$100K+ Jobs

[Pancake]

What non-flying jobs are available with a starting salary over $100K?

Considering VSP separations are on the horizon, I'm curious what VSP-approved folks are planning to do after the Air Force, especially since the airline hiring boom hasn't quite started?

Are ex-officers really in demand in the corporate world as this Fortune Magazine article suggests? Is the Harvard/Wharton MBA a requisite? How valuable are other in-residence MBAs (Michigan, North Carolina, Arizona)?

Anyone out there with 6-figure salary corporate success?

Edited April 17, 2011 by Pancake

[nunya]

I'll be curious to read the replies, but I'll submit that $100K is no longer impressive. Sure, it puts you in the top 10% of earners in Columbus or Abilene, but if you're in an urban market, six figures is no longer the threshold of high pay.

[Pancake]

I'll be curious to read the replies, but I'll submit that $100K is no longer impressive. Sure, it puts you in the top 10% of earners in Columbus or Abilene, but if you're in an urban market, six figures is no longer the threshold of high pay.

Agreed. However, is more than $100-120K starting salary realistic? Do 50-hour/week jobs exist that pay more than $200K? I suppose that higher paying jobs require 60+ hours/week.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Pancake

[Vetter]

The economy is bad. There are no jobs. Now move along.

[PirateAF]

Found this one while surfing jobs at US.gov - if you still have your clearance, give it a look. Pay looks great, with definite fringe benefits.

[WheelzUp]

Found this one while surfing jobs at US.gov - if you still have your clearance, give it a look. Pay looks great, with definite fringe benefits.

Damn it! Totally fell for that. Well played sir.

[Learjetter]

Make your own $100K job as an entrepreneur.

[OL Patch]

Old guy advice forthcoming--take it or leave it:

Where do you want to live? Why? What kind of life do you want to have? Why? What makes you happy? I retired so I could have the opportunity to take my now 14yr old son to school everyday. Guess what....it's a 3 minute drive from my house....I wouldn't trade those 3 minutes times each day of a full school year times 7 years for any "6" figure salary....next year he will start driving himself and we'll still have each and everyone of those 3 minutes .....

And the workshop out back where I make sawdust every chance I get is my choice on the above questions. Gentlemen: It's not about the money, it never was or should it be!

Just a thought from a closet philosophizer...OL Patch.

[AZwildcat]

Make sure to put "Online Masters Degree from TUI" on your resume, you'll be guaranteed at least 200k, probably upper management with at least 3 different people right underneath you

[pitts2112]

Too many undefined variables to give you a very good answer. Where are you looking to be? What's your background? What kind of work do you want to do, what kinds of positions in what industries? If you don't have laser-guided answers to these questions, then you've got a hell of a lot of work still to do.

In short, people are finding jobs, but it's a tough game and will take 6-9 months, on average, to find your first civilian job. Start looking well before you separate. Get a copy of "What Color is Your Parachute" and follow it to the letter. Ignore the job ads, Monster, headhunters, etc. Success rates in those lines are less than 10% and pursuing them in anything other than a cursory way will frustrate and anger you. I remember there was one "military headhunter" around when I was getting out who promised to get me a job, but I had to agree to use them exclusively, including not making any effort on my own part to find a job. I told them to take a hike.

When people talk about a "jobless recovery", they're not kidding. There are jobs out there but they are hard to find, employers are being incredibly choosey, and there is lots of competition for every position open.

As for MBAs, that's a very tricky subject. They're as common as high school diplomas out there now. Unless you've got one from Harvard or Kellogg, don't expect it to be a discriminator of any real value. Everybody and their brother has one, so it's not special any more. In some jobs, it's a requirement, in most, it's not that important, especially if you bring some good real-world experience to the table.

Learn how to write your resume so a civilian who's never heard of the USAF can read it. Take out all the acronyms and job titles that don't make any sense on the outside world. 99% of the world has no idea what we vets are talking about so don't bother trying to educate them. Learn how to speak civilian.

$100K doesn't buy you much on the outside where you don't get BHA, free medical and dental care, subsidized commissary, etc, etc, etc. Your expenses are going to shift. Things you don't pay for now may become significant outgoings for you and your family. Get advice on salary expectations (look at Glassdoor.com for this) as well as remuneration packages. Those can be very complex and you need to know all of this when you get to package negotiations.

I say all of this not to scare anyone or make them change their mind about getting out, but to give you some realistic expectations of what you'll need to do to succeed. There's lots more to this and I'm happy to discuss it with anyone. For me, getting out when I did was the right decision, and I value the time I spent in the USAF. It gave me the grounding, responsibility, and skills that have been the basis of some real success on the outside. But it is hard work and not to be taken lightly.

I hope that helps in some way. Anyone can feel free to PM me on any of the above.

Cheers!

[Pancake]

Make sure to put "Online Masters Degree from TUI" on your resume, you'll be guaranteed at least 200k, probably upper management with at least 3 different people right underneath you

Coincidentally, I have an in-residence MBA from Eller.

[Jaded]

I spoke with several headhunters when the VSP opportunity presented itself. 70k was an often quoted number for a young CGO. More with degrees, specific experience, or apathy about location.

[Dave Koza]

Coincidentally, I have an in-residence MBA from Eller.

While AZWildcat probably knows that Eller is Arizona's business school, I wouldn't count on immediate name recognition in your interview with Goldman Sachs. The only reason I know about Eller is because of their ads on bus benches throughout Phoenix. The sad part is that a grad degree at Arizona is about as good as it gets for an Air Force pilot these days.

Edited April 18, 2011 by jvandersloot

[Pancake]

While AZWildcat probably knows that Eller is Arizona's business school, I wouldn't count on immediate name recognition in your interview with Goldman Sachs.

If I was, I wouldn't have posed the original question. Just pointing out the coincidence (or irony).

[JS]

You raise some good questions, and there are some good answers in this thread. My perspective, coming from working 5 years in the civilian sector until joining the Reserves and then working part-time as a civilian is as follows. As others have mentioned, it depends, of course. Some employers will not care about an online degree and won't give a shit about military experience. Others will give you instant credibility as a military vet and appreciate that you have a graduate degree in anything. A lot of it will depend on how you do in an interview, if you can even get one. One recurring theme that I read about and have discussed with business-type guys in my home town is that employers value communication skills - written and verbal - as well as a self-starter mentality. I read that 80% of all workers in the US have to be "managed" and told what to do as opposed to being given a fire-and-forget task like we are usually given in the military. I would imagine an employer would value those skills if you could convey them in an interview.

Back to getting an interview. As Pitts mentioned above, the job boards are a total waste of time - the majority of jobs are not advertised. Networking is by far the most important skill you could possibly bring to your search. It's not what you know, but who you know, And as much as I value knowledge and education, if I absolutely had to give up one of the two, I would give up "what you know." Keep in touch with that crusty college classmate of your father-in-laws, or that guy from Church who works for ATT downtown. Remember those letters you keep getting from your alma mater about alumni meetings in your city or flyers about guest speakers coming to talk to the local MBA alums - I would consider attending those meetings. There should also be some other general business networking groups in the town that you decide you would like to work in (see OL Patch's post above - he is dead on about deciding where you want to live, how much quality of life you want to sacrifice or cost of living you want to endure for a certain job or lifestyle). Do your research in your town and get plugged in through church, the local business alliance, chamber of commerce, BNI, or whatever.

But in the end, be aware that the $100K job is not going to come knocking in your doorstep simply because you are a military vet. You might have to start smaller, with a more "normal" salary for someone entering the industry. Don't be like some and keep getting more education or keep passing entry level jobs because you think you are worth more - you might not be. Finally, as others have sort of mentioned, realize that the $80K you currently make in salary and tax-free housing in the military is probably already equivalent to a straight $100K salary in the civilian sector. That's not even including tax-free deployments or TDY money. Plus you could be on the hook for quite a healthcare bill in the private sector.

Good luck.

[Guest]

$100k is good money and within reach. It might be a stretch based on your experience and the market you are going to live in. I am currently hiring seven people into $100k/yr jobs I know any USAF officer could handle just fine. The problem is, I know that but most people out here do not. You have to sell yourself.

Anything $200k or more is real work. Ol Patch is absolutely correct. I would add a couple points about "big money" jobs.

1. Network.

The most valuable thing you can do. Nothing comes close.

2. You will probably have to travel. A lot.

In the past five weeks I have been to Houston, Singapore, Chicago and am currently waiting to board a flt to Geneva. I have worked my way back into my pre-retirement ops tempo and I didn't even see it coming.

3. Be careful what you wish for.

The hidden benefit to your current pay are the tax break that have been previuosly mentioned. I never cared about money in the USAF but now I have elevated my standard of living a bit and it would not be easy to go backward. You will no longer qualify for tax breaks (Turbo Tax sad face on nearly every deduction opportunity) , Roth IRA or financial aid for your kids tuition (I have #3 starting in the fall). Once you enter the land of the AMT you are screwed in many ways. It was better when I made less.

4. Learn to save aggressively.

If you already save, save double or more. I suggest you save at least 20% of your new income. Do it.

5. Start your own business.

No one gets rich working for the man in the $100-300k range. Too many benefits to name if you own your own business. Lots of hard work and long hours but everything you do is for your own company, not someone elses.

6. Stay optimistic and persistent.

Network like a madman, don't talk about how much you want to make, talk about how excited you are to be entering the economy you served to defend, show everyone your resume`(s) (you should have more than one), listen carefully and take feedback (civilians care about different things and you need to align without compromising if you want a job), try to schedule as many informational interviews as possible with people as senior as possible (the best way to network is to get a handoff from someone you did an informational interview with), talk to folks senior to you who have country club memberships about the fact that you are looking for work. Most importantly, stay positive. People love self-starters who are eager and have a positive attitude. People will help you if they like you.

7. Get comfortable with numbers if you aren't already.

Business is just one big math problem.

8. Education is nice but not the most important factor

I interview potential candidates at the top 15 business schools on a regular basis as part of my current job. Knowing how to do discounted cash flows is nice but it is just math. Knowing how to get things done and understanding what it takes to make something run end to end AND be able to do some math is much more valuable. The students with a military background outshine the other kids by several orders of magnitude. It is not because the veterans are smarter. It is because they understand process, accept accountability for their actions without needing to be told and know how to lead and get things done.

I am happy to assist anyone who wants a resume review or advice on the jump to the dark side.

[pitts2112]

What Rainman and JS said. Concur with both on virtually all points.

Getting a job IS about NETWORKING!!!! And there is a way to do it. That was what my reference to Parachute was all about. That book got me two jobs in different industry sectors and is going to get me my next one. Talk to everyone you know once you get your pitch together - and I mean the whole thing, not just the "elevator speech".

While there's much more to it than this, I'll put a few points here to cogitate on:

1. Put yourself in a box. Everyone else will do it to you. Help them by telling them the box you're in so they don't have to figure it out. If they can't figure out which box to put you in, they'll drop you because it's too much hard work to understand what you are. So, decide what you are and in what sector. It will feel like you're closing out opportunities but, in reality, you'll be helping potential employers figure out how to help you and how you can help them. Being a "generalist" and having made this mistake, I can't emphasise it enough.

2. Once you've decided the job you do and the sector you want to do it in, make a list of target companies you want to learn more about. The list should be at least 40-50. These aren't companies you necessarily want to work for, because you won't know very much about them; they are companies you want to explore. This also guides your networking and helps people understand you (see point 1 above).

3. Don't ask people for jobs. That becomes a yes/no question, with most answers being "no". You want a conversation with people. You are seeking career advice, nothing more. That changes the tone of the conversation completely! Ask about their industry, their company, and their advice on how your skills and career goals would be applicable to that industry. If they need you, that will come out in the conversation. In each conversation, ask them to help you explore other companies or get more advice with introductions to other people they know. Rattle off your target list - it'll help jog their memories and you'll get far more new connections that way.

4. Follow up on every connection you're given. You'd be amazed at how many people fail to do this.

5. Do you play golf? If so, get out on the links every weekend. Join foursomes with the guys in their 40s and 50s. They're still in work and the right ages to be in/know people in senior positions. Dont' play with retired guys so much because most of them have been out long enough to have lost useful connections. I don't do this because I don't play golf, but I believe it's got to be a good opportunity.

OK, I've just realised this has gone from answering the OP's original question to becoming a primer on how to find a job. Might be slightly off-topic. Back to the original question and, the short answer is: Get a copy of Parachute and think through it long and hard before you decide to give up a steady paycheck and free healthcare to dive out into this shit economy which, despite what the govt will tell you, is still pretty shit.

[AZwildcat]

Coincidentally, I have an in-residence MBA from Eller.

Nice, my undergrad is from Eller. I'd like to go back and get an MBA but I think the online joke of a masters is going to have to suffice for now. It's either that or start my own sea plane business in the Caribbean.

[Learjetter]

... or start my own sea plane business in the Caribbean.

Call me if you need a partner...with his own plane.

[HuggyU2]

What non-flying jobs are available with a starting salary over $100K?

I'm curious what VSP-approved folks are planning to do after the Air Force, especially since the airline hiring boom hasn't quite started?

Just to clarify: don't group "100K/year starting salary jobs" and "airline pilot" in the same thought process.

... or start my own sea plane business in the Caribbean.

A friend of mine tried that. It didn't work out.

Edited April 19, 2011 by Huggyu2

[Learjetter]

Just to clarify: don't group "100K/year starting salary jobs" and "airline pilot" in the same thought process.

A friend of mine tried that. It didn't work out.

Way true on the first statement. But, I bet it was worth every minute and every penny on the second, even if it didn't work out.

[Breckey]

Jack Broughton?

[WeMeantWell]

What non-flying jobs are available with a starting salary over $100K?

Doesn't look that hard (sts) to get into this career field...

[JS]

1. Put yourself in a box. Everyone else will do it to you. Help them by telling them the box you're in so they don't have to figure it out. If they can't figure out which box to put you in, they'll drop you because it's too much hard work to understand what you are.

Excellent point! I kind of noticed this happening to me, but never really put 2 and 2 together until reading this. A friend of mine who flies corporate automatically assumed I would want to fly for a living, and immediately started making phone calls and setting up lunches with guys around the airport (I am leaving my options open, but I never actually said or implied that I would want to fly corporate, or fly in general, when I grow up). Next thing I knew, I was at lunch or drinking coffee with guys at the airport because they all assumed that I was going to fly for a living since I was currently flying for the Air Force. Another friend of the family was trying to set me up with some contacts that he had at Southwest, again automatically assuming that I wanted to be an airline pilot.

Because I have a technical background, my other friends and contacts around town automatically assume that I want to do that for a living. I have had several people try to set me up with opportunities in engineering or technology jobs around town - all without my ever saying "this is what box I am in - I want to work in a technology field."

Finally, a friend of mine tried out the financial planning thing with a "military friendly" financial planning company whose name shall not be mentioned here. I toyed with the idea of giving that a try since I had a business background too (MBA). After mentioning it in passing, I found myself at lunch with a friend of my wifes and a different coffee meeting with two other family friends trying to point me in the right direction about getting into the financial world. All this was without my saying that I was actually going to pursue said career field or was really even seriously interested.

So, again, first define what you want to do for a living when you grow up, or what "box" you fit into. This will make life easier, so you won't be frustrated if your plans are to use your accounting degree to work with one of the Big 5, but have family friends bombarding you with ideas and contacts in the aviation industry, for example. The worst thing you can think/say is "I don't know what I want to do - I will do 'anything' - but I am looking for a $100K job in 'something' in the private sector based on my experience as an Air Force officer."

[Login Name]

I took VSP last year and make over $100 now, it's a very realistic possiblity for you too.

Agreed. However, is more than $100-120K starting salary realistic? Do 50-hour/week jobs exist that pay more than $200K? I suppose that higher paying jobs require 60+ hours/week.

It depends on your job. I work no more than 40 hours a week. I can't. I'm a contractor and I'm not going to get paid overtime to work more than my standard shift. My company doesn't expect me to put in any more than 8 hours of work per day. We can show anytime between 6am-9am (no joke). Life is good.

I spoke with several headhunters when the VSP opportunity presented itself. 70k was an often quoted number for a young CGO. More with degrees, specific experience, or apathy about location.

Fact. I was also offered a job by one of the big consulting firms in DC. They offered me $20K less than what I'm making now...simply b/c they can. They have a name that people want and they are willing to underpay you so that you can have their name on your resume. A very close friend is very senior at the company and was surprised they offered me even as much as they did....BL, you're looking at anywhere between $75-110K, if you're in the DC area.

Tips I learned last year during the job hunt...

1. Take the highest paying job, regardless of what it is. Statistics show you will probably change job within the first 5 years of separating so you may as well have a good base salary to negotiate your next job

2. Network. Do not bother with applying for jobs through the online HR program. You will not get hired that way. You get hired by knowing somebody in the company and they vouch for you.

3. Take as many interviews as you can get. The big consulting firms, love CGOs and they have events where you spend all day in a banquet room interviewing with a dozen different PMs in the company. It's exhausting but worth it.

4. When you tell a (contracting) company that your looking to start work on X date, they won't even acknowledge you until 45-60 days prior. Anything beyond that is too far on their scope of what work they have and where they can hire you.

5. Smaller companies tend to pay more than bigger ones. The key is to find a small company owned by a big company. You get the pay of the small company but the security of the big company.