Raptors grounded over OBOGS issue

[Danny Noonin]

Good question... do you know the answer?

nope. Neither does anyone else right now.

So anyone that advocates sending all the pilots off to do something else for 179 or 365 is not thinking clearly or just trash talking.

What happens when the jets become un-grounded and no one is here to fly them?

Edited August 14, 2011 by Danny Noonin

[RTB]

Huh? Do you really believe that we should send a majority or even a minority of our Raptor pilots on random 179s?

Yes.

Huggyu2, I'm going to assume this is sarcasm?

[nsplayr]

If anything I feel bad for them (I know, I know...spears incoming). My least favorite days are home station when I'm not flying. Those days have the most bull and the least amount of what I became an aviator to do, fly. I've been DNIF for about 2 months and it blows...manning the shop and getting spun up on taskers and briefings is not ideal compared to days flying or deployed actually hacking the real-world mish.

Could you pull some for short-term rated staff, AIB/SIBs, courts martial, etc? Probably, but anything longer than a 90 day I'd say just isn't smart because this problem could be solved as quickly as it arose and then it's back to flying. And it can't be everyone...you know that the bullsh*t in a squadron hardly stops when you stop flying...

Edited August 14, 2011 by nsplayr

[Majestik Møøse]

If anything I feel bad for them (I know, I know...spears incoming). My least favorite days are home station when I'm not flying. Those days have the most bull and the least amount of what I became an aviator to do, fly. I've been DNIF for about 2 months and it blows...manning the shop and getting spun up on taskers and briefings is not ideal compared to days flying or deployed actually hacking the real-world mish.

Could you pull some for short-term rated staff, AIB/SIBs, courts martial, etc? Probably, but anything longer than a 90 day I'd say just isn't smart because this problem could be solved as quickly as it arose and then it's back to flying. And it can't be everyone...you know that the bullsh*t in a squadron hardly stops when you stop flying...

At least now they'll all have plenty of time to get bullshit bullets so the Sq/Gp/Wg execs don't get all of the good follow-on assignments! [ducks]

[tac airlifter]

Just how long do you think the jet is going to be grounded?What happens when the jet is un-grounded and no one is left to fly because they're all pulling short tours with your brilliant plan?

That's valid. Notice I specifically said "at some point it's in the collective interest of our force to use those qualified bodies in a manner which contributes and eases the load everyone else has been carrying." I'm not smart on this issue and I'll defer to guys who are. And beerman, maybe these dudes are already carrying their share of the short taskers and then some, I don't know and I'm not pretending to. My point is only that AT SOME POINT it doesn't make sense to have and entire community sitting when they could be flying or deploying. What that point is I don't know because as previously stated, I don't know the issue itself; whats' your opinion on how long they wait? Or do you think these guys should be waiting on broke aircraft indefinitely?

[pawnman]

nope. Neither does anyone else right now.

So anyone that advocates sending all the pilots off to do something else for 179 or 365 is not thinking clearly or just trash talking.

What happens when the jets become un-grounded and no one is here to fly them?

I'm sure we won't send everyone, but having an entire squadron sitting on their asses is way less useful than any of the other suggestions. And let's face it, Raptor pilots aren't exactly bringing the fight to Afghanistan or Iraq. I have no doubt if something bigger happens, we could get those guys back into F-22s in a hurry. Hell, even if all you do is the staff job portion of it, that would lessen the burden on squadrons who are actually deploying on a regular basis.

[RTB]

I'm sure we won't send everyone, but having an entire squadron sitting on their asses is way less useful than any of the other suggestions. And let's face it, Raptor pilots aren't exactly bringing the fight to Afghanistan or Iraq. I have no doubt if something bigger happens, we could get those guys back into F-22s in a hurry. Hell, even if all you do is the staff job portion of it, that would lessen the burden on squadrons who are actually deploying on a regular basis.

They aren't sitting on their asses. Their sims are running morning to night every day. Yeah they don't have air under their ass but they're training to the max extent possible. If you move any more of them to other taskers (they've been hit bigtime already with MC-12s and other fun 179s) they'll have a hell of a tough time getting back on the step when the jets start flying again.

[Guest]

They aren't sitting on their asses. Their sims are running morning to night every day. Yeah they don't have air under their ass but they're training to the max extent possible. If you move any more of them to other taskers (they've been hit bigtime already with MC-12s and other fun 179s) they'll have a hell of a tough time getting back on the step when the jets start flying again.

Please.

[DFRESH]

Return of the Raptor: The F-22 fleet will probably be up and running again "soon," said Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz. In an interview Tuesday, Schwartz said he expects a report next week from the Air Force Scientific Advisory Board task force headed by retired Gen. Gregory Martin, which will offer a way forward regarding questions about the F-22's onboard oxygen generation system. Schwartz said last week's evacuation of F-22s from JB Langley-Eustis, Va., in anticipation of Hurricane Irene was a simple early implementation of the "return-to-flight" plan developed for when the F-22 grounding is lifted. Schwartz also said the OBOGS has been ruled out as a factor in last November's crash of an F-22 in Alaska, which took the life of the pilot. A more thorough investigation of the crash site was possible during the recent summer months and yielded recovered hardware and computer memory that made a more comprehensive analysis possible. Completion of an accident investigation board report, long delayed due to difficulties in assessing the wreckage, is expected soon, Schwartz said.

[Guest]

Schwartz said last week's evacuation of F-22s from JB Langley-Eustis, Va., in anticipation of Hurricane Irene was a simple early implementation of the "return-to-flight" plan developed for when the F-22 grounding is lifted.

Yeah, right.

Edited September 2, 2011 by Rainman A-10

[DFRESH]

How does a UPT stud go about reading one of these safety reports? (Without it being just presented in a class)

[Breckey]

Go to your squadron safety guy. They should be able to hook you up.

[Guest]

Rainman...keep your skepticism to yourself.

Nothing cool about the family thinking that it was one thing, and then six months later figuring out that it was something else.

Noted.

Edited September 2, 2011 by Rainman A-10

[Danny Noonin]

Craptors have a black box, sts. The initial assessment of what went wrong was done without it since they could not recover it from the remote location in the winter. Translation: it was a total fucking guess. This summer, they found it and the container had lots of data on it. Turns out, actual data may lead to different conclusions about a mishap that are not even close to what everyone assumed before they had any good data...no more guessing. That's what he's talking about.

Edited September 2, 2011 by Danny Noonin

[SocialD]

Sometimes Big Blue just doesn't want to let the world know what really happened. That's a fact.

Yup, sure would hate for big blue to have to admit that they are totally fucked on certain things...we all know that won't happen!

There were two raptors flying today...

Edited September 2, 2011 by SocialD

[Guest]

That's what he's talking about.

That I get.

[Guest]

But I don't want people to speculate about the AK incident, or any other safety investigation for that matter.

Nor do I...and I already rolled my squawk with an edit.

Save those discussions for the squadron. Folks should go read the report, discuss what happened, and learn from it.

Agreed.

Am I getting the 6.9hr Barnyard debrief here or are you gonna let me up?

[BQZip01]

Am I getting the 6.9hr Barnyard debrief here or are you gonna let me up?

Quick! Kick him again while he's down!!!

In all seriousness, Rainman, no worries. You meant well.

[Daredevileng1]

9/19/2011 - WASHINGTON (AFNS) -- The Secretary of the Air Force Michael Donley and Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz have recently approved an implementation plan developed by Air Combat Command officials that will allow the F-22 Raptor to resume flight operations after a four-month stand down.

The commander of Air Combat Command directed a stand-down of the fleet May 3 as a safety precaution, following 12 separate reported incidents where pilots experienced hypoxia-like symptoms. The incidents occurred over a three-year period beginning in April 2008. Officials remain focused on the priorities of aircrew safety and combat readiness. The return-to-fly plan implements several risk mitigation actions, to include rigorous inspections, training on life support systems, and continued data collection.

"We now have enough insight from recent studies and investigations that a return to flight is prudent and appropriate," Schwartz said. "We're managing the risks with our aircrews, and we're continuing to study the F-22's oxygen systems and collect data to improve its performance."

In a task force approach to implementation, Air Combat Command officials developed a comprehensive incremental return-to-fly plan that balances safety and the expedient qualification of pilots against the inherent risks of flying advanced combat aircraft, officials said.

The entire fleet will undergo an extensive inspection of the life support systems before returning to flight, with follow-on daily inspections, officials said. The aircraft is capable and authorized to fly above 50,000 feet. Pilots will use additional protective equipment and undergo baseline physiological tests. The return-to-fly process will begin with instructor pilots and flight leads regaining their necessary proficiency, then follow with other F-22 wingmen.

Prior to the stand down, ACC officials convened a Class E Safety Investigation Board in January 2011 to look into hypoxia-related reports. At the same time, a Hypoxia Deep-Dive Integrated Product Team began an in-depth study on safety issues involving aircraft oxygen generation systems.

In June 2011, the Secretary of the Air Force directed the Air Force Scientific Advisory Board to continue the oxygen generation study concurrent with the ongoing SIB. A releasable report will be made available later this year.

The F-22 Raptor entered service in 2005. As of May 2011, the Air Force has fielded 170 of the aircraft. As America's primary air superiority weapon system, the F-22 has flown more than 300 missions in support of Operation Noble Eagle and deployed on a rotational basis to the Pacific region and Southwest Asia. F-22 overseas deployments support the Department of State's Theater Security Program, formal arrangements with our foreign partners to establish defense cooperation, promote regional stability, and deter potential aggression.

(Courtesy of the Secretary of the Air Force Public Affairs)

[busdriver]

Are there any Raptor guys in the current WIC class?

[Danny Noonin]

Are there any Raptor guys in the current WIC class?

There were. Two got rolled to the next class, two won't get to come back based on age.

[Getzen2]

Again?

F-22 Raptors at Langley Grounded After Oxygen Problem

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/21/f-22-raptors-at-langley-grounded-after-oxygen-problem/#ixzz1bRmRomu3

[TrainerModel]

who knows, they're either 1) still experiencing problems or 2) pilots are hyper-sensitive to it (i know i would be) and that weird feeling that you wouldn't think twice about becomes "oh shit, am i getting hypoxic?"

Not trying to talk trash, just a thought

[Danny Noonin]

2) pilots are hyper-sensitive to it (i know i would be) and that weird feeling that you wouldn't think twice about becomes "oh shit, am i getting hypoxic?"

Not the case here.

[snafu]

There is an age limit to WIC?