F-35 Lightning info

[Lawman]

I just think it has a lot of cool things not of much use. Back in '08 I went to the factory to meet with engineers as I was doing a paper on some of the systems. While flying the sim I heard a lot of "this plane wasn't designed to do that" ie fly low, do bfm, strafe, etc.

I have the ability to control a grey eagle drone from the front seat but my ASE suite hasn't changed in the RF arena since 1991.... Lot of that going around.

[Clark Griswold]

Article from War is Boring on CMANO simulation of F-35B v Su-35

BLUF: shooting someone when they don't know you're there is a great tactic.

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/don-t-think-the-f-35-can-fight-it-does-in-this-realistic-war-game-fc10706ba9f4

[Majestik Møøse]

Dude, this is an article from a clueless website about the hypothetical results of a video game.

[JarheadBoom]

BLUF: shooting someone when they don't know you're there is a great tactic.

Huh. Never would have guessed that would be a valid tactic. Guess you learn something new every day.

HEY, I've got a great idea! Maybe we should have some Infantry types use that tactic, too...

[/sarcasm]

Edited July 19, 2015 by JarheadBoom

[Clark Griswold]

Dude, this is an article from a clueless website about the hypothetical results of a video game.

Wouldn't call them clueless but highly opinionated that sometimes keeps them from seeing the forest because the trees. I felt worthy of a repost for this august thread as it was a piece of good news for the besieged F-35 and while CMANO is a video game available to the public and only has publicly available knowledge on it, the simulation engine with the database it has available gives plausible results, just my opinion.

Huh. Never would have guessed that would be a valid tactic. Guess you learn something new every day.

HEY, I've got a great idea! Maybe we should have some Infantry types use that tactic, too...

[/sarcasm]

Just my summary of the simulation results for those who want the spoiler.

[Buddy Spike]

Wouldn't call them clueless but highly opinionated that sometimes keeps them from seeing the forest because the trees. I felt worthy of a repost for this august thread as it was a piece of good news for the besieged F-35 and while CMANO is a video game available to the public and only has publicly available knowledge on it, the simulation engine with the database it has available gives plausible results, just my opinion.

Just my summary of the simulation results for those who want the spoiler.

When you repost stuff from the nerds at war is boring, you only encourage them.

Baseless opinions from neckbeard hipster gamers at best.

[Clark Griswold]

Baseless opinions from neckbeard hipster gamers at best.

Hipsters?

Nah...

But I see your point, there is plenty of chaff on their site but occasionally wheat also.

[Buddy Spike]

Hipsters?

Nah...

But I see your point, there is plenty of chaff on their site but occasionally wheat also.

Pretty much, yes.

[HU&W]

B model's IOC.

The plane was declared operational with Marine squadron VMFA-121 by Gen. Joe Dunford, the outgoing Marine Corps commandant — and incoming chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff — in an announcement Friday. The squadron’s 10 F-35Bs are “capable of conducting close air support, offensive and defensive counter air, air interdiction, assault support escort and armed reconnaissance as part of a Marine Air Ground Task Force, or in support of the Joint Force," Dunford said in a statement

[ClearedHot]

[Seriously]

With that said, is it just me or does that guy not care too much about his career in the AF? I mean, good on him for being frank because we all really do deserve the down-and-dirty on the situation, but geez man, I wouldn't want to bring that unwanted attention to me if I was working on (or in a position to benefit from) the F-35 program.

The authors of the article blew that small piece of the video way out of proportion. He says the DAS has other more important functions than being able to look through the airplane and he mentions the other uses of the helmet as well. 

[RTB]

So this would appear to be a problem...

"In the latest hurdle for the Pentagon’s F-35 joint strike fighter, testers this summer discovered that a lightweight pilot’s neck could snap during a low-speed ejection."

https://www.defensenews.com/story/breaking-news/2015/10/14/f-35s-heavier-helmet-complicates-ejection-risks/73922710/

 

[Disregard]

"At least one F-35 pilot is grounded [for weighing less than 136 pounds], Defense News previously reported. However, the first and only female F-35 pilot, Lt. Col. Christina Mau, the 33rd Operations Group deputy command, is still flying the plane."

[Majestik Møøse]

"At least one F-35 pilot is grounded [for weighing less than 136 pounds], Defense News previously reported. However, the first and only female F-35 pilot, Lt. Col. Christina Mau, the 33rd Operations Group deputy command, is still flying the plane."

Dayyyum

[StoleIt]

Does the F-35 have a significantly different seat than all the other pointy nosed jets?

[TreeA10]

The seat has a much larger envelope regarding weight as compared to the ACES II.  IIRC, in the briefings I attended, pilots would wear a HANS device similar to race car drivers to account for the heavier helmet on smaller statured pilots. But that was over four years ago. 

[Smokin]

Minimum weight always seems to me to be a high tech problem with a low tech solution.  If it is purely a function of body weight, throw a couple pounds of sand into the already crazy getup they wear or even the seat kit.  Now the total weight the rockets are lifting are the same as a heavier pilot, so same acceleration.

[Lawman]

Minimum weight always seems to me to be a high tech problem with a low tech solution. If it is purely a function of body weight, throw a couple pounds of sand into the already crazy getup they wear or even the seat kit. Now the total weight the rockets are lifting are the same as a heavier pilot, so same acceleration.

Yeah but you're missing the point. It's another headline to put on Facebook and give a million aviation experts a chance to comment on how the whole program is an abject failure and how we would be better off with A-10s doing deep interdiction into a peer threat IADS or flying 25 year old vipers for another 30 years into same.

[di1630]

This is the first I've heard of any mention of A-10s doing deep interdiction. Nobody is that stupid..well except maybe current USAF leadership.

But if I had to bet $ on whether in 20 years we'll be doing semi-low intensity A/G in places like Iraq strafing jihadis or going deep into Russia for AI...I think most would put a bet on the 3rd world shltholes scenarios....except maybe USAF leadership...they are still hanging onto their youth dreams of killing Migs and conquering communism.

[brabus]

Good chance you're right, but doesn't mean we should bet the farm on it and get caught with our pants down.  Those who totally subscribe to the idea that we'll only do low intensity fights and will never need technology such as the F-35 have woefully low to zero SA on even current threats, let alone threats in the next 5-20 years.  A great example is right now - will force on force conflict start with Russia over a "mistake" in Syria, probably not.  But, sure wouldn't want to be completely unprepared for such a thing if it was to happen.  Not being prepared for a max amount of possibilities/contingencies is foolish.  And on top of all this, it's not like the F-35 is a "break in case of emergency" platform, it will fight these same fights, but with the benefit of not being fucked if "the hammer" drops tomorrow.

[Majestik Møøse]

I think the general consensus is that we need the F-35 no doubt, but that the $2B/year to keep flying A-10s is a great value considering our most likely COAs. And nobody believes that "saving money" by divesting airframes will actually reduce the overall budget.

[Lawman]

This is the first I've heard of any mention of A-10s doing deep interdiction. Nobody is that stupid..well except maybe current USAF leadership.

But if I had to bet $ on whether in 20 years we'll be doing semi-low intensity A/G in places like Iraq strafing jihadis or going deep into Russia for AI...I think most would put a bet on the 3rd world shltholes scenarios....except maybe USAF leadership...they are still hanging onto their youth dreams of killing Migs and conquering communism.

Nobody DI except the fanboys on Facebook that think any mission against any ground target the A-10 beats all players because brrrrrrt.

What I'm getting at is the combined population of F-35 critics, legacy airframe supporters, people who generally just hate military spending, etc.... They have all united about one thing, killing the F-35. Even today calls the cancel the whole program and walk away based off "cost savings."

And as much as people want to show YouTube videos of the pentagon wars and bitch about the military industrial complex, the F-35 like the Bradley before it will be a successful weapons system conceived in a nightmare of bureaucracy. For those not directly familiar with it the Bradley turned into an absolute workhorse, and that movie makes a hell of a lot of flat put BS statements based off rumors or interpretations by non-SMEs/people with access.... Sounds kinda familiar doesn't it.

[BFM this]

 Even today calls the cancel the whole program and walk away based off "cost savings."

Are you saying that there is zero merit to their arguments?  Military-Industrial Complex, my friend. Lessons should have been learned after Comanche was cancelled and the Raptor line was shuttered.  Lessons were learned, but not the ones that serve national security interests.  Instead, the MIC and those with shared interests learned to leverage ideas like "too big to fail", having involvement in as many and as important congressional districts as possible, and Foreign Military Sales partners who we just can't leave in the lurch (though they are all too willing to walk away from our Wizard of Oz prize project).

F-35 is going to yield a treasure trove of technological spin-offs. It has been a splendid (albeit expensive) research project, but the final thesis should be obvious: yes, you can drive nails with a torque wrench, but it's not cost-effective to do so.  Otherwise it's another F-111 with far better marketing and lobby efforts.  

Edited October 18, 2015 by BFM this

[Lawman]

Are you saying that there is zero merit to their arguments? Military-Industrial Complex, my friend. Lessons should have been learned after Comanche was cancelled and the Raptor line was shuttered. Lessons were learned, but not the ones that serve national security interests. Instead, the MIC and those with shared interests learned to leverage ideas like "too big to fail", having involvement in as many and as important congressional districts as possible, and Foreign Military Sales partners who we just can't leave in the lurch (though they are all too willing to walk away from our Wizard of Oz prize project).

F-35 is going to yield a treasure trove of technological spin-offs. It has been a splendid (albeit expensive) research project, but the final thesis should be obvious: yes, you can drive nails with a torque wrench, but it's not cost-effective to do so. Otherwise it's another F-111 with far better marketing and lobby efforts.

But those issues are not exclusive to the F-35.

The whole of development programs for the military over the last 25 years has been a game of political tie ins vs mission creep slowed development. Comanche, Armed Aerial Scout, the LCS, every one of those programs suffered as much or more than the 35 did from that problem. The only reason programs like the Super Hornet don't get the attention is they look like winners by comparison not because they were so well run.

That doesn't have anything to do with what the jet can or will do operationally. Being built in 50 states or tied in with partner nations doesn't have anything with its ability to go against SA10/20 vs using our current aircraft. And that's my problem with these hatcheted articles that get broadcast on social media like chum for people who have no reference but want to demand cancellation of this program because it's the one in the spotlight.

[di1630]

Nobody DI except the fanboys on Facebook that think any mission against any ground target the A-10 beats all players because brrrrrrt.

What I'm getting at is the combined population of F-35 critics, legacy airframe supporters, people who generally just hate military spending, etc.... They have all united about one thing, killing the F-35. Even today calls the cancel the whole program and walk away based off "cost savings."

And as much as people want to show YouTube videos of the pentagon wars and bitch about the military industrial complex, the F-35 like the Bradley before it will be a successful weapons system conceived in a nightmare of bureaucracy. For those not directly familiar with it the Bradley turned into an absolute workhorse, and that movie makes a hell of a lot of flat put BS statements based off rumors or interpretations by non-SMEs/people with access.... Sounds kinda familiar doesn't it.

I'm all for the F-35...but admit it's limitations, and stop preying on ignorance to get it funded at the expense of other needed capes....it's a viper replacement, and we need it. I just hate the shady politics, leadership lies and the program progress in general.

As for brrrrrt ability......after getting to fly jets with 20mm/pgm ability and recently getting to do CAS Alla B-1 style, I can't even begin to tell you the difference but it'd be something like going from an iPhone 6 to a 2005 Nokia and wondering why you can't text or check the weather as fast but arguing "well, I can still do it".

Not a hit on other airframes but the hog was built for CAS...and does it well. And I can't begin to describe the proficiency level and mission understanding that comes from a community that focuses 90% on the single mission vs multirole.

For payload, loiter time, cost, firepower, the hog is a bargain. And it's survivable...there double digit sams that suddenly have become the "survivability" selling point for the F-35 have been around for 30yrs...why do you think we designed B-2s?

And apparantly everything can survive a peer threat except an A-10....Nobody will talk about the lethal manpads and unjammable optical AAA though.