Should Drinking Age for Military Personnel Be Lowered to 18?

[OverTQ]

The next night some dumbass drunk airman threw up in the hallway of the dorms and the maids wern't very happy when they had to clean it up so they reported it to the cops.

Maids??????

[abmwaldo]

AK Military Drinking Bill

"worry it would encourage unhealthy behavior in a military that wants to reduce smoking and curb drinking." Warrior monks for all my friends!

[Boxhead]

AK Military Drinking Bill

"worry it would encourage unhealthy behavior in a military that wants to reduce smoking and curb drinking." Warrior monks for all my friends!

should read "...in a military whose leaders want to reduce smoking and curb drinking, and who are also too focused on CYA and making everyone wear diapers when one idiot craps..."

[MKopack]

AK Military Drinking Bill

"Alcohol is involved in a third of misconduct incidents on Alaska's military installations, three generals said in a letter to Rep. Dan Saddler, co-chairman of the House Special Committee on Military & Veterans' Affairs."

A third of misconduct? By my math that means all that military sobriety is screwing things up. But what do I know, I've been drinkin'...

[pawnman]

"Alcohol is involved in a third of misconduct incidents on Alaska's military installations, three generals said in a letter to Rep. Dan Saddler, co-chairman of the House Special Committee on Military & Veterans' Affairs."

A third of misconduct? By my math that means all that military sobriety is screwing things up. But what do I know, I've been drinkin'...

Checks...that means 2/3 of the misconduct is caused by sober people. Seems like you should be working on the bigger portion of misconduct, the "sober" ones.

[Vertigo]

ny day they are gunna decide to shut off the booze for everyone. Even us professional drinkers. Never mind the fact that every one of the incidents were young airman. Little bastards can't hold their booze. If you can't drink like a man you shouldn't be able to drink at all.

You have to be an amateur before you can be a pro. You don't automatically build up a tolerance with age.

[StainedClass]

I am currently deployed at base X. There is drinking available here. The night before I got here some dumbass drunk airman noticed a car with the keys in it and took it for a joyride around base ending up in the middle of a roundabout under a static display. The next night some dumbass drunk airman threw up in the hallway of the dorms and the maids wern't very happy when they had to clean it up so they reported it to the cops. The next night I was walking out of the chow hall and some dumbass drunk airman was leaning over the railing of the club puking his guts out in full view of everyone going into or out of the chow hall 20 feet away. Last night there were a group of dumbass drunk airman outside the dorms at 3am screaming at the top of their lungs some unintelligible babble for about 20 minutes and when they were asked to STFU they tried to start a fight with the poor bastard trying to get some sleep. Tonight there were about 5-6 dumbass drunk airman in the lobby of the dorms yelling and carrying on. They almost got into a fight in the lobby with some other drunk idiot when the N word came out.

Everyone of these incidents highlighted the fact that "Drinking is bad and causing problems". Any day they are gunna decide to shut off the booze for everyone. Even us professional drinkers. Never mind the fact that every one of the incidents were young airman. Little bastards can't hold their booze. If you can't drink like a man you shouldn't be able to drink at all.

As to 18 year olds drinking....... Hell no.

I used to be an airman and now I'm a field-grader with 25 years nearing retirement. I can say without hesitation that none of the above would have happened in the mid-80's when I was an airman, when BTW the drinking age on base and off base (in some states) was 18. The reason why? Leadership and accountability from the junior NCO corps, specifically E-5s. Let's pretend for a minute it's 1985...

That airman puking in the hallway? I'm certain that night you describe there was an E-5 or even a senior E-4 in the area. Did he/she just leave that airman behind puking up his guts in the hallway? I'm sure of it. That E-5 should have grabbed two of that airman's boozehound buddies, had them take the puker to a bathroom stall to purge what was left of his intestines, then have them mop up the mess and put their buddy to bed. The puker gets his ass chewed by said NCO the next morning and the two unfortunate puke moppers are now owed a big time favor the next time the boys decide to tie one on. No LOCs, no LORs, no A15s, no officers or first shirts involved and no $7/hr maid having to clean up some asshat's puke. The junior NCOs take care of their own airman with the authority granted them by the UCMJ. Can't handle the responsibility of telling a drunk 19 year-old to shut up and go to bed? Kill yourself.

Same deal for the second floor rail puker, the loud lobby fighters and certainly the jackass who uttered the 'N' word. Be a ######ing NCO and take care of business.

I'm curious, GasMan, surely you are an NCO or even an officer? Why didn't YOU take care of it? Not my job? I'm not their supervisor? Bullshit. As an NCO, you're every airman's supervisor.

But see, today's junior NCO force wants to be their airman's buddy, not their superior. They cower behind a closed dorm room door while airman puke, break shit, fight and disturb folks in crew rest and then complain the next day about "today's airmen." I truly believe drinking and having fun are part of the process of airmen maturing and that's where the junior NCO force comes in; to allow them to have fun but to step in when it gets out of line and protect your airmen from themselves.

The worst ass chewing I ever saw given was from a E-8 I've know for 22 years. We were loading the jet at big AMC base in Germany when there was a problem with the load. The two APS airmen out at the jet ran our SRA loadmaster some lip about some obviously jacked up cargo while my SMSgt buddy watched (he was giving the SRA a checkride). The SMSgt stepped in and asked for the duty officer. An APS E-5 shows up (apparently he was the DO) and asks what the problem was. As the E-8 loadmaster explains that the load was jacked up and the two APS airmen refused to fix it, the exasperated E-5 looks at the E-8 and says, "I have no control over these guys." No shit. Commence mentoring session.

Airmen (and junior officers for that matter) reflect their supervision. Attitude reflects leadership. IOW, shitty NCOs, shitty airmen. The next time a SSgt complains about "today's airmen", remind him whose airmen they really are.

Edited to reflect that a SMSgt is an E-8, not an E-7. I'm retarded.

Edited April 28, 2011 by StainedClass

[SocialD]

But see, today's junior NCO force wants to be their airman's buddy, not their superior. They cower behind a closed dorm room door while airman puke, break shit, fight and disturb folks in crew rest and then complain the next day about "today's airmen." I truly believe drinking and having fun are part of the process of airmen maturing and that's where the junior NCO force comes in; to allow them to have fun but to step in when it gets out of line and protect your airmen from themselves.

Then said Airman cries (no shit, actually cries), goes to the shirt and complains that so and so, was mean to them. First shirt goes to his commander, who talks to your commander, your commander forces you to apologize to the airman. Not shit, a Major forced to apologize to a SrA, for giving the airman a counseling session (in private). It started out as a "talking to," to the airman about not doing their job, when the airman got respectful, it was time to talk in private! Our Marine exchange officer about shit his pants when he saw this!

Saw it happen...

Edited April 27, 2011 by SocialD

[zrooster99]

Then said Airman cries (no shit, actually cries), goes to the shirt and complains that so and so, was mean to them. First shirt goes to his commander, who talks to your commander, your commander forces you to apologize to the airman. Not shit, a Major forced to apologize to a SrA, for giving the airman a counseling session (in private). It started out as a "talking to," to the airman about not doing their job, when the airman got respectful, it was time to talk in private! Our Marine exchange officer about shit his pants when he saw this!

Saw it happen...

Fuck... That's the other 1/2 of the problem.

[pawnman]

Then said Airman cries (no shit, actually cries), goes to the shirt and complains that so and so, was mean to them. First shirt goes to his commander, who talks to your commander, your commander forces you to apologize to the airman. Not shit, a Major forced to apologize to a SrA, for giving the airman a counseling session (in private). It started out as a "talking to," to the airman about not doing their job, when the airman got respectful, it was time to talk in private! Our Marine exchange officer about shit his pants when he saw this!

Saw it happen...

If the Airman no kidding cries to his first shirt, then it's probably time to end the "We'll take care of this privately" and start the paperwork trail. Step one is telling the shirt why you yelled at the kid in the first place.

[guineapigfury]

Isn't the solution to allow 18-20 year olds to drink only at the junior enlisted/NCO club? This way you avoid the high school senior buying booze for his off base buddies and you have built in supervision. Oh, and my bad on reviving an ancient thread.

[Danger41]

Isn't the solution to allow 18-20 year olds to drink only at the junior enlisted/NCO club? This way you avoid the high school senior buying booze for his off base buddies and you have built in supervision. Oh, and my bad on reviving an ancient thread.

Do those even exist anymore?

[theSituation]

I bet they'd get a lot more business if they did that.

[schokie]

I've only seen them at overseas bases where the 21 y/o drinking laws don't apply anyway. Oddly enough, they all seem to be packed out on Friday/Saturday night anyway.