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F-35 Lightning info

HiFlyer

By HiFlyer
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HiFlyer
HiFlyer

Here's my input to the "great debate"... I admit that if I had a choice, an A-10 (or A-10-like) capability for a CAS mission would usually be my first choice in a survivable environment. However,

brabus
brabus

“While the F-35 was designed from the start to accommodate a short takeoff and vertical landing (STOVL) version, this requirement is absent from the Chinese design” Dammit, they didn’t take the b

Jaded
Jaded

It could hover over the top of the armor with its deck melting engine.

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SurelySerious Gray Beard

SurelySerious

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

No no, let’s talk around it! If the classification guide says particular capes are unclass, then we can aggregate all those capes here and discuss their employment and weaknesses!

Let me tweet a link to FSB first. 

  • 4 weeks later...
brabus Gray Beard

brabus

Posted
Posted

The B model is a perfect example of how fucked our requirements/acquisition process is. That said, I bet they’ll fly well past 2100 hrs, with a substantial profit for LM on the back of SLEP-related work. 

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Clark Griswold Gray Beard

Clark Griswold

Posted
Posted

SLEP and strengthen the airframe.  Forget STOVL, remove the fan, put in another fuel tank.  CTOL only ops.

Or turn the timed out B models into the worlds first LO FSAT QF-35s for TTP development against LO opponents.

 

brabus Gray Beard

brabus

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Clark Griswold said:

Forget STOVL, remove the fan, put in another fuel tank.  CTOL only ops

Makes too much sense, and threatens the Marine's MEU woobie.  They'll continue to prioritize protecting cultural norms and politics over fiscal responsibility and combat capability.  The best way to resolve this problem for all is shitcan the B-model and buy the Marines light attack (boat capable) to replace Harriers.  Everyone wins...which is why it won't happen.

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Clark Griswold Gray Beard

Clark Griswold

Posted
Posted
Makes too much sense, and threatens the Marine's MEU woobie.  They'll continue to prioritize protecting cultural norms and politics over fiscal responsibility and combat capability.  The best way to resolve this problem for all is shitcan the B-model and buy the Marines light attack (boat capable) to replace Harriers.  Everyone wins...which is why it won't happen.

Yup
Why the hell didn’t they realize the obvious after 20+ years of Harrier ops and ask for small conventional carriers and get a 35C capable of operating from a new smaller carrier (non-nuke) with amphib support capability?


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brabus Gray Beard

brabus

Posted
Posted

They don't even need the C - what they need is CAS for the ground unit in a permissive environment (light attack, etc).  There is no situation in which a MEU is going into a threat environment by themselves that requires 5th gen capes.  A MEU is not storming Iran's or China's beach by themselves, a MEU is not starting WW3 in Ukraine, etc.  The MEU concept is viable for rapid response to problems in 3rd world countries that aren't rocking operational IADs or even just a few autonomous S-300/400s.  If those things exist, the MEU is not going to be the answer for the problem.  Additionally, a Marine rifleman charging into Indonesia or Africa (for example) is far better supported by something purpose built for CAS - they should want light attack FW and RW, or something like a re-engined A-10 that can fly off the boat.  FWIW the Marine F-35 guys I've been around have done a great job learning and adapting to the new missions of the F-35, but their $100M aircraft and awesome OCA skills are going to be of low utility when their bros on the ground storm Embassy X and it's a classic 3-09.3 CAS fight.

  • Upvote 2
Clark Griswold Gray Beard

Clark Griswold

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, brabus said:

They don't even need the C - what they need is CAS for the ground unit in a permissive environment (light attack, etc).  There is no situation in which a MEU is going into a threat environment by themselves that requires 5th gen capes.  A MEU is not storming Iran's or China's beach by themselves, a MEU is not starting WW3 in Ukraine, etc.  The MEU concept is viable for rapid response to problems in 3rd world countries that aren't rocking operational IADs or even just a few autonomous S-300/400s.  If those things exist, the MEU is not going to be the answer for the problem.  Additionally, a Marine rifleman charging into Indonesia or Africa (for example) is far better supported by something purpose built for CAS - they should want light attack FW and RW, or something like a re-engined A-10 that can fly off the boat.  FWIW the Marine F-35 guys I've been around have done a great job learning and adapting to the new missions of the F-35, but their $100M aircraft and awesome OCA skills are going to be of low utility when their bros on the ground storm Embassy X and it's a classic 3-09.3 CAS fight.

Agreed - pretending they are really going to be fighting all alone for two weeks is just ridiculous.

As for a CAS focused asset to suggest for a revamp of USMC tactical aviation, an attack focused version of the yet to be built Sea Gripen would be my suggestion.  

Relatively low cost to acquire and operate, still in development so an attack focused variant is probably technically / financial feasible vice expensively modifying an in-production design. 

About $40 mil a tail and $4k per hour, relatively cheap in the military jet world.

Larger canards & loiter flaps , BLC for slower approach to a small deck carrier, more gas, more efficient engine, integrated EO/IR sensor, etc... launch off the boat and recover to it, launch off the boat then land at a captured austere airfield/road as the MEU moves inland from the beach with its STOL capability. 

Basically a modernized A-7 with some signature reduction and defensive A-A capability.

 

VMFA187 Gray Beard

VMFA187

Posted
Posted
On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 11:35 PM, Clark Griswold said:

Agreed - pretending they are really going to be fighting all alone for two weeks is just ridiculous.

Agreed.

While I can think of one situation in which the B model might provide some advantage - Being able to stage an aircraft with hi-capes from countless ships (targets), that potentiality is certainly not worth the cost in diminished capes to the A and C model.

We could, and would have been just fine with a mix of A and Cs, if we even needed them at all. Truth be told, Superhornets were the answer to our problem.

Clark Griswold Gray Beard

Clark Griswold

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, VMFA187 said:

Agreed.

While I can think of one situation in which the B model might provide some advantage - Being able to stage an aircraft with hi-capes from countless ships (targets), that potentiality is certainly not worth the cost in diminished capes to the A and C model.

We could, and would have been just fine with a mix of A and Cs, if we even needed them at all. Truth be told, Superhornets were the answer to our problem.

Yeah - the whole sorted history of the JSF/CALF is something to behold.

Giving up on the B model as it is now, STOVL, and modifying it would be my choice but as there are foreign buyers and a metric shit ton of politics at all levels this is likely not viable without some proof converting the B models to something else was viable.

Take a few of the early B models facing early fatigue life issues and begin the engineering experiment, as they likely will not see full service life the risk and life-cycle loss is relatively low.

New fuel tank, structural upgrades and improvements to the weapons bays that the B model had due to the lift fan.  

Getting rid of all this probably would open up a lot of possibilities for the B:

1920px-F-35B_STOVL_Engine_and_Lift_Fan.J

  • 1 month later...
Brick SNAP

Brick

Posted
Posted

I’ve seen some pictures coming out of RF 19-2 of 35As with external weapons mounted. Anyone have SA on this becoming a regular/more frequent thing?

  • Confused 1
RegularJoe Crew Dawg

RegularJoe

Posted
Posted (edited)

No no no.... I clearly remember the guy at the front desk said all weapons are carried internally. 😂 🙄

 

 

 

 

Edited by RegularJoe
Reference material
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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...
Clark Griswold Gray Beard

Clark Griswold

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Right Seat Driver said:

Color me fucking surprised. Buy your jackets from Pop's Leather while you can dudes.

Could be the beginning of the end of Turkey in NATO but I think that is a small possibility...  

The thing pushing this to even get close to happening is Russia's need for a partner to help cover development costs and lower per tail acquisition.  

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/russias-stealth-su-57-fighter-might-be-media-rockstar-it-has-big-problem-52602

 

MooseAg03 Gray Beard

MooseAg03

Posted
Posted

To quote the clever t-shirt I saw online yesterday - Turkey may “ingest a satchel of Richards”.

 

 

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