Post first term assignments

[B1 WSO v2.0]

Howdy all, I'm looking ahead at assignments after a term at Ellsworth as a B1 WSO. I've heard a lot about ALO and of course going back to Pensacola. Any thoughts on a b1 test squadron? I have BS in computer engineering technology (not the best grades, but I have the paper on my wall).

[pawnman]

Howdy all, I'm looking ahead at assignments after a term at Ellsworth as a B1 WSO. I've heard a lot about ALO and of course going back to Pensacola. Any thoughts on a b1 test squadron? I have BS in computer engineering technology (not the best grades, but I have the paper on my wall).

Well, there's two types of test. There's the no-kidding test squadron at Edwards, flying the newest of the new and making sure it won't fall out of the sky, then there's the Operational Test guys at Dyess where you are essentially wringing out the last of the bugs and writing crew-dog level briefings for the new stuff 6-9 months prior to the ops squadrons getting it. Edwards requires an engineering background (I don't know of "Computer Engineering Technology" counts or not...I'm a business major) and test pilot slots are fairly competitive. Operational test does not require an engineering degree, but there are some experience constraints and you'll need to stick around your ops squadron long enough to upgrade to instructor (typically at least one deployment and 700-ish hours).

[ExBoneOSO]

... then there's the Operational Test guys at Dyess where you are essentially wringing out the last of the bugs and writing crew-dog level briefings for the new stuff 6-9 months prior to the ops squadrons getting it.

I'm probably dating myself, but is the 46th Test Squadron still at Barksdale, or did you bring all Bone OT to DYS?

[pawnman]

I'm probably dating myself, but is the 46th Test Squadron still at Barksdale, or did you bring all Bone OT to DYS?

Dyess.

[daynightindicator]

Pawnman hit the highlights of DT vs OT. DT is more "can this new piece of equipment/software safely fly in the aircraft" and OT is more "how are we going to use this operationally?" with the weapons school and ops squadrons obviously developing the majority of the tactics once it's integrated on the jet.

I have heard rumors that DT and OT may be brought together at Dyess (possibly Ellsworth) once we scrap the 6 bones that we're losing due to the budget cuts. It's just a rumor but our new WG/CC thinks it would save money.

Big difference between DT and OT is that for the most part, the DT guys are no-kidding test pilots/WSOs (although I think there are a few positions there that don't require it) and OT is just instructor-types with a good amount of experience who will probably head back to the ops side of the house after their time at the 337 TES.

[SuperWSO]

I have no disagreement with the statements above. I have a few additional comments though.

1) I don't know how it is now, but when I was at Dyess, WSOs were picking up fewer alpha tours than co-pilots. If you get to Instructor school ASAP, that opens up the potential for DT, OT and Weapons School. I did a tour in OT at the 337th and applied to TPS, but didn't make the cut.

2) OT at the 337th rocks. You write the test plans to identify what features you want to wring out. I got to drop live versions of just about everything in the B-1 inventory (didn't get to drop CBU-87/102). There were frequent opportunities to fly with DT in combined DT/OT tests. You get to know the guys at Edwards, and you have a huge impact on future changes to the airframe/community.

PM me if you have any specific questions. I'll be at Dyess starting in July and up North this Fall.

[Miles 69]

There is a massive shortage of Test WSOs at EDW right now. I'd get with Gyro and ask them if you are eligible and what are your chances. If you don't know who Gyro is, Lost or G-Dot can point you in the right direction.

[pawnman]

There is a massive shortage of Test WSOs at EDW right now. I'd get with Gyro and ask them if you are eligible and what are your chances. If you don't know who Gyro is, Lost or G-Dot can point you in the right direction.

Don't you need an engineering/science degree to be a test pilot/WSO at Edwards?

[Dupe]

Don't you need an engineering/science degree to be a test pilot/WSO at Edwards?

True statement. A technical masters also helps when you apply. There is a pretty small number of us TPS-grad WSOs/CSOs/Navs...I'm happy to talk about that career path for anyone who will listen. We need more qualitiy applicants for the blue patch.

[lmarron]

True statement. A technical masters also helps when you apply. There is a pretty small number of us TPS-grad WSOs/CSOs/Navs...I'm happy to talk about that career path for anyone who will listen. We need more qualitiy applicants for the blue patch.

Dupe,

I'm curious about TPS for WSO/CSO. Granted, I just got picked up to be a CSO and won't be attending the school till June '12 so I'm minimum 4-5 yrs out from being able to put a package together. I'll have 6 yrs experience as a 33SA (Communications Engineer)/17D (cyber guy) where I did write/conduct DT/OT tests for our latest and greatest Air Control Systems. My bachelors is in Electrical and Computer Engineering, going for a MS in Cybersecurity right now (will finish right before UCT starts). Having the engineering undergrad, I can tell you the MS in Cyber isn't the same, but its still somewhat technical. My worry is that the masters will handicap me, since its not a 'full up engineering' degree.

I'm hoping this could be corrected by getting qualified in a few yrs as a Instructor CSO based off of what has been said here. Deployment, 700 hrs, etc. Any advice?

[nsplayr]

I'm hoping this could be corrected by getting qualified in a few yrs as a Instructor CSO based off of what has been said here. Deployment, 700 hrs, etc. Any advice?

I could be wrong, but I'd bet all TPS applicants are instructors in their aircraft. What it takes to accomplish that also totally depends on what you fly. Know your goals (TPS, etc.) but keep your focus on the near targets.

[pawnman]

Dupe,

I'm curious about TPS for WSO/CSO. Granted, I just got picked up to be a CSO and won't be attending the school till June '12 so I'm minimum 4-5 yrs out from being able to put a package together. I'll have 6 yrs experience as a 33SA (Communications Engineer)/17D (cyber guy) where I did write/conduct DT/OT tests for our latest and greatest Air Control Systems. My bachelors is in Electrical and Computer Engineering, going for a MS in Cybersecurity right now (will finish right before UCT starts). Having the engineering undergrad, I can tell you the MS in Cyber isn't the same, but its still somewhat technical. My worry is that the masters will handicap me, since its not a 'full up engineering' degree.

I'm hoping this could be corrected by getting qualified in a few yrs as a Instructor CSO based off of what has been said here. Deployment, 700 hrs, etc. Any advice?

If you're a B-1 type, expect at least 2 years in the squadron as a minimum. One deployment will get you to the required hours to upgrade to insructor...after that, it's impressing the instructor corps and leadership enough to get upgraded.

I can't speak for the Master's handicapping you...I'd guess not, since the last two people we sent to Edwards didn't have any Master's at all.

[Dupe]

Dupe,

I'm curious about TPS for WSO/CSO. Granted, I just got picked up to be a CSO and won't be attending the school till June '12 so I'm minimum 4-5 yrs out from being able to put a package together. I'll have 6 yrs experience as a 33SA (Communications Engineer)/17D (cyber guy) where I did write/conduct DT/OT tests for our latest and greatest Air Control Systems. My bachelors is in Electrical and Computer Engineering, going for a MS in Cybersecurity right now (will finish right before UCT starts). Having the engineering undergrad, I can tell you the MS in Cyber isn't the same, but its still somewhat technical. My worry is that the masters will handicap me, since its not a 'full up engineering' degree.

I'm hoping this could be corrected by getting qualified in a few yrs as a Instructor CSO based off of what has been said here. Deployment, 700 hrs, etc. Any advice?

Mins to apply for TPS as a WSO/CSO/EWO/Nav are 500 hours or Instructor. With the spin-up / deployment pace being what it is for most airframes...most guys are eligible after only a couple years MR and don't realize it. If TPS is your goal, apply! There just aren't that many back seaters / back enders with technical degrees that are elligible to apply in the first place. A technical master's and being an instructor (provided you have 500 hrs) are nice to haves and certainly not requirements. I had neither when I was selected. A couple AFSOC CSOs and I will be giving a quick roadshow brief to the CSO school at NPA here sometime in the next few quarters just to turn guys onto the career. Lots of folks don't know the 12E career field exists, and the test community has decidedly noticed the decline in applications over the last several years.

[nsplayr]

Dupe,

So you were picked up without a technical masters? Did you have a tech BA I'm assuming? What's the role of a test nav? Honestly I know nothing about the career field at all; interesting that AFSOC let you go and do that. Interested to hear more about it from your perspective.

[Dupe]

Dupe,

So you were picked up without a technical masters? Did you have a tech BA I'm assuming? What's the role of a test nav? Honestly I know nothing about the career field at all; interesting that AFSOC let you go and do that. Interested to hear more about it from your perspective.

A technical degree (to include physics or math) is required for anyone entering TPS. For the record, I'm a F-15E WSO. However, TPS grad CSOs exist from most platform backgrounds. Granted, the NSA and U-28 pipelines are too new to have a guy go to Edwards yet...which really means that the need is great in that area. TPS-grad CSOs are mainly systems experts. We test all the new systems early in the devlopment cycle. Finding a problem or suggesting a certain path early in a system's life is key to cost effectiveness of the system. As an example, I was the first WSO in the Air Force to fly the F-15E's new AESA radar. A good TPS grad knows the system he's testing, how a requirement generated up on high becomes an aircraft capability, and he understands the fundamentals behind any system (be it a radar, TV/IR imager, weapon, datalink, jammer, or some combination of those). Here's the good deals up front: 1) Test Pilot School is a really really fun year. I got to fly 29 different aircraft including the Grumman Albatross (think Jimmy Buffet's Hemisphere Dancer seaplane) and a trip to Sweden to fly the Grippen 2) TPS grants you a Master's in Flight Test Engineering upon graduation. I never worked on my Master's outside of work and now I'll never have to. 3) With a TPS background and a good reputation, you can find a job very fast. The combined knowledge of how acquisitions programs operate and how your specific system works is a combination that few have. If you have a technical background and want to start paving the long-term roadmap for your platform vice just operating it, then Test Pilot School may be for you. PM me if you have deeper questions.

Edit: grammar

Edited November 28, 2011 by Dupe