A Little tanker love from BMW...

[Bergman]

Or descend...down where the tanker boogey man lives. Except in BMW commercials.

Says the guy who flew a jet with titanium armor, bulletproof glass, and the ability to shoot back. What are us tanker toads going to do...drop a frozen pizza on them??

Please don't lump all tanker guys into the same pile. There are some of us out there who have A/Rd well below 5000' AGL, at night, without any special equipment (or totally awesome "Black World" patches that you see at the 'Deid ) in order to maximize the A-10s time on task/target...because the guys on the ground needed it.

"Oh, nothing Marge. Just a little incident involving THE BOOGEYMAN! None of this would have happened if you had been here to keep me from acting stupid!"

Edited May 5, 2011 by Bergman

[Guest]

Please don't lump all tanker guys into the same pile.

You know I don't.

There are some of us out there who have A/Rd well below 5000' AGL, at night, without any special equipment in order to maximize the A-10s time on task/target...because the guys on the ground needed it.

[nsplayr]

I did see a KC-10 refueling a B-1 below me in a country with notoriously high terrain. Keep in mind we don't get up real high with one engine...thought that was pretty forward-leaning of them.

[Learjetter]

I did see a KC-10 refueling a B-1 below me in a country with notoriously high terrain. Keep in mind we don't get up real high with one engine...thought that was pretty forward-leaning of them.

If that was jan 02, on a random sw heading about 50 nm or so W of Gardez, and the bone was tapping burner every 7-10 secs...we were in the block 13000-15000 MSL. ISYN.

[ThreeHoler]

I've tanked low many times on an as needed basis. The really memorable one was the Herc at 3,000 AGL in the valley where the peaks were another 3,000+ above us.

I've also tanked Hawgs without a toboggan...it just takes a little knowledge of what is really happening when you choose to roll 0*/Ext or 7*/Ext. It is quite hilarious though when the crew forgets they selected 7* and the FO can't get the flaps out past 7*/Ext for the approach.

I've tanked F-18s lower than I've ever tanked Hawgs...because tanking them sub-5,000 AGL was some guy's brilliant idea of how to employ their first non-Herc tanker.

Oh, and intercepting Bears in a tanker is fun too.

[Prosuper]

Had to replace a few booms after they were used as a tow strap to get a sick fighter home, I remember the voice of a very concerned A-6 guy we dragged into Lajes when his left wing tank had a structural failure and pouring out gas in the middle of the Atlantic. Had a bud drag a F-4 into Keflavik with a dead engine in a February, bailing in the North Atlantic in February is suicide even with a poopy suit on.

[Masshole]

So they will send a KC-135 out to refill coffee, but the best financing they can offer for three years is a 3.9% APR?

[Hammer]

Most tanker crews downrange want to start at the top of the track so they have room to toboggan....the irony being that starting up there is exactly what requires us to toboggan. In between receivers, a lot of tankers will climb back up to altitude so they can toboggan again, not realizing that there's no need to toboggan anymore now that we're at the bottom of the track.

Some of you might be thinking "Huh? the track is only 3 or 4,000' from top to bottom...it can't make that much difference." It does. The Hog (and its engines) were designed to fly low. Literally each thousand foot increment makes AR exponentially more difficult, especially w/ a full loadout of ordnance. I understand there are airspace limitations and you have other receivers as well as yourself to think about. That said, I promise you that if both you and/or the Hog flight lead are proactive about setting up the AR as low as possible/feasible, it will be a lot easier for everyone and you won't find yourself playing so many games with the toboggan or flaps.

That is non-standard and is a foul. Most tanker crews are going to be at the fragged altitude with the fragged gas at the fragged time, unless the plan gets dicked up by control. We are only supposed toboggan at the receivers request and it can be completed from the middle of the block to the bottom of the block 90% of the time. FYSA if we are fat on gas we need to drop flaps to go that slow especially if we are low.

[ThreeHoler]

Color me stupid...but I've never heard of anyone needing flaps to tank at lower altitudes...

As for the "non-standard/foul"...not really. I've tanked guys out the bottom of the anchor...just like I've exceeded the lateral boundaries. It is about customer service...put down your coffee cup and get on the radio to coordinate a lower block or the spill-out so you can point guys where they need to go. There's no need to be reckless, but there's also no need to be a douche to the receiver because you feel compelled to fly exactly the frag.

I'll tell you what's fun though: climbs and descents with receivers on the hoses.

[Hammer]

I'm not talking about accommodating the receiver...I'm talking about preempting a toboggan by climbing to the top of the block without being asked. You've never needed flaps for an A-10 or Herk at 249K gross weight?

[B.M.]

249K gross weight?

KC-10s weigh a little more than that when they're weighed at depot. Empty. With no crew. No gas. And no galley panels filled to the brim with Kashi cereal

[ThreeHoler]

I won't lie...it has been a few years, but the number 540k comes to mind as the max weight at which I could refuel an A-10...

I've refueled lots of things at lots of weights at lots of altitudes...

But you still have me confused with the whole bit where putting flaps out or not at a given IAS is dependent on altitude...especially a lower altitude requiring flaps...

Edited May 7, 2011 by ThreeHoler

[Hammer]

We can't hit the 10 above 250K. And I seem to have myself confused about the flap/altitude thing. I am going to blame Jack on that one.

[Bergman]

Color me stupid...but I've never heard of anyone needing flaps to tank at lower altitudes...

FWIW, we routinely use flaps in the -135 with hogs and -130s.

As for the "non-standard/foul"...not really. I've tanked guys out the bottom of the anchor...just like I've exceeded the lateral boundaries. It is about customer service...put down your coffee cup and get on the radio to coordinate a lower block or the spill-out so you can point guys where they need to go. There's no need to be reckless, but there's also no need to be a douche to the receiver because you feel compelled to fly exactly the frag.

SHACK! I've found that bottom of the block at 190 KIAS seems to keep the hog guys happy.

I'll tell you what's fun though: climbs and descents with receivers on the hoses.

Indeed.

And no galley panels filled to the brim with Kashi cereal

That's some funny shit right there. They don't call them Gucci boys for nothing!

Edited May 8, 2011 by Bergman

[B.M.]

We can't hit the 10 above 250K. And I seem to have myself confused about the flap/altitude thing. I am going to blame Jack on that one.

Blessed Tennessee nectar...

What airframe are you on? When you say 250K are you talking the 10 or yours? Again, the 10's basic aircraft weight is ~ 250K, and I'm sober as a bird. Unfortunately.

[Karl Hungus]

I won't lie...it has been a few years, but the number 540k comes to mind as the max weight at which I could refuel an A-10...

540k is indeed the max weight to refuel Hawgs in the -10.

FWIW... most folks I know tend to try to get down to 190-200 KIAS when refueling Hawgs in the 17-19k MSL range. If that requires 0*/EXT or 5*/EXT or whatever, NBD. Most combat loaded Hawgs (OEF combat at least) can refuel in that range without needing a toboggan. If they need one, we offer one. Sometimes the Hawgs refuse and give it another try. Their call, we're there to help them. I've never seen or heard a -10 crew refuse to slow down, toboggan, give an extra 5k of gas, request a lower block, or fudge the confines of the anchor if it helps the Hawg or any receiver for that matter. If that's not the case, it needs to stop.

Coronets are a bit different- fighters have to understand that in a non-VFR environment, we're a lot more cautious about altitudes and gas given. Usually not a big deal, but some fighter folks seem to have the mindset that we have a refinery on board. We'll give you every drop we can, but usually we can't go much past your fragged offload on a coronet without going below min fuel ourselves. We make a pretty shitty glider.

The biggest issue we tend to run into is fighters who try to make their own contacts. Park the jet in the center of the envelope, and let the boom operator do the only part of their job that doesn't involve making us our chicken nuggets.

This is all -10 specific. Can't speak to what the -135s do...

[B.M.]

let the boom operator do the only part of their job that doesn't involve making us our chicken nuggets.

Excuse me? Booms have a lot more to do than warming your "precious" nuggets....

We make pizzas too!

[Karl Hungus]

Those look great. Will share those with the booms I fly with to let them know the new standard I expect of them.

You guys actually sanitize?

[Hammer]

Damn you gucci boys have it good, our "oven" never works and smells like crusty 50 year old government cheese. If you want to find our fridge simply peel back the insulation panels over the crew entry chute, but be careful at about 35,000 feet your Coke will freeze solid in about 2 hours.

[B.M.]

You guys actually sanitize?

More or less.

Depends on who we're flying with: When the WG/CC is a former national boxing champion, you tend to follow the rules a bit more when he's around. Lest he lump you in that pitiful group of order/discipline breakers known as "gravel-walkers" and decide he should make an example for others who may be tempted to think for themselves.

Edited May 8, 2011 by B.M.

[Guest Crew Report]

Damn you gucci boys have it good, our "oven" never works and smells like crusty 50 year old government cheese. If you want to find our fridge simply peel back the insulation panels over the crew entry chute, but be careful at about 35,000 feet your Coke will freeze solid in about 2 hours.

Your base sucks. Fairchild jets had the new ovens and the wing jet had a microwave.

[Guest]

...or fudge the confines of the anchor if it helps the Hawg or any receiver for that matter.

but some fighter folks seem to have the mindset that we have a refinery on board.

I remember when the LPA was freaking out because the tanker was saying they had to save divert gas because of crosswinds at Lajes. That meant we were not going to get the gas we needed. One LPS dumbass piped up "Uh, Hog 1, Hog 18...Uh, I show I'm going to arrive over Lajes with negative 500lbs." The boss fired back "No you're not, you'll punch out when you hit zero lbs." A couple other LPA pond crossing virgins piped up and the boss finally said "Y'all STFU. There's NFW the tanker guys are going to let you run out of gas. They'll scrape an engine before that happens (-135R). You'll just owe them beers...like the beers you already owe us for all the fucking whining about gas. Now squawk stdby."

The biggest issue we tend to run into is fighters who try to make their own contacts. Park the jet in the center of the envelope, and let the boom operator do the only part of their job that doesn't involve making us our chicken nuggets.

Easy for you to say.

You haven't had any boomer nose/canopy art created a few feet/inches from your pink body. Park the boom where you want it and I'll get the jet to w/in 6-9 inches of where it needs to be so he can get back to making food lickety split.