Boss, I quit...

[Hacker]

I meant the banhammer thing dude, got the website, didn't get the reference.

The AW forum just has a very low threshold for idiots, and they relish the opportunity to ban folks who march into that territory. It's quite a sport over there.

[Masshole]

Not to derail, hoping Dave1 isn't exiled (cause it was getting entertaining), but do you have a link? Sounds good.

I expect all of the blatant douchewagons I interact with to have game. You know, be able to give back as much as they take. Not intramural type game, but real skills. Dave1 could not deliver and his "I know you are, but what slightly differentiated version of that insult am I" defense was a bore. Maybe he was on the verge of a breakdown, but I do not think it would have been that entertaining.

[ClearedHot]

Back to the topic, somewhat surprised the boss has not said a word since his initial e-mail...

[Bullet]

Back to the topic, somewhat surprised the boss has not said a word since his initial e-mail...

That's most likely because he asked his staff to "get back to me on this with an answer", and they, being the good staff officers they are, are busy working on a "Climate Survey" and the PowerPoint briefing shell where they explain in the BLUF slide the Regional Executive Fully Logical Explanatory Composite Threshold of Instant Value-added E-metrics Baseline Equivalency for Low Tolerance score, with follow-on slides that demonstrate the metrics they used to measure "dissatisfaction".

The eSSS will be staffed over the next 3 weeks, which will allow for every O-6 on his staff to have a chance to ensure thier happy-to-glads are fully adjudicated in the final product.

Just saying....

Edited May 24, 2011 by Bullet

[matmacwc]

That's most likely because he asked his staff to "get back to me on this with an answer", and they, being the good staff officers they are, are busy working on a "Climate Survey" and the PowerPoint briefing shell where they explain in the BLUF slide the Regional Executive Fully Logical Explanatory Composite Threshold of Instant Value-added E-metrics Baseline Equivalency for Low Tolerance score, with follow-on slides that demonstrate the metrics they used to measure "dissatisfaction".

The eSSS will be staffed over the next 3 weeks, which will allow for every O-6 on his staff to have a chance to ensure thier happy-to-glads are fully adjudicated in the final product.

Just saying....

This is what we expect, this is not what we hope for. Putting on the belt to go to bed.

[UPT-hopeful]

Never talk to the press.

But, if you do, make sure you're inebriated and jack with the unsuspecting reporters just a little bit:

[Guest hawkerdude]

But, if you do, make sure you're inebriated and jack with the unsuspecting reporters just a little bit:

That is some funny shite. WIN!

[FallingOsh]

Never talk to the press.

2

The whole point of a fighter pilots only e-mail from the boss was for real feedback straight from the bros. (if it really happens that way, who knows.) Sharing those thoughts with the media probably wasn't his intent.

[Guest]

I’m trying to find some current and/or retired pilots to ask them about their personal experiences in the Air Force: What is/was the job like, what are their future plans or why did they choose to get out, why do they think the Air Force may be losing so many pilots, etc. I’m also wondering what sorts of job opportunities are out there for fighter pilots. What will they do when they get out, and is it a difficult decision to give up flying a fighter jet in exchange for a civilian job?

UFB.

Q: What is your job like as a fighter pilot?

A: Fucking awesome. No way to describe it to a reporter. What's you job like as a reporter?

Q:What job opportunities are out there for fighter pilots?

A: Any job I want is available, including journalist, but none of them are as good as being a fighter pilot.

Q: Is it a difficult decision to give up flying a fighter jet in exchange for a civilian job?

A: Of course it's not easy to give up being a fighter pilot you idiot. Do they pay you to ask these bullshit questions?

Edited May 30, 2011 by Rainman A-10

[pawnman]

UFB.

Q: What is your job like as a fighter pilot?

A: Fucking awesome. No way to describe it to a reporter. What's you job like as a reporter?

Q:What job opportunities are out there for fighter pilots?

A: Any job I want is available, including journalist, but none of them are as good as being a fighter pilot.

Q: Is it a difficult decision to give up flying a fighter jet in exchange for a civilian job?

A: Of course it's not easy to give up being a fighter pilot you idiot. Do they pay you to ask these bullshit questions?

Playing Devil's advocate...if it is so fucking awesome to be a fighter pilot, why are so many leaving? I think that is the core of the issue this reporter is trying to address.

[Champ Kind]

I think Rainman is saying it's an internal matter and should be handled as such.

[pawnman]

I think Rainman is saying it's an internal matter and should be handled as such.

Oh, I agree...never talk to the press.

[ClearedHot]

So, I have a favor to ask. I'd like to hear your thoughts on what is driving fighter pilot retention down. You can send them directly to my CAG at usafe.ccx@ramstein.af.mil. They'll strip names off the inputs, then pass them to me, unedited. I'm looking for the ground truth as you see it, not the filtered, watered-down "this is what the boss wants to hear" truth. Once I've seen it all, I'll give you some feedback...including what I plan to do with the info.

Almost two months later and crickets...

Edited June 29, 2011 by ClearedHot

[Karl Hungus]

So, I have a favor to ask. I'd like to hear your thoughts on what is driving fighter pilot retention down. You can send them directly to my CAG at usafe.ccx@ramstein.af.mil. They'll strip names off the inputs, then pass them to me, unedited. I'm looking for the ground truth as you see it, not the filtered, watered-down "this is what the boss wants to hear" truth. Once I've seen it all, I'll give you some feedback...including what I plan to do with the info.

Almost two months later and crickets...

You're an O-6, correct? You as much as anyone should know what's wrong with this organization by simply reading what's discussed on this forum. What do you plan on doing with the information gained? You've been on this forum for at least as long as I have. What changes, if any, have you made as a result of information gained from this website? Or are O-6s now as powerless as the rest of us to provide the needed changes? Not calling you out, honestly curious if our O-6s are now as castrated as many of our O-5 SQ/CCs are.

[ClearedHot]

You're an O-6, correct? You as much as anyone should know what's wrong with this organization by simply reading what's discussed on this forum. What do you plan on doing with the information gained? You've been on this forum for at least as long as I have. What changes, if any, have you made as a result of information gained from this website? Or are O-6s now as powerless as the rest of us to provide the needed changes? Not calling you out, honestly curious if our O-6s are now as castrated as many of our O-5 SQ/CCs are.

Very few O-6's have real power to affect change. Sitting wing commanders have some leeway, but the average O-6 can not. If I am ever in position, I will do whatever I can to make a difference.

With the information I gained from this site I've done several things...

#1. I have provided honest, candid, often painful feedback to the senior folks I know.

#2. I made a promise to mentor those I think can carry the ball further down the field and make a difference...and I have honored that promise with several folks, some on this very site.

[WHAP]

Gen Welsh is making the rounds in the next month or so to have "All Pilot" calls at some bases. I don't know the agenda but I know the SOG guys at Mildenhall were not invited and were told they were not expected to go. Maybe he will announce his plans there.

[Swizzle]

Gen Welsh is making the rounds in the next month or so to have "All Pilot" calls at some bases. I don't know the agenda but I know the SOG guys at Mildenhall were not invited and were told they were not expected to go. Maybe he will announce his plans there.

Gen Welsh told me last week himself that he intends upon meeting with the flying squadrons around USAFE.

After speaking with him and Gen Gorenc for about 20 minutes about the necessary fixes the senior CGO and FGO corps need to manage the force and conduct the mission I really respect their leadership, effort, and candidness. It was unbelievable that they were in our C-130J that long. They have tough decisions to make that affect the way our Officer Corps conduct business, rankings, and promotions and they need information to carry out those changes.

[nunya]

Sounds like you've got some insight into their brains that you need to share with the rest of us.

After speaking with him and Gen Gorenc for about 20 minutes about the necessary fixes the senior CGO and FGO corps need to manage the force and conduct the mission I really respect their leadership, effort, and candidness. It was unbelievable that they were in our C-130J that long. They have tough decisions to make that affect the way our Officer Corps conduct business, rankings, and promotions and they need information to carry out those changes.

[Swizzle]

Sounds like you've got some insight into their brains that you need to share with the rest of us.

You've certainly heard the gripes before...

-

• 
  
  
• SOS in-res & via correspondence = why is via-corr. req'd to be competitive for in-res?
  
• ACSC ditto
  
• Horribly timed "required" Master's degrees (during SOS, ACSC, MQT/AC/Element Ld/4 Ship/IP upgrade - mostly between the end of pilot training and Major's board to second school look)
  
• Master's degrees which are as useful as a duck fart
  
• Everyone required to get a Master's degree
  
• Excessive, lame ground jobs pinned on aircrew detracting from sweet flying skills/knowledge (much like bowstaff skills*...)
  
• Family forgotten in the mix
  
• OPRs need to be re-caged to performance
  

*or sweet sword skills like the Asian guy about to cut Conan

(edit: forgot about the 707's)

Edited June 30, 2011 by Swizzle

[Shiner]

Add: Form 8s need to meet promotion boards so douchers who are incompetent in the jet stop getting promoted, ultimately making decisions for the flying community. I know OPRs should cover all leadership and potential leadership qualities, but your performance in your actual, no shit job (NOT SELO, ADO, BS with inflated numbers) can be quantified on a check ride and tell their own story about one's personal performance. I have personally seen (and I am sure many can relate) Mr. Repeat Q3 who no one wants to fly with, yet has all squares filled get promoted over a very good, never worse than Q1 IP who didn't get the Masters.

[Ram]

Add: Form 8s need to meet promotion boards so douchers who are incompetent in the jet stop getting promoted, ultimately making decisions for the flying community. I know OPRs should cover all leadership and potential leadership qualities, but your performance in your actual, no shit job (NOT SELO, ADO, BS with inflated numbers) can be quantified on a check ride and tell their own story about one's personal performance. I have personally seen (and I am sure many can relate) Mr. Repeat Q3 who no one wants to fly with, yet has all squares filled get promoted over a very good, never worse than Q1 IP who didn't get the Masters.

If your leadership were worth anything, "Mr. Repeat Q-3 who no one wants to fly with" should have that reflected on his OPRs/PRFs (ex: no strats, no "push" for promotion/school) and that problem would take care of itself.

[Shiner]

If your leadership were worth anything, "Mr. Repeat Q-3 who no one wants to fly with" should have that reflected on his OPRs/PRFs (ex: no strats, no "push" for promotion/school) and that problem would take care of itself.

That's the theory. But then you get into the writing styles and leadership policies on strats. Say Q3 and Q1 dudes are decent enough people outside of the jet, but not good enough to warrant an OPR strat (CC says only top 15% will get a number) or a DP and not bad enough to get a DNP. They do the same deployments and have similar jobs in the squadron. On paper, they can re-use everyone elses' uber exaggerated bullets on how much money they save the AF, how they make everything more efficient by 110%, and how they were handpicked (voluntold) to lead some extracurricular. No differentiating pushes, exaggerated fluff to make mediocrity sound phenomenal, and maybe a too lenient CC equates to the two people looking nearly identical. The board then has only one discernible difference, a filled square.

Maybe I am crazy, but I always give more credibility to a person who is good at their job over someone who pretends to be and has a worthless degree.

Edit: I agree the problem should take care of itself, eventually...just not at the O-4/O-5 level.

Edited July 1, 2011 by Shiner

[Ram]

If your SQ/CC isn't drawing a very clear line between his mission-hacking, skilled IPs and his unskilled, repeat failure safety risks...he's fucking up as a SQ/CC. Period dot.

Edited July 1, 2011 by Ram

[Ram]

It's wierd to me that Shoe Flag and/or Masters degree woes rank so high on the list. Granted, the requirement to do PME twice is ridiculous, as is the requirement to do a Masters in order to be competitive to get another. I've endured both and can attest to the pain in the dick they both were. That said, it seems trivial in light of the two main developments that have hit the fighter community recently, the first being the lack of opportunity for fighter pilots to actually fly fighters, reference TAMI-21, multiple ALFA tours, RPAs, non-flying deployments, 365 TDYs, limited (sometimes zero) opportunity for TX back to the jet, etc. etc.

I'm sitting here checking out the fighter assignments page for the various MWSs and it's amazing how the answers to Gen Welsh's puzzling dilemma are already written here in plain English, black and white, for all to see. I cut/pasted some highlights as I read along. ...and I quote, vebatim:

BL: There's one thing a T-6, T-38, MC-12, MQ-1, MQ-9, Army Humvee, and a desk all have in common: none of them are fighters. Strangely enough, fighter pilots want to fly fighters (for at least a fair amount of their career). They're not being allowed to so they're jumping ship. Questions?

AFPC routinely tries to use smoke and mirrors to convince a dude who a) hasn't flown a fighter for years, b) won't fly a fighter for years to come, or c) probably won't fly a fighter ever again that he's still a "fighter asset." It's the same bullshit they try to use to brainwash a finance officer into thinking he's a "warrior." It's a bald-face lie and anyone not in complete denial would rather just call a spade a spade and reconsider their options.

The second reason guys are jumping, and it goes hand-in-hand with the first, is the long-term forecast. Again, from the fighter assignments page:

BL: Non-patch, non selects are starring at a fucking dead end road. The growing impression is that the Air Force, especially as it downsizes, is putting all its eggs in one basket, and you had better be a WIC grad, SOS DG, CGO of the century, Wing Exec who is masters complete by your Major's board or else you can forget about it. Leadership constantly encourages career broadening but AFPC, at their own addmision, is typically unable to spare you unless you're a school select/grad. Likewise, they're unable to bring you back to the jet unless you're a school grad. What you're left with is a handful of golden children linned up for fighter command and a slew of passed over Majors on their third ALFA praying that they remain exempt from the selective continuation drama, and that their pension doesn't get deferred to age 60. ...Not an attractive proposition for many.

I'd say that pretty much sums-up the debrief.

[pawnman]

If your leadership were worth anything, "Mr. Repeat Q-3 who no one wants to fly with" should have that reflected on his OPRs/PRFs (ex: no strats, no "push" for promotion/school) and that problem would take care of itself.

I submit that if you have multiple Q-3s, then a good leader (as opposed to a good manager) would check the "does not meet standards" under "job performance".