F-35 Lightning info

[HiFlyer]

For you who follow such things, here's a little blurb from the web (Av Week site, David Fulghum) about the F-35:

"There were troubling words from the Air Force about the F-35A. The inability to demonstrate the Joint Strike Fighters ability to conduct offensive counter air and suppression as well as the destruction of enemy air defense in heavily defended environments is going to delay the strike fighters operational debut by another two years.

Last summer, the Air Force estimated that F-35's IOC would be declared in 2016. But when an analysis is complete later this year, we currently expect up to a two-year delay that will push establishment of the first operational unit into 2018, Shackleford says."

The name "Shackleford" refers to Lt. Gen. Mark Shackleford, military deputy to the assistant secretary of the Air Force for acquisitions.

Edited March 17, 2011 by HiFlyer

[Guest 12XU2A3X3]

"The inability to demonstrate..."

that's pretty vague but i suppose it has to be.

[MKopack]

(12XU2A3X3 just beat me to it...)

I wonder if the "inability to demonstrate" is due to the lagging flight test schedule, or it is a sign of a deeper issue.

On the bright side, ten years from now we might be seeing brand new fighters refueling from brand new tankers...

Edited March 17, 2011 by MKopack

[MT near]

Who designs a CAS airplane with no CCIP??????? That program irritates me.

[HiFlyer]

"The inability to demonstrate..."

that's pretty vague but i suppose it has to be.

I suspect it is related to things other than the airframe (all that magic electrical stuff, for instance) but I may be wrong.

[Bullet]

It simply means that the test delays announced earlier this year mean that it the Initial Ops Testing won't be done in time to meet the current schedule, which was announced last year as 2016.

More importantly, it means the AF is publicly stating that we won't settle for anything less than what we said we needed this jet to have when test is done. I really don't think the AF wants to go down the F-22 route again, declaring mission ready without some very important capabilities (like a JHMCS)only because folks in Congress pressured us to "finally get it finished". We're still playing catch-up with the Raptor because of it.

So, good on Lt Gen Shackleford for sticking to his guns on this one (sts).

BTW, the AF should be accepting their first two F-35As within a couple of weeks; going to Edwards. Should get six more to Eglin by the end of the summer.

[FlyinGrunt]

Who designs a CAS airplane with no CCIP??????? That program irritates me.

WTF? Can you source that? I'd like to know what else (other than small payload, esp for the gun) they are screwing up.

[Clayton Bigsby]

Uhh, all 10 F-35s are grounded following a double-generator failure sustained inflight by an F-35A at EDW. So look for that timetable being slowed a bit.

Here's the beef

JSF Grounded For Generator Failure, Leak

By Colin Clark Friday, March 11th, 2011 6:13 pm

The entire F-35 fleet has been grounded pending an investigation into what caused a dual generator failure and an oil leak during flight tests of AF-4 at Edwards Air Force Base.

“The jet returned safely to base. As a routine safety precaution, the Joint Program Office (JPO) has temporarily suspended F-35 flight operations until a team of JPO and LM technical experts determines the root cause of the generator failure and oil leak,” Lockheed Martin F-35 spokesman John Kent said in a press statement.

The aircraft in question arrived at Edwards in late January and was the fifth F-35A conventional takeoff and landing aircraft to ferry there for testing.

The grounding appears to have occurred because of the potential for loss of control posed by such a combination. The F-35’s flight control surfaces are controlled by electro-hydrostatic actuators made by Moog. If they don’t have power then the pilot can lose control. In this case, the back-up power system — the Integrated Power Package which also serves as the starter and air conditioner — kicked in as designed, allowing the pilot to return to base.

Kent noted that the F-35 has now flown 657 flights and this appears to be the first time a flight has encountered this problem. “Once the cause is known, the appropriate repairs and improvements will be made before flight operations resume,” he said.

Read more: https://www.dodbuzz.com/2011/03/11/jsf-grounded-for-generator-failure-leak/#ixzz1GuYWRKTd

[HuggyU2]

Maybe Lockheed buys their generators from the same folks that supply the generators for the N-G Global Hawk.

Snap!!

[Bullet]

Uhh, all 10 F-35s are grounded following a double-generator failure sustained inflight by an F-35A at EDW. So look for that timetable being slowed a bit.

Correction: were grounded. Flying has already resumed for most of the fleet since they have different generators than the ones they're investigating. It does, however, affect the first two production A models, delaying delivery a bit.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Bullet

[Pod 26]

Maybe Lockheed buys their generators from the same folks that supply the generators for the N-G Global Hawk.

Snap!!

Ha! They must! I worked on that program from 2007 (shortly after it's first flight) to 2009 at EDW and it must have been the most irritating two years of my life. I am amazed at how many generator issues that thing is still having. That airplane is so behind schedule/over budget/fvcked up, it's unbelievable.

Last I heard about the F-35 at EDW was that testing was going great for the A model...

[HiFlyer]

Ha! They must! I worked on that program from 2007 (shortly after it's first flight) to 2009 at EDW and it must have been the most irritating two years of my life. I am amazed at how many generator issues that thing is still having. That airplane is so behind schedule/over budget/fvcked up, it's unbelievable.

Last I heard about the F-35 at EDW was that testing was going great for the A model...

Actually, I doubt if it was actually the generators. As I understand it, the two generators are mounted on a single shelf with power delivered to it via some kind of power-takeoff (a shaft connecting the shelf to the engine gearbox?). It was probably the PTO system that failed. Presumably, that's why the third generator is connected via some other method, avoiding a single-point failure mode.

[MT near]

WTF? Can you source that? I'd like to know what else (other than small payload, esp for the gun) they are screwing up.

That was straight from the mouth of the lockhead rep during a trip to their fighter demo lab in DC. Also have zero plans in the works to add one later.....good job guys!!

[Seriously]

Boyd is rolling over in his grave.

[Guest 12XU2A3X3]

Pierre Sprey has had a few things to say, but evidently is focused on this.

[M2]

Another delay...

F-35 Ground and Flight Operations Suspended: The F-35 program office on Wednesday suspended all F-35 ground and flight operations, as a precautionary measure, after an incident Tuesday with AF-4, an F-35A test aircraft, at Edwards AFB, Calif. AF-4's integrated power package, which provides power to start the engine and helps cool the aircraft, experienced a failure during a standard ground maintenance engine run, said F-35 spokesman Joe DellaVedova. Testers immediately shut down the engine and secured the aircraft, he said. There were no injuries to the pilot or ground crew, he noted. The standdown affects all 20 F-35s currently in flying status, said DellaVedova. This includes F-35 test aircraft and initial production units. "Determinations of root cause and potential mitigating actions have the highest priority of the F-35 team," said DellaVedova. "Once the facts are understood, a determination will be made when to lift the suspension." AF-4 is the same aircraft that experienced an in-flight anomaly at Edwards in early March that led to a temporary fleet-wide suspension of F-35 flight activities. This news comes as the F-22, the nation's other fifth generation fighter, nears the third month of a fleet-wide standdown due to concerns over its onboard oxygen-generation system.

[Guest]

Are we making it too complicated?

No problem with integrated power system or OBOGS with this one...

or this one...

[LoneStar]

2 on that!

[Chip]

Are we making it too complicated?

No problem with integrated power system or OBOGS with this one...

or this one...

Less buck rogers tech and more good ole fashioned warfighting effectiveness!

[spaw2001]

The F-35 needs to go participate in "canx'd flag." Know when to fold 'em

[Toto]

It is sad that in context, a state-of-the-art airplane could be developed, produced, tested, and operational on-time and on-budget in months or a few years during the 1910s-1950s and all the highly educated engineers and computerized manufacturing tools today cannot accomplish the same task. This really isn't good timing for the AF especially when Congress is trying to minimize DOD expenses.

[HossHarris]

The F-35 needs to go participate in "canx'd flag." Know when to fold 'em

Ha!

/Funny cause it's true

//Aggressor

///slashies

[Guest]

Who designs a CAS airplane with no CCIP??????? That program irritates me.

This CAS airplane had no CCIP for longer than it has had CCIP.

[Guest]

...yes, but somehow I doubt their plan for the F-35 is to have those guys drop out of HARS, Opt C, or Stby.

Or fly night combat sorties unaided with no CCIP...like WW Desert Storm.

One of the reasons My Secret War was and is my faviorite book...it was as good as 3-1 since the tactics were exactly the same, including using ADF in the wx in trail since the old INS sucked ass, epsecially by the third sortie.

Just sayin'...

[Almansur]

One of the reasons My Secret War was and is my faviorite book...it was as good as 3-1 since the tactics were exactly the same, including using ADF in the wx in trail since the old INS sucked ass, epsecially by the third sortie.

That's one great read. Got a signed copy! The A-1 was one heck of a bird!