Max Use or Lose Leave

[C17Driver]

Shit, lost 34.5 days. Wish I had read this thread earlier.

What? The change takes affect this FY (Oct 13)

[Winchester]

What? The change takes affect this FY (Oct 13)

Yep, good catch misread all the 2012 to 2013 back and forth. Thanks

[nsplayr]

Yea...if you lost leave from FY12 you would have seen in on your most recent LES that came out a couple of days ago.

[matmacwc]

Dudes, the job will go on with out you, take your damn leave, and not on the weekends. Your family will thank you, the job won't even realize your gone, and if they do, screw em.

[HeloDude]

I have 42 days of use/lose...part me of me wants to take off every Monday just so I don't have to wear my blues again for a while.

[HossHarris]

I have 42 days of use/lose...part me of me wants to take off every Monday just so I don't have to wear my blues again for a while.

I did that for a while when the blues Monday policy came out .... 3 day weekends all the time are sweet

[HU&W]

A friend of mine once spent an entire year taking leave every Friday. The kicker was that he used the "half-day day-prior" thing to start his leave every Thursday at noon. 3.5 day work-weeks are where it's at.

[Guest]

Had to be a shoe clerk, right? What flying job could you have where that would even be possible?

[sky_king]

45 days of use/lose for me this year! Between that, deployment, tdy, holidays, etc., I'm hoping to spend about 3 hours in the office.

[HossHarris]

Anyone have any idea if there's a push anywhere to extend the 75 day max balance after fy12?

(Before i start burning leave)

[Flare]

My Oct LES still reflects 75 days that I can carry over (i.e. it says I have 30 days of use-lose, not 45). I wonder if they'll fix that glitch? If not, I'm betting that'll bite some folks 11 months from now.

[jetip]

I checked with our personnel folks today, and they said the 75 day leave gig ended 1 Oct 14. I had them confirm with our group (wing equivalent) and they also confirmed 1 Oct 14. My Oct LES also says I have 29 days U or L, with a balance of 76.5. I haven't seen anything come down the pipe with it ending before 1 Oct 14, which I did see.

[Winchester]

Dudes, the job will go on with out you, take your damn leave, and not on the weekends. Your family will thank you, the job won't even realize your gone, and if they do, screw em.

Must be nice in your squadron.

[sky_king]

This is why saving leave is nice. No commander wants to write the letter explaining why his troop was not allowed to use his earned leave. It gives a little more leverage when requesting.

[Boxhead]

When I had a bunch of use or loose, I would just go into the schedule, find days that no one had leave and the schedule could support it with no impact and take a Mon-Fri...usually decided that about the Friday before. Loved it. 3 weeks of work for about 6 months got me back down to a reasonable level. There were a couple of folks that thought somehow that was "abusing" the system. Then again, they were dumb.

[Flare]

From the Portal:

Expiration of Leave Carryover Extension

Section 504 of the FY 2010 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) included a provision extending the maximum leave carryover of 75 days through 30 September 2013. The DoD Office of General Counsel has determined that members were authorized to carry forward up to 75 days from FY 2012 to FY 2013, but all leave in excess of 60 days as of 30 September 2013, will be lost on 1 October 2013 (FY 2014), barring any additional changes to the law or policy on the subject.

Members who carried forward a balance of 75 days on 1 October 2012, will be required to reduce their leave to a total of 60 days NLT 30 Sept 2013 in order to prevent loss of leave.

Office of the Under Secretary of Defense (OUSD) Personnel & Readiness (P&R) indicates it is pursuing a statutory extension to the maximum leave carryover, but it has not yet been passed.

For more information on leave carryover extension or any other personnel related issue, visit the myPers website.

Given that, I'd be on track to use 45 unless they do come back and pass something extending the date.

[sweet I'm SOF]

A friend of mine once spent an entire year taking leave every Friday. The kicker was that he used the "half-day day-prior" thing to start his leave every Thursday at noon. 3.5 day work-weeks are where it's at.

Multiply that technique times every flyer in your squadron. I've seen a lot of spears thrown in here at support functions because they do not work full duty days and weeks. You are advocating 3.5 day work weeks. If everyone in your squadron did that, where would that leave the squadron? Monday through Thursday at noon. Forget whatever training we needed to accomplish on Thursday afternoon and Friday - we are entitled to those days off according to your buddy's logic.

It is that attitude that gives aircrew a bad name - because you blatently bash the support side of the AF for having restricted hours. The support side is not taking every 1.5 days off per week for leave. They are training during those hours that the doors are not open to customers. Think of it as time in the vault for you. They did not learn everything there is to know in tech school, just as you did not learn everything you needed to know in pilot training - they have to continue to train. Frustrating, yes. But when you complain about the support customer service hours and then blatently advertise the tales of "heroes" who take leave every Thursday afternoon until Monday - you are not in an improved position from the support folks' perspective. Your logic here has deteriorated.

To expand this further, your support troops deploy. And they build up leave. What if they followed our buddy's policy? You see where I'm going here yes?

Help your squadron out. Don't take every Thursday afternoon through Monday off. That is unsat - I cannot believe a squadron commander would put up with that. Manage your leave a little more reasonably than that nonsense. As someone posted before, the squadron will go on when you are not there, so take your leave. But whatever you do, multiply your action by the number of folks in your squadron...hopefully that will help you make a prudent decision. If your action multiplied by everyone in the unit would close the doors - you should probably rethink your action.

[Guest]

That is unsat - I cannot believe a squadron commander would put up with that. Manage your leave a little more reasonably than that nonsense.

...says the guy who has never had leave cancelled so many times that he has lost leave.

[sweet I'm SOF]

...says the guy who has never had leave cancelled so many times that he has lost leave.

A bold assertion indeed.

[Guest]

Yes indeed. Bold and accurate.

Again, you're the one blathering to people to "manage your leave" when sometimes that is not possible, often because the squadron CC or DO are the ones who cancel it.

It fucking happens all the time for a wide variety of reasons.

[Buenos Diaz]

Multiply that technique times every flyer in your squadron. I've seen a lot of spears thrown in here at support functions because they do not work full duty days and weeks. You are advocating 3.5 day work weeks. If everyone in your squadron did that, where would that leave the squadron? Monday through Thursday at noon. Forget whatever training we needed to accomplish on Thursday afternoon and Friday - we are entitled to those days off according to your buddy's logic.

It is that attitude that gives aircrew a bad name - because you blatently bash the support side of the AF for having restricted hours. The support side is not taking every 1.5 days off per week for leave. They are training during those hours that the doors are not open to customers. Think of it as time in the vault for you. They did not learn everything there is to know in tech school, just as you did not learn everything you needed to know in pilot training - they have to continue to train. Frustrating, yes. But when you complain about the support customer service hours and then blatently advertise the tales of "heroes" who take leave every Thursday afternoon until Monday - you are not in an improved position from the support folks' perspective. Your logic here has deteriorated.

To expand this further, your support troops deploy. And they build up leave. What if they followed our buddy's policy? You see where I'm going here yes?

Help your squadron out. Don't take every Thursday afternoon through Monday off. That is unsat - I cannot believe a squadron commander would put up with that. Manage your leave a little more reasonably than that nonsense. As someone posted before, the squadron will go on when you are not there, so take your leave. But whatever you do, multiply your action by the number of folks in your squadron...hopefully that will help you make a prudent decision. If your action multiplied by everyone in the unit would close the doors - you should probably rethink your action.

So "Sweet I'm SOF", who are you to dictate when someone should take leave? Have you ever had to tell someone they couldn't take leave or call them back from leave or had leave cancelled on you? I have had to do all three. I'm not sure if you realize this but every flying squadron I've ever been in or stepped foot in has had a 10% rule. No more than 10% of folks could be on leave at any one time. And there are plenty of times that number drops significantly. All the way to zero. I would be happy if the support side of the AF would leave 1 person at the desk during training hours, PT time, official functions, or whatever. Shutting the doors any time between 0730-1630 is unsat. The flying and MX squadrons don't do it ever, even when somebody takes leave on Friday. I can't count on one finger the number of missions my squadrons have had to cancel because of leave.

I may be mistaken but you still haven't stated your afsc, qual, airframe, E or O, etc.

I fly heavies, have been an evaluator, I was a SOF and a SUP at SUPT for a few years (also spent time in the container), taught SUPT in the T-37 and T-6, and am now flying a desk for the next 2.69 years. I've written a ton of OPRs, EPRs, civilian appraisals (GS and NSPS), award packages (that actually won), LORs, LOEs, PRFs, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

Put up or shut up!

Buenos

PS I can't believe I actually let this asshole get to me. Must of been a long week at work. Maybe I'll take Friday off.

Edit for spelling and to add that MX doesn't shut down either.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Buenos Diaz

[Champ Kind]

Multiply that technique times every flyer in your squadron. I've seen a lot of spears thrown in here at support functions because they do not work full duty days and weeks. You are advocating 3.5 day work weeks. If everyone in your squadron did that, where would that leave the squadron? Monday through Thursday at noon. Forget whatever training we needed to accomplish on Thursday afternoon and Friday - we are entitled to those days off according to your buddy's logic.

It is that attitude that gives aircrew a bad name - because you blatently bash the support side of the AF for having restricted hours. The support side is not taking every 1.5 days off per week for leave. They are training during those hours that the doors are not open to customers. Think of it as time in the vault for you. They did not learn everything there is to know in tech school, just as you did not learn everything you needed to know in pilot training - they have to continue to train. Frustrating, yes. But when you complain about the support customer service hours and then blatently advertise the tales of "heroes" who take leave every Thursday afternoon until Monday - you are not in an improved position from the support folks' perspective. Your logic here has deteriorated.

To expand this further, your support troops deploy. And they build up leave. What if they followed our buddy's policy? You see where I'm going here yes?

Help your squadron out. Don't take every Thursday afternoon through Monday off. That is unsat - I cannot believe a squadron commander would put up with that. Manage your leave a little more reasonably than that nonsense. As someone posted before, the squadron will go on when you are not there, so take your leave. But whatever you do, multiply your action by the number of folks in your squadron...hopefully that will help you make a prudent decision. If your action multiplied by everyone in the unit would close the doors - you should probably rethink your action.

Don't know who you are, but fuck you.

[Danny Noonin]

Maybe I'll take Friday off.

Better wait until next Friday. That way you can take a half day thurs as well and really piss off sof.

[C17Driver]

They did not learn everything there is to know in tech school, just as you did not learn everything you needed to know in pilot training - they have to continue to train.

So, work on Saturday, that's why my ops squadrons did to accomplish our required training.

It sounds like you have never had a commander tell you to take leave on weekends and federal holidays (even when you weren't going anywhere) so that "his" squadron didn't have anyone reported as having use or lose.

[nsplayr]

Think of it as time in the vault for you.

Anyone get dedicated time off from their additional duties to "study in the vault?" No on in my community does, that's for damn sure. The queep monster consumes as much time as you let him and it's on individuals and instructors and FLT/CCs to ensure everyone gets and stay smart. It's a constant battle, and the thing that often loses in that battle is time off. Can we close our doors from group taskers, security inspections, Group/CC PT etc. so we can study? Even on "training days" the BS continues. So no, I won't think of their closed-door training opportunities as my time in the vault because I put in effort to fit in that time on top of 6-9 hours of normal day-to-day BS.

But whatever you do, multiply your action by the number of folks in your squadron...hopefully that will help you make a prudent decision. If your action multiplied by everyone in the unit would close the doors - you should probably rethink your action.

So wait, if I take my leave like a week or two at a time, and I multiply that out by everyone in the squadron...the squadron would completely shut down and we'd fail at our mission. Seems like if everyone took a day off per week, so long as it wasn't the same day, that would actually be a better leave policy by your f-ed up logic.