Two USAF Airmen soldiers shot dead at Frankfurt airport

[Guest AFsock]

I know it's low threat out this way (not like the Rio), but we get briefed on all the same things out here. Don't place stickers on your cars, don't flash your uniform around the wrong crowds, etc. and every car driven by an American is marked with a Y on bright yellow plates. Away from the cops, there's an entire island of helpless U.S. servicemen and their families out here (and we can't even have weapons off base).

Take the guns away with laws and only the criminals (and terrorists) have em...

RIP Airmen

[Steve Davies]

Being serious, even when Americans dress in civilian clothes, they stand out like a sore thumb in Europe (just as Europeans do in America, I would imagine). If you do want to blend in with the locals, consider going native and buying your clothes from local retailers.

Do they even sell those things in other countries? Better yet, are we actually buying them in America and then hauling the damn things across the world?

Exactly what I thought. AFAIK, no, those busses are not domestically manufactured over here. I believe that they are shipped over from the US.

[TreeA10]

Being serious, even when Americans dress in civilian clothes, they stand out like a sore thumb in Europe (just as Europeans do in America, I would imagine). If you do want to blend in with the locals, consider going native and buying your clothes from local retailers.

Or you could just wear something with a giant red maple leaf and let everyone think you are Canadian.

[Techsan]

Or you could just wear something with a giant red maple leaf and let everyone think you are Canadian.

Excellent idea, eh

[HU&W]

Just found out one of the victims was from my old squadron. The world really is a small place. Thoughts and prayers with the families.

[Majestik Møøse]

Or you could just wear something with a giant red maple leaf and let everyone think you are Canadian.

And a blue jean jacket, just to be safe.

[zrooster99]

And a blue jean jacket, just to be safe.

Canadian Tuxedo

[GovernmentMan]

Location: Laughlin AFB

Must be rough in Del Rio.

Funny, but point missed. I don't give two shits if the guy driving behind me knows which wars I'm a vet of (bumper stickers, etc.)...it's a tiny but preventable risk, regardless of where you are. Why take it? An NRA bumper sticker would probably be a more effective deterent.

Anyways, that's complete apples/oranges from the original topic. , gentlemen.

[Hacker]

Or you could just wear something with a giant red maple leaf and let everyone think you are Canadian.

I don't understand why so many Americans like this strategy to "blend in" in Europe. Doesn't work.

[PapaJu]

I don't understand why so many Americans like this strategy to "blend in" in Europe. Doesn't work.

Agreed. Nor is it at all necessary in my experience. I'm curious what the usual security is around a busload of American military personnel like this in Germany. I'm guessing it's none given how long we've been there, though there have been incidents against them before.

[Bergman]

Incidents like this are such a shame. I wonder how many of these things could be prevented, or at least fatalities minimized, by a few well-armed citizens? Think VA Tech, Ft. Hood, etc.

Speak softly and carry a concealed .45 has been my new motto ever since THIS happened to two kids. If they raffled off tickets to get to flip the switch on the fuckers that did it, I'd be first in line. Same thing goes for the douchebag in Germany.

Edited March 4, 2011 by Bergman

[Alpharatz]

Jabbering recently with one of my pals about carrying pistols...for once we both agreed...Unless you are among friends pulling a pistol in public instantly makes you the enemy to L.E. A pistol is little comfort when things are heavy...A 12 bore is more comfort. If you have been drinking and pull the roscoe...you are likely "cooked". Inevitably when you carry it all the time you will drop it in front of the kids in your hurry to the beer cooler...TV to watch CSI etc. And laST..OVERALL oops It's a pain in the ass...Just be a good witness if you can.

If you drive in Western Europe and need something to worry about..worry about being killed in traffic.

Which reminds me..as an aside..If you are 25 y.o. and worried about retirement..you are not properly focused.

.............Why you would haul Bluebirds to Europe is a mystery to me.......Condolences to those who knew the victims.....

[Techsan]

German Officials: Suspect's pistol jammed

Good thing it jammed. Also good to hear that one of the airmen chased down this asshole & subdued him.

Thoughts and prayers go out to the family.

[zrooster99]

German Officials: Suspect's pistol jammed

Good thing it jammed. Also good to hear that one of the airmen chased down this asshole & subdued him.

Thoughts and prayers go out to the family.

Hope "subdued" means "kicked the shit out of".

[uhhello]

Incidents like this are such a shame. I wonder how many of these things could be prevented, or at least fatalities minimized, by a few well-armed citizens? Think VA Tech, Ft. Hood, etc.

Speak softly and carry a concealed .45 has been my new motto ever since THIS happened to two kids. If they raffled off tickets to get to flip the switch on the ######ers that did it, I'd be first in line. Same thing goes for the douchebag in Germany.

How exactly would anyone being armed in this situation have prevented it? He shot one dude in the back of the head and immediately shot the driver. In other cases, yes an armed bystander would be great (hopefully) but in this case, not seeing it.

[M2]

How exactly would anyone being armed in this situation have prevented it? He shot one dude in the back of the head and immediately shot the driver. In other cases, yes an armed bystander would be great (hopefully) but in this case, not seeing it.

It may have not prevented it, but it sure as hell could have ended it sooner!

As the article stated, the "suspect" had his pistol jam; had that not happened God knows how many people he could have shot/killed! Uka could have easily caused a much higher casualty count.

We also exhibited poor OPSEC especially if the bus was of the typical "Blue Bird" type. We displayed a predictable pattern that was easily observable. It is not known if Uka had done any surveillance prior to the incident, but if he had it would have been easy for him.

It is nearly impossible to prevent this kind of attack, but you can sure has hell significantly reduce the threat and vulnerability, and therefore the risk, of it happening. I hope the death of these two airmen was not in vain, that we take a better look at our day-to-day activities from a FP/AT perspective. Otherwise, we are simply going to see similar attacks in the future...

to the two airmen that lost their lives, SrA Nicholas J. Alden and A1C Zachary R. Cuddeback!

[uhhello]

It may have not prevented it, but it sure as hell could have ended it sooner!

As the article stated, the "suspect" had his pistol jam; had that not happened God knows how many people he could have shot/killed! Uka could have easily caused a much higher casualty count.

We also exhibited poor OPSEC especially if the bus was of the typical "Blue Bird" type. We displayed a predictable pattern that was easily observable. It is not known if Uka had done any surveillance prior to the incident, but if he had it would have been easy for him.

It is nearly impossible to prevent this kind of attack, but you can sure has hell significantly reduce the threat and vulnerability, and therefore the risk, of it happening. I hope the death of these two airmen was not in vain, that we take a better look at our day-to-day activities from a FP/AT perspective. Otherwise, we are simply going to see similar attacks in the future...

to the two airmen that lost their lives, SrA Nicholas J. Alden and A1C Zachary R. Cuddeback!

I knew the "stopped further bloodshed" part was coming. Rightfully so.

[Majestik Møøse]

I don't understand why so many Americans like this strategy to "blend in" in Europe. Doesn't work.

Camouflage doesn't make you invisible, it just reduces the distance at which you can be seen. Yeah, you can ID an American in a foreign country from 50 yards (farther if we're in a conversation about airplanes or spouting Dumb and Dumber quotes), but you can see an Blue Bird from a half mile, and you know it's filled with targets.

I don't know, I'm just talking out of my ass. But it makes sense to me. Try to blend in as much as possible and don't make it a turkey shoot for assholes like this. Make him spend more time looking for targets during which time he may do something to get caught.

[contraildash]

I found out about this shooting just as I went into crew rest for a flight to Kosovo. It hit pretty close to home. Not knowing the circumstances around the shooting, I thought I'd be getting a call stating our mission was delayed or postponed. We still went, although we had a few armed Germans come along last minute to provide security for our passenger.

We didn't really know what to expect down in Kosovo. By now we had gotten word that this was most likely an isolated incident, that said we still figured we'd just be hanging out with security watching our jet for the day. In reality, it was an entirely different experience. Every Kosovar we met expressed sympathy and condolences for what happened. There was also a lot of anger towards the guy that did it. (supposedly his family was from Kosovo, but he has been living here in Germany for a while).

The biggest surprise was the gratitude they declared for the United States. "If it wasn't for you and your allies, we wouldn't be Kosovo". We ended up changing into civi's and went downtown for lunch. Bill Clinton was everywhere. Bill Clinton street, huge Bill Clinton posters, even a big statue of him. Apparently they love the guy there. So instead of being stuck on the airport, I enjoyed a pretty damn good lunch and got to meet some great folks down there.

Returning home I was welcomed with some very saddening news. One of the airmen killed was a guy I played hockey with. While I didn't know him all that great, the last practice I was at with him was a memorable one. He took a puck just above the eye and was bleeding all over. When asked if he was ok he replied: "it's superficial, there's no crying in hockey"

Godspeed Zachary.

This morning at Ramstein, a few thousand people lined the streets of base to honor the funeral procession as the two airmen started their final journey home. It was very sobering and at the same time amazing to see that many people show up.

[Toro]

As contraildash said, a couple thousand people showed up Saturday for a final salute to our fallen airmen.

Godspeed SrA Nicholas Alden and A1C Zachary Cuddeback

[Toro]

General Welsh just presented the USAFE Medal of Distinction to a German doctor who saved the lives of two airmen on the bus from that day. Good read.

COMUSAFE presents medal of distinction to German doctor

Excerpt:

Staff Sgt. Kristoffer Schneider and Senior Airman Edgar Veguilla, also with the 48th SFS, were transported with life threatening injuries to the Johann-von-Goethe University Clinic Emergency Hospital in Frankfurt into the care of Zacharowski.

"The first night no one thought Sergeant Schneider would survive," General Welsh said. "Over the next two weeks Dr. Zacharowski led the effort to mend [Airman Veguilla,] repairing his ribs, his jaw and his arm; and to somehow bring Staff Sgt. Kris Schneider back from death, because that's where he was. Slowly, the magic the medical team performed, and some other power they brought to the effort, turned the tide. It was an unbelievable thing to watch."

The general went on to share that the doctor truly went above and beyond, sharing that Dr. Zacharowski not only cancelled a conference for which he was scheduled to be the keynote speaker, but he also cancelled the family vacation that he, his wife and their two sons were to take a few days later. Even as his wife fell ill and was hospitalized, he never stopped caring for the two Airmen.

Airman Veguilla, who is back on duty and currently preparing for an upcoming deployment, traveled to Ramstein so he could thank the doctor in person.

"Here I am a year later, in uniform, and still in the military," Airman Veguilla said. "For the longest time I've been wanting to do this, I want to salute you. Thank you so much for everything you have done for me and Sergeant Schneider."

[M2]

An excellent way to honor the man that saved her father's life! Schneider's wife's comments...

You meant the world to us then, and you still do to this day. When we found out we were expecting a baby there was no question for either Kris or I; whether it was going to be a boy or girl, we knew we were going to name our baby after you. So this is Kairee Schneider and she is three months old as of yesterday. Thank you so much and you will always be part of our family.

:beer: to you, Dr. Kai Zacharowski!