Shoe Clerk Vol 3

[FallingOsh]

Yeah, I want to lead people that...kill people and break their toys. I want lead people to take the fight to the shores of our enemies so they stay off mine. I want lead people to protect our national interests both domestically and abroad. Is that wrong? someone has to lead.

Do you think that you will be doing much of that personally as 0-6 with 30 years in? Not being a smart ass, that is a real question. How many full birds fly missions in Afghanistan? I don't hear about it much so I just assume the captains and majors are the ones doing it most of the time.

Edit to add: I want to excel as a CSO and then possibly a pilot operationally but I want to stay in for thirty to lead.

He was making the point that your focus should be on fighting and winning wars. You'll be hard pressed to find people on this board who joined the Air Force in order to stay in 30 years and make rank. That's why conversations like this run away pretty quick.

I get that you want to lead. That's fine. But leading is not the end; it's a means.

We're starting tp repeat arguments and split hairs. Don't lose focus of our purpose as a military. Good luck at OTS.

[Slander]

We had a surprise visit from the CSAF yesterday here at the Kun with a Q&A session (in uniform, at the squadron, on Christmas eve at 1600...)

First question of the day from a SQ/CC type:

"Sir, my CGOs are working extremely hard. Harder than I worked as a CGO. I was wondering what your philosophy is with regard to the emphasis placed on AAD and the promotion cycle for O-4 moving 2 years. Is your priority for our young aviators to spend their first couple assignments becoming tactical experts or working on their masters? They don't have the time to do both well and I want to know how to advise them."

Answer:

"Great question. Yes it's on our radar. Here's my thought process: they should primarily and absolutely be tactical experts. We need our CGOs to be the ass-kickers out front and ready to go at a moment's notice, especially here at Kunsan."

So I'm thinking "holy shit...this cant be real...

Then he continues...

"But, if there are some of your CGOs who have the bandwidth and drive to better themselves we shouldn't foreclose on that opportunity by masking their hard work on promotion cycles. That's not the American way."

What. The. ######.

"So, I realize that's not the answer you're looking for, but it would be unfair to a CGO who is able to balance a master's degree with becoming a tactical expert if we didn't at least consider that capability when we compare officers. We need our leaders to be credible in their communities and should recognize the hardest workers."

Dude. Are you kidding me? Words from the SQ/CC later in a Christmas Eve discussion "So we'll continue to promote people who aren't credible but check all the boxes. Awesome. I'm gonna write an article..this is retarded."

Maybe it'll change again with the next Chief...at least we know where the emphasis is coming from.

Other things he discussed (without my commentary this time):

-- F-34+1 is the future of the force, they're going to SLEP 300-349+1 F-16s with AESA, counter DRFM, structural stuff as a gap-filler (STS) until the 2018-2019 when the F-34+1 starts delivering in numbers. He said it will replace the F-16 and A-10.

-- The main reason the CAF doesn't have the new G-suit is the company that manufactures them is unable to produce them in high enough quantities...they're "trying to get more faster"

-- F-22 gets Auto GCAS in a near term OFP update (I forget which one he said sorry)

-- USAF is going to try and buy the rights and intellectual property to the jets. IT's going to be expensive but it will save money down the road because we can compete the upgrade vs. relying on a company to not abuse its monopoly. Case in point, LM owns the F-16 OFP so we can only get upgrades through them. They name the price, we're stuck with it. If we own the F-16 OFP we can compete it and potentially get a lower cost solution.

-- Kunsan was considered to be closed because it costs so much...not gonna happen for strategic reasons but it will never be anything but a remote (costs too much to build the facilities for families)

-- There's a problem with the AIM-120D motor, once they fix it them they'll buy lots of them for all my friends.

-- He talked about the Air Force getting smaller...he said it's not going to be hollow we're just not going to be in as many places at the same time. He said that we're going to get smaller in the order of a few hundred airplanes and a few thousand people. When asked to specify airframes he wouldn't, just said it'll be 50/50 big jets and little ones, and will include ANG/AFR

-- Officer Accessions will continue to be minimal, OTS is running at its bare minimum now and will continue that way. The LtC/Col SERB "should" get us back to the mandated size. He said the involuntary things will not happen again in the foreseeable future and won't happen at all to the enlisted side.

-- He said part of the Air/Sea battle concept is to do better with what we have in the face of anti-access scenarios like China, Iran, Syria...use existing technology better between the services.

-- WRT compensation: he said that personnel numbers are down 45% from the gulf ware and personnel costs are up 65% from then. Said that changes are coming, and to expect that retirees may have to pay more for tricare enrollment and that the system will move to a combination of a defined benefits plan (pension) and defined contribution plan with matching (TSP). He said anyone in the service now will be grandfathered.

-- TA is a $500M program and will go back to 75% (where it was before 9/11) and we should expect to use VA benefits or money from our pocket to pick up the difference

That's all I can remember. Although it was Christmas Eve and I was in uniform at work, it was good to hear these things straight from the horse's mouth. I'm sorry I didn't ask about black boots or friday shirts.

Merry Christmas from the Land of Not Quite Right.

[Ramathorn]

He said it will replace the and A-10.

I might be a simpleton, but how the ###### does this make sense.

[Guest]

We had a surprise visit from the CSAF yesterday here at the Kun with a Q&A session (in uniform, at the squadron, on Christmas eve at 1600...)

'Nuff said. He is terrible. Worse than Skeletor.

I am a SSgt that heads out to OTS in a couple months, so all I should be worried about is how to get "promoted" to 2LT. Then, all I should worry about is finishing training.

Holy shit.

I made a comment about your lack of SA before by now I would have to say it is not low, it is KIO/DANGEROUS low.

I suggest you gangload and squawk standby for a while.

[FallingOsh]

I might be a simpleton, but how the ###### does this make sense.

That was always part of the plan, along with F-18s and Harriers. I'm not saying it makes sense. I'm saying it's nothing new.

[Ramathorn]

That was always part of the plan, along with F-18s and Harriers. I'm not saying it makes sense. I'm saying it's nothing new.

No, definitely not new. I just wake up everyday hoping to run into someone who can explain why and my response isn't 'I don't get it.'

[brabus]

"But, if there are some of your CGOs who have the bandwidth and drive to better themselves we shouldn't foreclose on that opportunity by masking their hard work on promotion cycles. That's not the American way."

What. The. ######.

2. Copy, you're full of shit and don't actually really care about being tactical. Please can he get fired ASAP!

I'm not holding my breath on AESAs, but that would be awesome.

[Seriously]

We had a surprise visit from the CSAF yesterday here at the Kun with a Q&A session (in uniform, at the squadron, on Christmas eve at 1600...)

First question of the day from a SQ/CC type:

"Excellent, well phrased question."

Answer:

"Bullshit"

So I'm thinking "holy shit...this cant be real...

Then he continues...

"Bullshit, Bullshit"

What. The. ######.

"Major Bullshit"

Dude. Are you kidding me? Words from the SQ/CC later in a Christmas Eve discussion "So we'll continue to promote people who aren't credible but check all the boxes. Awesome. I'm gonna write an article..this is retarded."

Boy did he miss the target.

*Shaking my head in disgust*

Let the box checking continue. Glad to see his priorities are straight.

[BQZip01]

We had a surprise visit from the CSAF yesterday here at the Kun with a Q&A session (in uniform, at the squadron, on Christmas eve at 1600...)

What a fabulous way to spend the evening...clearly morale isn't a top priority

First question of the day from a SQ/CC type:

"Sir, my CGOs are working extremely hard. Harder than I worked as a CGO. I was wondering what your philosophy is with regard to the emphasis placed on AAD and the promotion cycle for O-4 moving 2 years. Is your priority for our young aviators to spend their first couple assignments becoming tactical experts or working on their masters? They don't have the time to do both well and I want to know how to advise them."

Answer:

"Great question. Yes it's on our radar. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit...I realize that's not the answer you're looking for, but it would be unfair to a CGO who is able to balance a master's degree with becoming a tactical expert if we didn't at least consider that capability when we compare officers. We need our leaders to be credible in their communities and should recognize the hardest workers."

Therein lies the problem. He'd be a BETTER pilot if he didn't focus on pointless, useless degrees. What you are really saying is that a master's degree is the best discriminator and you don't give a slightest bit of a damn what type of degree it is or how it benefits the Air Force. All you care about is box checking. I think we all hear you loud and clear, "We don't care whether what you learn is actually useful, only that the drive to achieve is present. As a matter of fact it ranks behind doing your job."

Other things he discussed (without my commentary this time):

-- F-34+1 is the future of the force, they're going to SLEP 300-349+1 F-16s with AESA, counter DRFM, structural stuff as a gap-filler (STS) until the 2018-2019 when the F-34+1 starts delivering in numbers. He said it will replace the F-16 and A-10.

I will wager $223 right now to anyone who believes this pipe dream will finish anything but over budget and behind schedule. 2019 delivery rates simply won't happen

-- He talked about the Air Force getting smaller...he said it's not going to be hollow we're just not going to be in as many places at the same time. He said that we're going to get smaller in the order of a few hundred airplanes and a few thousand people. When asked to specify airframes he wouldn't, just said it'll be 50/50 big jets and little ones, and will include ANG/AFR

I call bullshit. Our Air Force is being gutted by bean counters and shoe clerks. They are only worried about efficiency, but our shortfalls will be showcased in the next big war (I'm betting Iran, North Korea, Syria, or China (in that order),

-- Officer Accessions will continue to be minimal, OTS is running at its bare minimum now and will continue that way. The LtC/Col SERB "should" get us back to the mandated size. He said the involuntary things will not happen again in the foreseeable future and won't happen at all to the enlisted side.

I call bullshit again. We are currently overmanned by 1400 officers. Cuts are going to continue to happen. I'll take a $23 bet on this one too.

This is the same guy who told us that the nuclear enterprise was one of the top goals of the AF and that "every single one of you is absolutely essential to get the mission done and we can't do it without you." Then, when asked about the upcoming personnel cuts, said, "We are going to have to cut some of you..." The guy's word/integrity is completely worthless and his leadership and inspiration is virtually nonexistent, IMNSHO.

-- TA is a $500M program and will go back to 75% (where it was before 9/11) and we should expect to use VA benefits or money from our pocket to pick up the difference

So the burden for that all-important (yet worthless) discriminator is now going to be shouldered more by our officers. Nice. One more expense that we don't need for something that's largely worthless.

/rant off

[tac airlifter]

Yup, he's been a worthless and uninspirational CSAF. I've seen him speak as well, he's articulate but his answers will often contradict each other; I'd rather he sound less polished but at least make sense. BL, at the very top we have no direction or vision or leadership, just a yes man.

[afnav]

I've read all of your comments about Schwartz, and the first thing that popped into my mind was sitting in a Ft God in Oklahoma City in about '97 or so, and the whole place roared with cheers hearing Fogelman speak to us. Definitely an inspirational moment for me in my mediocre career.

Getting into the nuclear enterprise discussion will just piss me off. They didn't take it seriously before the 'incident', and they sure as hell didn't take it seriously after.

[Vetter]

There is a great way to blow off a Master's, become a tactician, and still get promoted. Go to WIC. They are the Air Force's tactical experts and are the only ones given leeway with respect to box-checking (at least as a Captain)...as it should be. If your timing doesn't work out, you don't wanna work 12-16 hour days, or you just aren't good enough to get selected, then do your Master's or plan to get out at the end of your commitment. Simple as that.

[magnetfreezer]

There is a great way to blow off a Master's, become a tactician, and still get promoted. Go to WIC. They are the Air Force's tactical experts and are the only ones given leeway with respect to box-checking (at least as a Captain)...as it should be. If your timing doesn't work out, you don't wanna work 12-16 hour days, or you just aren't good enough to get selected, then do your Master's or plan to get out at the end of your commitment. Simple as that.

Or both SQ patches that are masters complete could get marked down in favor of d-bags...

[Champ Kind]

There is a great way to blow off a Master's, become a tactician, and still get promoted. Go to WIC. They are the Air Force's tactical experts and are the only ones given leeway with respect to box-checking (at least as a Captain)...as it should be. If your timing doesn't work out, you don't wanna work 12-16 hour days, or you just aren't good enough to get selected, then do your Master's or plan to get out at the end of your commitment. Simple as that.

I suspect things might be different in the CAF, but I think that in my community, the thing that keeps people from going to the WIC is that they become the action officer for every fucking thing under the sun when they get back because they have that rep as the "go-to" guy. I'm talking shit barely even related to tactics. It really makes one wonder if the end result of being a patch wearer is worth it. That sucks.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Champ Kind

[bucky60k]

I suspect things might be different in the CAF, but I think that in my community, the thing that keeps people from going to the WIC is that they become the action officer for every ######ing thing under the sun when they get back because they have that rep as the "go-to" guy. I'm talking shit barely even related to tactics. It really makes one wonder if the end result of being a patch wearer is worth it. That sucks.

True that. The first thing our WIC guy was tasked with when he came back was planning the wing formal ball. No thanks...

[Guest]

It really makes one wonder if the end result of being a patch wearer is worth it. That sucks.

It is worth it.

[Vetter]

I'm just saying the Weapons Officers have the highest promotion rates out there. That's all.

[tac airlifter]

It is worth it.

I'm sure it is in the CAF. I know it is in SOF. But I didn't think it was in the MAF.

[M2]

We had a surprise visit from the CSAF yesterday here at the Kun with a Q&A session (in uniform, at the squadron, on Christmas eve at 1600...)

My condolences. I don't think things will have any chance of getting back on track until we have a CSAF named Gorenz...

Merry Christmas from the Land of Not Quite Right.

Same to you!

Cheers! M2

[Tank]

There is a great way to blow off a Master's, become a tactician, and still get promoted. Go to WIC. They are the Air Force's tactical experts and are the only ones given leeway with respect to box-checking (at least as a Captain)...as it should be. If your timing doesn't work out, you don't wanna work 12-16 hour days, or you just aren't good enough to get selected, then do your Master's or plan to get out at the end of your commitment. Simple as that.

Even WIC grads are not getting promoted anymore when they decide not to get their Masters, finish their IDE, etc... Everybody is scrambling now to "check the box".

[Champ Kind]

I'm just saying the Weapons Officers have the highest promotion rates out there. That's all.

True.

Even WIC grads are not getting promoted anymore when they decide not to get their Masters, finish their IDE, etc... Everybody is scrambling now to "check the box".

True.

[brabus]

I've seen 6 weapons officers in the last 2 years working on masters/IDE, because they too realized they're screwed if they don't check the container. Nobody is safe from all the AF bullshit. Going to WIC because you think it'll make you untouchable/safe from masters/queep, etc. is the complete wrong reason to go.

[Jaded]

We had a surprise visit from the CSAF yesterday ...

Just to add to the chorus... WTF.

[brabus]

Just to add to the chorus... WTF.

Don't worry, it was probably a calculated decision to reduce the amount of Christmas Eve ammo bowls and all morale that goes along with them...you know, for safety and all. What a douche.

[BitteEinBit]

"So, I realize that's not the answer you're looking for, but it would be unfair to a CGO who is able to balance a master's degree with becoming a tactical expert if we didn't at least consider that capability when we compare officers. We need our leaders to be credible in their communities and should recognize the hardest workers."

He is referring to a very small percentage of CGO (at least from what I have seen) who are truly tactical experts (good and credible) AND are also very exceptionally smart academically. I can count on one hand the numbers of CGOs that I know who fall into this category, and I'm missing two fingers (not really). The problem is that no one really cares about the level of tactical expertise someone has, they distinguish these guys based SOLELY on AAD and PME completion...that is it! I've seen it first hand where the "piles" for P and DP were built based ONLY on AAD/PME completion before they even knew who the people were let alone their level of expertise.

Again, I do believe we have a lot of smart and talented officers in the Air Force, this isn't directed at them, but some of the tools we keep promoting don't have that balance he's talking about. Some of the ones I see who are your "fast burners" at the CGO level are far from tactical experts. Rather, they tactfully pull themselves off deployments, off the schedule, etc to get those Masters classes done or the job that will make them "look" good. Somehow these people shine (at least on paper) in front of those who make the decisions to promote, send to school, etc. Put put them in a room with their peers to lead a simple task and they fail miserably not just because they have no LEADERSHIP or social skills, but because none of their peers respect them enough to listen to anything they have to say. People like that have to get promoted and rely on their rank to "lead". Use a peer rating system and see how well they shine.

How many commanders have you had in your career that motivated you simply by their natural leadership style and not just because they were a Lt Col or an O-6 and above? We all know the difference. From what I can see, we are promoting more and more of those tools I've described above and less of the ones who are truly tactical experts who don't really need to go to "school" to learn how to lead.

I think education is important, especially when the degree directly contributes to the organization, but I will never understand how just having a degree makes anyone a leader. I don't think anyone can ever convince me...mainly because I've seen outstanding leadership on the enlisted side of the house by senior members without Master's degrees. To be an effective leader, you need to have credibility in your organization and part of that means being the expert. I'm certainly not good enough to just look at someone and determine if they have a Masters degree or not, but I can sure as hell determine who the experts are and who I trust.

We can beat this dead horse into glue, but unfortunately I think this is the new culture and it is not likely to change anytime soon. Young bubbas, just get your Master's done, stay in the books and be a real expert in your MWS, and expect to work a lot harder and do a lot "more with less" for the foreseeable future.