Raptors grounded over OBOGS issue

[Seriously]

2) pilots are hyper-sensitive to it (i know i would be) and that weird feeling that you wouldn't think twice about becomes "oh shit, am i getting hypoxic?"

Very doubtful.

[busdriver]

There is an age limit to WIC?

Not a limit, just a factor to consider.

[backseatdriver]

There is an age limit to WIC?

Not an age limit, it's a time in service limit. Need a waiver for more than 7 years TIS.

[db84]

Not an age limit, it's a time in service limit. Need a waiver for more than 7 years TIS.

Depends on the airframe, AC-130s MC-130s and 60s are 10 years. The limit is included in the announcement message.

[backseatdriver]

Depends on the airframe, AC-130s MC-130s and 60s are 10 years. The limit is included in the announcement message.

Dammit, Misspeak on my part. I think it's 10 for a lot of the WICs - 7 seems low.

Anyways - point being, WIC has a TIS limit, but not an age limit.

Edited October 23, 2011 by backseatdriver

[BADFNZ]

Saw 2 Raptors do the flyover at 'Dega today, so I guess they're not all grounded.

[Danny Noonin]

Saw 2 Raptors do the flyover at 'Dega today, so I guess they're not all grounded.

They're not. Langley only.

[Archa3opt3ryx]

Source: www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=23127

The F-22 program is nearing the end of its production run. When the F-22 Raptor fleet was placed on stand-down during an investigating into hypoxia-like symptoms of pilots (a problem caused by the aircraft’s onboard oxygen generation system), Lockheed Martin was forced to sit on some undelivered aircraft.

Speculation about the cause included excess CO2 being brought into the aircraft when it was started inside a hanger. Part of the requirements for the fleet to return to service was that they be started outside the hanger and have an additional filter added to the pilot’s oxygen supply. Pilots were also required to give a blood sample as a baseline reading and wear a pulse oximeter when flying.

Lockheed has now been granted an additional $24 million from the Department of Defense to find the problems with its aircraft (including the OBOGS) according to Defense News. The contract reads:

[Lockheed Martin] is being awarded a $24,363,993 cost-plus-fixed-fee contract modification for the F-22 Program to provide sustaining engineering and depot partnering task associated with non-destructive inspection organic capability, hypoxia root cause analysis, titanium crack growth, site activation, slider seals, and radar cross section turntable.

The F-22 stand-down has lasted for months. As pilots that are assigned to Raptor squadrons started to complain about their skills suffering from lack of flight time, pressure to return the F-22 fleet to the skies mounted. Eventually the fleet was returned to the skies even though the investigation into the planes’ oxygen system found no cause for the symptoms some pilots were exhibiting.

More recently a wing commander in Virginia placed his Raptor fleet on stand-down after a pilot had hypoxia-like symptoms.

1. There was CO2 in the cockpit when they started the aircraft in a hanger. ummmm...no sh*t, sherlock? People commit suicide by running their car in a garage...that F119 is pretty thirsty for air...
   
2. Why the hell is Lockheed getting $24M for fixing a jet that they (apparently) didn't design correctly in the first place? That's like saying "hey Dell, I'll give you another $1k to fix my overheating laptop...that you designed to overheat in the first place."
   

Edited October 28, 2011 by LoneWolf121188

[sky_king]

Are the worried about CO2 or CO? I'm kind of worried about drinking soda now.

[Guest]

I heard we had another one. Pulse-ox below 85%.

[brabus]

I'm so glad we're shit-canning 100% tried and true LOX for this bullshit OBOGS. Less MX is not worth this....then again neither are 69,000 new plasma TVs per year, but what do I know.

[BQZip01]

Why the hell is Lockheed getting $24M for fixing a jet that they (apparently) didn't design correctly in the first place? That's like saying "hey Dell, I'll give you another $1k to fix my overheating laptop...that you designed to overheat in the first place."

because the Air Force approved the design, ergo, the USAF is responsible

[B52gator]

From the Air Force fish wrap, there are a "small" number of dudes who no longer want to fly the Raptor.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2012/04/air-force-small-number-pilots-wary-of-flying-f-22-043012/

[billy pilgrim]

I'll fly it... Can I volunteer to replace one of the pilots that doesn't want to?

[BitteEinBit]

I'll fly it... Can I volunteer to replace one of the pilots that doesn't want to?

I'll replace the other one...

More AF Crimes sensationalism. I think this story could have been titled "Raptor pilots frustrated with aircraft problems, miss flying normal sorties" The 'small number' of pilots referenced probably meant to say they just want the problems fixed so they can actually do their jobs. But I don't know...I don't fly them.

On a related note, maybe this is just another reason to add to the many reasons to not cut corners when it comes to investing in our (the Air Force) future...That includes personnel. I'm just foreshadowing here....

[osulax05]

I love the line about KIO and RTB after any physiological incidents. Isn't that something that is taught and for some practiced on your dollar ride in pilot training? Do they have to RTB if they spill their piddle pack?

[ClearedHot]

I'll replace the other one...

More AF Crimes sensationalism. I think this story could have been titled "Raptor pilots frustrated with aircraft problems, miss flying normal sorties" The 'small number' of pilots referenced probably meant to say they just want the problems fixed so they can actually do their jobs. But I don't know...I don't fly them.

Sorry to disappoint...Actually General Hostage was very clear - "Gen. Mike Hostage, commander of Air Combat Command at Langley Air Force Base in Hampton, Va., told reporters that a "very small" number of pilots have asked not to fly the fifth-generation fighter jets or to be reassigned."

[Guest]

I'll fly it... Can I volunteer to replace one of the pilots that doesn't want to?

No.

[Jaded]

I saw signs of this at one of the Raptor bases months ago after they had started flying again post stand down. As a small TDY detachment, our detco had been invited to a meeting where the various squadron commanders on base brought up the biggest issues affecting their unit. He showed me the summary page that came out of it, and I remember two from a couple of the F-22 squadrons. One said something to the affect of, "The pilots lack confidence in their on board oxygen systems." Another (I think this one was from a reserves guy) said, very candidly, something like, "Our pilots are just waiting for the F-22 to kill another pilot in the wing."

[RTB]

...the Raptor bubbas ... are confidant in the jet.

Not a lot of the guys I know

These guys just want to do their job and fly.

Yep.

[Cap-10]

Segment on Nightline tonight:

https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/exclusive-22-raptor-flyers-family-demands-truth-air/t/story?id=16253815

Cheers,

Cap-10

[ClearedHot]

60 Minutes To Air Segment On F-22 With Langley Pilots Edited May 4, 2012 by ClearedHot

[Guest]

Not a lot of the guys I know

Same.

[Danger41]

60 Minutes To Air Segment On F-22 With Langley Pilots

First comment to that video on CBS News site.

Capt., I would at least show-up on national television, representing the United States Air Force and Virginia ANG with my-self within military regulation mustache. Totally, dispicable.

Hahaha classic. Moustache millenium lives on!

Edited May 4, 2012 by Danger41

[Guest]

I saw that, too. LMFAO.