your entire flying career.

[Guest]

Yes some did and didnt get one, but that doesnt mean they are going to take it out on the studs.

Depends on what you mean by "take it out on the studs."

Every community has guys with chips on their shoulders.

FAIPs are probably the single group most entitled (edit: except Predator guys) to have a chip and it is a good thing so few do. Few, but still some.

Edited January 28, 2011 by Rainman A-10

[HerkDerka]

During UPT, I found over time that when I displayed it (usually inadvertantly) my IPs were invariably more "kind" to me on the gradesheet--willing to overlook minor "hands" flaws--if they thought my brain was fully engaged and properly analyzing/operating/reacting. This apparent advantage led me to try to figure out how my SA/GK/Airmanship could be "on" one day and "off" on another. Turns out, for me, when I learned the "why?" behind the differing rule sets, boldface, CAPs, emergency procedures, aircraft system design, instrument procedures, etc., I was able to synthesize more data more rapidly and make better decisions. When I made better decisions without IP input, my flaws in holding perfect wingtip position were viewed as "minor" deviations. IPs told me that they picked me to fly certain missions with because I displayed a good level of GK (and my hands weren't that bad). Also, what they didn't like was studs committing the same mistakes over and over, such that they could tell from a maneuver entry that this stud is going to make mistake A, then B, and sure enough that's exactly what happened. If a stud learned from that experience, that was great, but what was even better was the stud who terminated and reset rather than proceed because they didn't know any better and didn't see the mistakes coming.

Perfection. UPT studs take note, this is what we want to see.

[brewskis]

Call me an idiot, but I think I probably speak for most of the new 'studs that are reading this (because we want to learn). What exactly does 'GK' stand for and what does it mean?

[magnetfreezer]

Call me an idiot, but I think I probably speak for most of the new 'studs that are reading this (because we want to learn). What exactly does 'GK' stand for and what does it mean?

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