Boss, I quit...

[Fud]

I think for most it's not an aversion to danger or a lack of patriotism it's the lack of seeing a positive effect of their sacrifice.

Agreed on this wholeheartedly, and was interested by the perspective of different generations in the military. When my grandfather left for WWII, there was no timeline for him to get back. He would have R&R, but that was about it. I don't remember how long he was gone at a time for, but it was significant. When asked how he felt about that, all he said was "I felt it was what I had to do". During WWII, there were gripes and complaints, but it seemed there was more of a purpose than in the conflicts afterward (Excluding Desert Storm). Almost all of the other wars/conflicts have been prosecuted in the wrong manner IMHO. Vietnam and Afghanistan could be talked about for ages, but I won't go there at the moment. Desert Storm was awesome in how short the conflict was, and how well it was prosecuted. I'm a Boyd fanatic, so I'm partially biased.

It's an idiotic saying that is just another symptom of the overall loss of focus in the US military.

We're in the military and our job is to fight (win) wars. Mission is first, period. When time and effort allows, then everything else.

Agreed on this, other than semantics of the word choice, following my response to Billy Pilgrim. I think we have fought a little to long in this conflict and that no clear objective has been set or met. Military success is measurable, and I never heard a specific objective (i.e. find OBL and kill him, etc...). I also think a lot of people in leadership roles would not like the "everything else" comes after the mission, but they are lieing to themselves if that is how they really feel.

[Day Man]

I think "war" is a bit of a misnomer for describing the current situation in AFG.

[guineapigfury]

Pylon to the family work balance...

I've been reading some history lately - specifically WWII, Vietnam and Afghanistan. There seems a marked difference on the mentality of those who fought in each conflict.

The "all in" mentality seemed to evident in WWII across the board - to the extent of some people eagerly volunteering to get to the fight and do their part. Leaving family was seen as a necessity and not questioned or really thought about.

Yes, and those guys knew once they got to Berlin, they got to go home. Today we don't have that. I remember something from OTS about setting clear, measurable, attainable goals.

[goingkinetic]

You can't do the mission without the people...The air force is about to find this out in about three to four schwarma years. It takes 8 weeks to make an Infantryman. It takes 3 years to make a WINGMAN.

[sputnik]

You can't do the mission without the people...The air force is about to find this out in about three to four schwarma years. It takes 8 weeks to make an Infantryman. It takes 3 years to make a WINGMAN.

It takes 13 weeks to graduate an infantryman. In my day I was told that it took a year to make a "trained" i.e. worthwhile infantryman. And that was about right for me and my friends.

[HercDude]

We single guys don't get showered with extra money, benefits, community help, and leadership falling over themselves to accommodate life choices like married guys do. Or maybe it's a CAF/MAF difference. I dunno.

Wait, let me get this right . . . . you think you have MORE money after you get married?

[slackline]

Maybe you have dependents? We single guys don't get showered with extra money, benefits, community help, and leadership falling over themselves to accommodate life choices like married guys do. Or maybe it's a CAF/MAF difference. I dunno.

Ignorant comment. I agree the community help might be nice for you guys, but most single dudes I know wouldn't take advantage of it anyway.

[nsplayr]

We're in the military and our job is to fight wars. Mission is first, period. When time and effort allows, then everything else.

This is true until the day it's not. How do you reconcile your statement with the guy who's commitment is up but his squadron still needs experienced bodies to accomplish the mission? For that guy, it's potentially a choice and he can choose to let the mission fall to others and shouldn't feel the least bit guilty.

[Danny Noonin]

We single guys don't get showered with extra money, benefits, community help, and leadership falling over themselves to accommodate life choices like married guys do.

Go help yourself to some milk and cookies.

[Guest]

We single guys don't get showered with extra money, benefits, community help, and leadership falling over themselves to accommodate life choices like married guys do.

Wait, what?! You don't?!

Man, that blows.

I remember being showered with extra money and benefits as being the very best part of the job. No way I would've ever served my country had they not showered me with money and benefits. Not to mention the showering of "community help."

Also, it was great to have every commander on base falling all over themselves to accomodate my life choices. I had no idea it was because I was married. I thought everyone had commanders falling all over themselves to accomodate their life choices.

Dude, I think you should sue the DoD. I know someone you could talk to about that, she has plenty of experience and it sounds like you two would get along great. Let me know and I'll hook you up.

[Hvydvr]

Well gents, 25 days until the start of terminal leave.

I was fortunate enough to fly 16 out of 21 years to include the last tour in the cockpit. As I look back at my misspent youth from the apex of my admittedly mediocre career, I can discern one simple truth for every single one of us, no matter which community we belong to: your time in Big Blue will end when you decide you have someplace better to be. It's that simple.

The other side to this is that the Big AF doesn't really care about you. If every general in the Pentagon disappeared tonight, the parties thrown by the O-6s would be legendary. The Air Force doesn't take care of people...people take care of people. If you're surrounded by sh*theads, expect to be treated accordingly. More importantly, if the organization you're part off seems to encourage and develop said sh*theads, you might wish to consider a different line of work. Also consider, however, that the sh*thead gene is strong and can also be found in most organizations, military and civilian.

Now excuse me while I get my black socks and flip flops and figure out where the satellite pharmacy is. And get the hell off of my lawn.

[ClearedHot]

Well gents, 25 days until the start of terminal leave.

I was fortunate enough to fly 16 out of 21 years to include the last tour in the cockpit. As I look back at my misspent youth from the apex of my admittedly mediocre career, I can discern one simple truth for every single one of us, no matter which community we belong to: your time in Big Blue will end when you decide you have someplace better to be. It's that simple.

Thanks for your service. As of late I think we've seen that your time in Big Blue can end when Big Blue decides.

The other side to this is that the Big AF doesn't really care about you. If every general in the Pentagon disappeared tonight, the parties thrown by the O-6s would be legendary. The Air Force doesn't take care of people...people take care of people. If you're surrounded by sh*theads, expect to be treated accordingly. More importantly, if the organization you're part off seems to encourage and develop said sh*theads, you might wish to consider a different line of work. Also consider, however, that the sh*thead gene is strong and can also be found in most organizations, military and civilian.

The Air Force doesn't care, people so is a very true statement, saying the loss of all GO would be celebrated it simply not true, at least from my point of view. There are a few GO's out there that genuinely care, have taken extraordinary steps and given up large amounts of their personal time to mentor me and help my family. Some of those leaders have thrived, in spite of a system that seems to reward towing the company line. FWIW, there are good senior leaders fighting to keep us from rolling off the cliff.

Now excuse me while I get my black socks and flip flops and figure out where the satellite pharmacy is. And get the hell off of my lawn.

Does this mean we will see you pushing two carts of full of cases of Bud Lite and Military Special liquor through the class six?

[Hvydvr]

Military Special liquor. Good point. I forgot about that stuff I'm going to be on a budget soon.

My previous comment about O-6s just means that they would be happy to get their chance to run the asylum.

[ClearedHot]

My previous comment about O-6s just means that they would be happy to get their chance to run the asylum.

Don't be so sure...

[Guest]

No kidding.

Well gents, 25 days until the start of terminal leave.

Now excuse me while I get my black socks and flip flops and figure out where the satellite pharmacy is. And get the hell off of my lawn.

Welcome!

The transition from being one of the defenders to being one of the defended is not easy but it eventually gets easier...or so I hear.

[Danger41]

The transition from being one of the defenders to being one of the defended is not easy but it eventually gets easier...or so I hear.

I'm sure posting 69 times a day with all the young guys pissing and moaning about reflective belts and masters makes the transition much easier.

[/sarcasm]

[Champ Kind]

Is this a sarcastic comment, or do you really believe that the priority is "always" family?

That's like the "safety is the priority" discussion; if safety was really the priority, we would never raise the gear handle. If family was really the priority, we'd never leave the house to do our jobs.

Nope. My number one priority is always the family. Sometimes I have to go away, but they are still my number one priority. From show time to debrief, I try to compartmentalize any feelings as a result of those priorities, but make no mistake-- in the end, I would try to come home ASAFP if my family needed me. Any other swinging dick can lead an airdrop or fly a bandage mission. My kid only has one father and my wife only has one husband. Last I checked, there were more than a few C-130J pilots on the Letter of X's where I work.

We are probably just arguing semantics, as one could say that my compartmentalizing comment above "counts" as a priority shift, as others have alluded to.

[Guest]

I'm sure posting 69 times a day with all the young guys pissing and moaning about reflective belts and masters makes the transition much easier.

[/sarcasm]

It is good humor, certainly.

I also care about what is happening in and to the USAF. I still have lots of friends downrange. As one of the defended I want good people to have a reason to stay in.

You'll see someday...it happens to everyone.

[sky_king]

Nope. My number one priority is always the family. Sometimes I have to go away, but they are still my number one priority. From show time to debrief, I try to compartmentalize any feelings as a result of those priorities, but make no mistake-- in the end, I would try to come home ASAFP if my family needed me. Any other swinging dick can lead an airdrop or fly a bandage mission. My kid only has one father and my wife only has one husband. Last I checked, there were more than a few C-130J pilots on the Letter of X's where I work.

We are probably just arguing semantics, as one could say that my compartmentalizing comment above "counts" as a priority shift, as others have alluded to.

Just because your family is priority number one, it doesn't mean you can't do anything else. Working to put food on the table and a roof overhead covers that priority. Deploying to ultimately keep Americans safe also supports that priority.

The core values say "Service before self", not "Service before family." That's the way I read it.

[Champ Kind]

Just because your family is priority number one, it doesn't mean you can't do anything else. Working to put food on the table and a roof overhead covers that priority. Deploying to ultimately keep Americans safe also supports that priority.

The core values say "Service before self", not "Service before family." That's the way I read it.

Aww, you quoted the core values. That's cute. You must be a PME graduate.

And yes, you are right that taking care of my family can be accomplished in other lines of work, and I will be seriously considering that in the not-too-distant future, as I do not see myself continuing to run the rat race of career advancement at the expense of my kid having her father around. We'll see.

[Guest]

Family first. I almost fucked that up. Don't.

[Day Man]

Just because your family is priority number one, it doesn't mean you can't do anything else. Working to put food on the table and a roof overhead covers that priority. Deploying to ultimately keep Americans safe also supports that priority.

The core values say "Service before self", not "Service before family." That's the way I read it.

FAIP, right? Also, less kool-aid, more bourbon.

[Champ Kind]

FAIP, right?

Wow, had I known he was a FAIP I don't think I would have glorified his reply WRT this topic with a response, but I suppose it keeps the conversation moving along.

Family first. I almost fucked that up. Don't.

Sage advice that I have had given to me in-person from a wide variety of people on many occasions.

I'm proud of my service and of the service of those I've flown with. That being said, I would be content to walk away from it all today. I feel satisfied that I've "done my part". There are other things out there. At this point in my career, I am going to need to be convinced to stay in. As I am not special, and the AF machine will continue on long after I would leave, I am not expecting much in the way of "convincing".

[Duck]

I knew this old, crusty, Marine Fighter Pilot who told the officers in his squadron:

"You can make a Marine choose between his family and the Corps only so many times before the Corps eventually loses out."

He told me that while him and his wife were trying to adopt their child that he deployed his @ss off, volunteering for every single exercise and "cruise" he could, because the way the state law was written at the time, he had to stay in the country from the time they got the approval till they actually picked up the kid from the foster home. When all this was going on they wanted to send him on a cruise which would have meant they would have lost their only chance to have a child. When he went in to his squadron commander to tell him that he was willing to resign his commission to be a father, his squadron commander actually took care of him and set him up for a later deployment.

[guineapigfury]

I knew this old, crusty, Marine Fighter Pilot who told the officers in his squadron: "You can make a Marine choose between his family and the Corps only so many times before the Corps eventually loses out." He told me that while him and his wife were trying to adopt their child that he deployed his @ss off, volunteering for every single exercise and "cruise" he could, because the way the state law was written at the time, he had to stay in the country from the time they got the approval till they actually picked up the kid from the foster home. When all this was going on they wanted to send him on a cruise which would have meant they would have lost their only chance to have a child. When he went in to his squadron commander to tell him that he was willing to resign his commission to be a father, his squadron commander actually took care of him and set him up for a later deployment.

Or having functioning sperm, technique only.