M. Obama's plane to aborts landing - controllers fired

[Guest Crew Report]

I'm surprised 18AF hasn't Q3'd them

If he had been aboard, they would've got DFC's.

[BQZip01]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Ramp_disaster

REALLY in poor taste

[FUSEPLUG]

I'm looking forward to the Lifetime movie!

[Breckey]

Tonight on Lifetime: "When men in planes attack! One woman fights back!"

[Guest]

REALLY in poor taste

Agreed. But to be clear this is what started it.

So you aint learned to slow down behind one of those? Are you a 16 driver?

[Clayton Bigsby]

Those controllers @ ADW weren't the ones fired - that was the one @ Tyson-McGhee (the willful sleeper) and the supervisor @ Miami Center who used the Southwest 737 to check on a NORDO GA plane (and violated separation requirements because both aircraft were IFR and you can't apply visual separation to aircraft you can't talk to).

It's funny how the press latches on to the tower as the root of all these issues - the Andrews tower didn't do anything wrong, what I've heard is that the approach controller (at a separate facility) fucked up big time and shipped the C40 at 3.08 miles behind the heavy (5 miles is needed for in-trail wake turbulence separation, unless you get visual separation, which they apparently weren't using), so tower got handed a shitty situation and had the C-40 do S-turns to increase distance and allow the 'massive' C-17 to clear the runway. That wasn't enough so the C-40 got sent around. Which is no big deal, go-arounds happen all the time and don't get reported and they're certainly not operational errors (deals) unless the other guy isn't past the hold short lines before the inbound crosses the threshold.

Next you question the sequencing, any presidential aircraft even with foxtrot suffix has the highest operational priority over others so sending the first lady around sounds ridiculous in the first place, but I wonder if the C-17 was an Air Evac, and Air Evacs/Lifeguards also are top priority over other traffic.

[Guest]

Tonight on Lifetime: "When men in planes attack! One woman fights back!"

I think it should be an episode of this.

[MT near]

How does this even get to the press in the first place?

[Clayton Bigsby]

I wonder if the approach controller mistakenly assumed the VIP aircraft was a C-32 or VC-25, which are heavies for wake turbulence application and have different in-trail separation requirements than regular larges.

Have not read the NOTAMs but was the parallel runway unavailable for some reason, or were there taxiway closures forcing back-taxi?

EDIT - callsign was, and should be Exec 1 Foxtrot. I thought Exec 1 only applied to commercial civilian transpo.

Edited April 22, 2011 by Clayton Bigsby

[ACCBoomer]

I wonder if the C-17 crew will get a DFC.

Yep, and the gear was down.

[Clayton Bigsby]

How does this even get to the press in the first place?

Cuz controllers be fucking up! Big Ray won't let us sleep! ZOMG PLANES HAD TO LAND UNCONTROLLED OH THE HUMANITY!!!

Edited April 22, 2011 by Clayton Bigsby

[itsokimapilot]

I wonder if the approach controller mistakenly assumed the VIP aircraft was a C-32 or VC-25, which are heavies for wake turbulence application and have different in-trail separation requirements than regular larges. Also I wonder if the C-40 was using "Air Force One Foxtrot" or "Executive One Foxtrot" as its callsign, it should be AF1F but I thought I'd heard the Executive callsign somewhere (which is only supposed to be used on commercial aircraft).

Have not read the NOTAMs but was the parallel runway unavailable for some reason, or were there taxiway closures forcing back-taxi?

Yeah, they ripped 1L/19R out and are in the middle of replacing it. Single runway ops at ADW. The middle taxiway is gone too, so you have to exit at the end.

[LockheedFix]

If he had been aboard, they would've got DFC's.

Nice.

[AZwildcat]

Just waiting for the AF times article that tells us "What Really Happened! C-17 crew relives harrowing near miss with first lady in their own words..."

[WeMeantWell]

So, why is it that you give any credibility to those same sources when they report on topics that you are unfamiliar with?"

Rebuttal story: (that the public will never read)

https://nycaviation.c...-a-pilots-take/

"Thankfully, Mrs. Obama was involved in a go-around and not a headline grabbing incident. Oh, wait."

And to stoke the fire:

https://www.agi.it/english-version/world/elenco-notizie/201104200808-cro-ren1005-first_lady_s_plane_almosts_crashes_jill_biden_on_board

" The barely averted collision between two planes at Joint Base Andrews in Maryland could have caused a national disaster."

I think when the press escalates rumors they are worse than a bunch of guys waiting for news about VSP

(edited for the second link)

Edited April 23, 2011 by Biaspoint

[B*D*A]

REALLY in poor taste

I posted it to add context to arg's F-16 comment.

Rebuttal story: (that the public will never read)

https://nycaviation.c...-a-pilots-take/

~$3K for a go-around in a 747...dang brah.

[MCO]

I watched a 747 do a go around for a C-5 taking its time on the runway from my office window a few weeks ago.... I'm surprised the world didn't end.

[MT near]

Who notified the press is my question? How would they even find this out?

Edited April 27, 2011 by MT near

[StoleIt]

Who notified the press is my question? How would they even find this out?

I am willing to bet they pay losers to listen for shit like this.

Same reason the press sends camera's and stuff to boring events...in "case" something happens. Think about if there news was there during the Tuscon shooting of Rep. Giffords. They don't care about the fundraiser...

Same reason there are always news camera's there when POTUS is going or arriving on AF1. What if he trips? That would make the news. Better yet...what if something REAL happens? They are just waiting for it...

Edited April 27, 2011 by stoleit2x

[M2]

A FRED from Kelly was well within the "danger zone" of 3nm of my Toyota this afternoon, where in the fuck was the press on that?!?

[Clayton Bigsby]

LiveATC.net is likely how they found out; sending around Executive One Foxtrot is a big deal (although I wonder if there'd been the same reaction/news if it'd been a vehicle incursion onto the runway or some other cautionary go-around). LiveATC can be a nice tool for practice, reviewing phraseology, etc but it's also a constantly running archive of stuff you say on the radio - it's all being archived, and people get busted for doing stupid shit on the radio by that (Controller kid @ JFK comes to mind).

Also, it's the media...they're in search of a story, and the sleepy/screwed up controller is such an easy one to pick at these days (it really doesn't help when people keep fucking up). In a month it'll be something else, remember when it was "drunk" airline pilots?

I think it could be FAA management grandstanding to make it look like they're doing something to these rogue controllers? There's a big gulf between FAA labor and management, the current labor contract with bargaining units expires in 2012 and I'm sure there are those who would like ammunition to have the next one be more restrictive.

Word on the street is the Miami Center sleeper was dimed out by a fellow controller over a personal beef. I hope that's not the case.

[PapaJu]

LiveATC.net is likely how they found out; sending around Executive One Foxtrot is a big deal (although I wonder if there'd been the same reaction/news if it'd been a vehicle incursion onto the runway or some other cautionary go-around). LiveATC can be a nice tool for practice, reviewing phraseology, etc but it's also a constantly running archive of stuff you say on the radio - it's all being archived, and people get busted for doing stupid shit on the radio by that (Controller kid @ JFK comes to mind).

They do have the police/radio/air scanners at the station so they can immediately hear about incidents.