ol-IEWO Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 What would be the outcome if a situation similar to this occurred in the modern Air Force? Wayne Hague always wondered whatever happened to the pilot whose crippled plane he refueled and escorted to safety over North Vietnam in 1967. Ron Catton always wondered about that pilot who kept him from having to bail out of his F-4C Phantom fighter and into a suite at the "Hanoi Hilton," the nickname for an infamous North Vietnamese prison. Due to copyright restrictions, to read the story, go to here
SuperWSO Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 We still tell enough stories like this one, and Pardo's push that I hope guys still understand that you always bring a brother home and then deal with the fallout.
Majestik Møøse Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 What would be the outcome if a situation similar to this occurred in the modern Air Force? These days, assuming the tanker crew hadn't already called bingo 10K high and left country, would never even get close to the border for fear of getting instantly Q3d by Joe Biden himself (even the boom who was thoughtfully making pizza at the time) for encroaching upon the same "allied" airspace that they were just legally transiting through a few hours ago. If the tanker could manage to coordinate through Wizard with people thousands of miles away to forgo the important mission of refueling Wizard, they might get cleared to take the blatantly more important tasking, assuming they didn't have to consolidate from a 135 that would otherwise have to dump fuel to land. For the joinup, the tanker pilots would be eyes inside dealing with some random system fault, thus unknowingly starting a low-SA turn into the fighter at 6 miles, not helped by the fighter strangling his squawk and yardstick to keep that very thing from happening. As the fighter lag-rolls into the contact position, the boom is still going through his checklist and the engineer is using spaghetti charts to calculate what speeds they can fly and how much gas they can give. Which sucks because they've both been asleep for the past hour with nothing to do. The fighter would call nosecoldswitchessafetailnumber6900003432201 and promptly fire off a flare while trying to plug himself. Yes, that actually happened a week ago. The fighter pilot would spend the rest of the RTB complaining about the sun being in his eyes and the tanker pilots would fix the problem (maybe on purpose) by flying through clouds and moderate-high turbulence. Everybody's and fighter aft-disconnects himself and leaves without saying a word. The tanker crew goes home and never debriefs anything while the fighter pilot spends six hours recreating the entire event from memory on a whiteboard. Three years later all the pilots are reunited at Creech while the boom and engineer have logged 12 more deployments. PA ignores the entire story, instead focusing on the Wing CC giving an award to some guy that installs air conditioners. Also actually happened a week ago. I think I got it all.Also, this excerpt is the epitome of awesome: Olds, who had been chasing the first MiG, gave up a chance for a kill to run off the three that were after Catton's plane. "Here he came, lobbing missiles over my head at the MiGs," Catton said. The MiGs high-tailed it, with Olds in pursuit. Robin Olds chasing three MiGs off into the sunset. That guy was a comic book superhero. 16
outbreak Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 If the tanker could manage to coordinate through Wizard with people thousands of miles away to forgo the important mission of refueling Wizard, they might get cleared to take the blatantly more important tasking, assuming they didn't have to consolidate from a 135 that would otherwise have to dump fuel to land. True story. We had an airplane broke on an LZ, coordinating an MRT through CTII and Sat-phone. OGV storms into our ops room demanding to know what's taking so long, and why the AC of the broke airplane isn't glued to the Sat-phone and hovering over the laptop; he wants constant updates. That's why we pay thousands of dollars for these systems. The SQ/DO says, "Yeah, can you imagine if we didn't have these expensive comm systems? That airplane would have been home three hours ago." It's funny as an O-2 when you see an O-5 drag another O-5 out of the building and puts him at attention for "counseling."
Guest Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Robin Olds chasing three MiGs off into the sunset. That guy was a comic book superhero. That can still be done today. It's just an attitude about attacking the enemy to the full extent of your capabilities whenever the opportunity to do so presents itself. The reality is that attitude is rarely found but no less now than it was when Olds was doing it.
Hammer Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 assuming the tanker crew hadn't already called bingo 10K high and left country, For the joinup, the tanker pilots would be eyes inside dealing with some random system fault, thus unknowingly starting a low-SA turn into the fighter at 6 miles. The tanker crew goes home and never debriefs anything while the fighter pilot spends six hours recreating the entire event from memory on a whiteboard. Don't lump guard guys in with active duty tanker crews...
MKopack Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 In a similar story, early in Desert Storm a KC-135 flew way into Iraqi airspace to rescue an F-16 returning from an airstrike (might have been one of my unit's acft) - may have been a similar outcome as well, I know that they were awarded after the war for the flight, but would bet that they were probably second-guessed not long after touching down.
Guest Crew Report Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 In a similar story, early in Desert Storm a KC-135 flew way into Iraqi airspace to rescue an F-16 returning from an airstrike (might have been one of my unit's acft) - may have been a similar outcome as well, I know that they were awarded after the war for the flight, but would bet that they were probably second-guessed not long after touching down. The Nav probably got lost.
JarheadBoom Posted March 8, 2011 Posted March 8, 2011 The tanker crew goes home and never debriefs anything And that's how we stay out of trouble, for using common sense and initiative to get the fucking job done. [/sarcasm... but not that much]
Login Name Posted March 8, 2011 Posted March 8, 2011 It's just an attitude about attacking the enemy to the full extent of your capabilities whenever the opportunity to do so presents itself. The reality is that attitude is rarely found but no less now than it was when Olds was doing it. The 13th Bullfrog, (oldest active duty SEAL) retired in 2009, CAPT Peter Wikul. His 3 Rules were... 1. Take care of your people, they are your most important assets 2. Never compromise your personal integrity 3. Prepare for total war. When called upon to fight, win.
ExBoneOSO Posted March 8, 2011 Posted March 8, 2011 The 13th Bullfrog, (oldest active duty SEAL) retired in 2009, CAPT Peter Wikul. His 3 Rules were... 1. Take care of your people, they are your most important assets 2. Never compromise your personal integrity 3. Prepare for total war. When called upon to fight, win. Those words need to be posted in every squadron -
BQZip01 Posted March 10, 2011 Posted March 10, 2011 The Nav probably got lost. Pilot probably got lost without a Nav... Those words need to be posted in every squadron - They are posted in my flight room now
Guest Crew Report Posted March 10, 2011 Posted March 10, 2011 Pilot probably got lost without a Nav... Here's the IN of the Quarter in my squadron recently. 1
Guest Posted March 10, 2011 Posted March 10, 2011 The 13th Bullfrog, (oldest active duty SEAL) retired in 2009, CAPT Peter Wikul. His 3 Rules were... 1. Take care of your people, they are your most important assets 2. Never compromise your personal integrity 3. Prepare for total war. When called upon to fight, win. Fuckin-A
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