Shoe Clerk Vol 3

[discus]

It is obviously not our squadron's fault. They used the only tool they had to kick him out. It just doesn't make sense to me.

As with anything else in 'Merica, you would have to ask the lawyers. I do what I have to to ditch the shit bags, I also do what I have to to keep the good ones.

[BQZip01]

I'm just a SNAP at CBM, but I had a little shoe-ish encounter today that maybe some wise men can help clarify for me:

Wife and I go off base to a gym and to see a movie. Come back on later that evening, but at the gate the A1C checks my ID and pops a salute, while still holding my ID in his other hand. Me and the wife are in civilian attire. I give him a head nod and say good evening, and am about to leave when I realize he still has my ID. So I ask for it back, and he mumbles something incoherent. I think he's being coy and playing some sort of joke on me, so I just ask again if I can have my ID back. He responds, "once you render the proper customs and courtesies, sir". After a blank look from me for a few seconds, I realize he wants me to salute him back, while wearing my civilian gym attire. So I go ahead and give him one, and we drive off. What is the true protocol on this and should I do in the future?

Edit: for brevity

A salute is a sign of respect (or at least it is supposed to be). Assume the kid is saluting you out of respect and just return the salute. Look at it this way, if a Wal-Mart employee says "Sir, thank you so much for shopping here at Wal-Mart," a courteous "You're welcome" isn't obtrusive or inappropriate. Walking off in a huff without acknowleding their existence without even so much as an "uh-huh" isn't really polite.

[Recut]

Right and the shoe was completely in the right by continuing the confrontation out in the parking lot and blocking the airman in his spot. Oh noes! He wore his hat indoors twice? Definately deserves to be kicked out for that! I hope you never wear the wrong colored socks- twice.

The socks comment reminded me of a shoe-encounter 5 years ago at okas. The shoe posted at the door turned us away because one of the crewmembers didn't have socks on (he did have his shoes on though.....ha). He explained that they were in the washing machine- he'd ran out of clean socks (we were deployed to the deid where you couldn't wash clothes yourself so he was washing his damn socks).

What really got me is when we turned around to leave, we were instructed, "sirs that is an emergency exit only - you must go out the other door) WTF?! I told the shoe that we just entered the door and no alarms sounded.......it was the middle of the night and nobody was behind us either....where's the safety issue?! I completely understand the poor kid was briefed these "laws" and was doing his job. It was funny as hell, though.

[stract]

I'm just a SNAP at CBM, but I had a little shoe-ish encounter today that maybe some wise men can help clarify for me:

Wife and I go off base to a gym and to see a movie. Come back on later that evening, but at the gate the A1C checks my ID and pops a salute, while still holding my ID in his other hand. Me and the wife are in civilian attire. I give him a head nod and say good evening, and am about to leave when I realize he still has my ID. So I ask for it back, and he mumbles something incoherent. I think he's being coy and playing some sort of joke on me, so I just ask again if I can have my ID back. He responds, "once you render the proper customs and courtesies, sir". After a blank look from me for a few seconds, I realize he wants me to salute him back, while wearing my civilian gym attire. So I go ahead and give him one, and we drive off. What is the true protocol on this and should I do in the future?

Edit: for brevity

seriously? I've always saluted back when one has been given to me at the gate, regardless of what I'm wearing. It's a sign of respect. I've even returned the salutes of civilian gate guards who rendered them to me.

[Duck]

Yeah, that was a big change for me growing up in a Marine Corps family. My dad still doesn't salute unless he is in uniform / outside / cover on (or some combination of the above). The first couple times I went through the gate I didn't salute back either but just said thank you so much SSgt, have a great day! Then I realized that everyone in the Air Force salutes regardless of in uniform, when going through the gate.

[WeagleWeagle]

seriously? I've always saluted back when one has been given to me at the gate, regardless of what I'm wearing. It's a sign of respect. I've even returned the salutes of civilian gate guards who rendered them to me.

Don't get me wrong, I have always acknowledged the salute and been cheerful and polite to the guards. In fact, if there was a Maj out there checking IDs, I would not have felt compelled to salute, being in a vehicle and particularly because of the civvies. Until today I never had reason to believe I was acting out of the ordinary. I feel pretty bad that for the past few weeks my ignorance has probably been mistaken for arrogance. The reaction by the guard this evening was unnecessary, but at least from it (and here) I learned something new.

[Beaver]

Don't get me wrong, I have always acknowledged the salute and been cheerful and polite to the guards. In fact, if there was a Maj out there checking IDs, I would not have felt compelled to salute, being in a vehicle and particularly because of the civvies. Until today I never had reason to believe I was acting out of the ordinary. I feel pretty bad that for the past few weeks my ignorance has probably been mistaken for arrogance. The reaction by the guard this evening was unnecessary, but at least from it (and here) I learned something new.

Hold on a second here. Yes, you should salute the guy even in civvies. But he was waaaay out of line.

[BFM this]

Hold on a second here. Yes, you should salute the guy even in civvies. But he was waaaay out of line.

Shack!

I'll second the Marine response above; I actually took shit from bros for two things early in my AF career:

1) I would put on my cover approaching the gate (chuckles from bros)

2) I wouldn't salute when wearing civvies ("dude, what are you doing!!!")

But for the SP to sit there withholding your ID? WTF?

I've actually given atta-boy's to SP's at the gate. For instance, driving through the gate one day at a base that normally posts mall-cops at the gate, SSgt SP is there checking ID's. Takes my ID, briefly looks at the front, eyes going everywhere through the whole process (he's alert!, obviously he works the security side of SP's), flips the ID taking a .69 sec look at the back, (eyes still moving about), hands me my ID, snaps to Attn, salutes, and says "Happy Birthday, Sir!". My Bday was that week!

I thought that was awesome! I took 15 min out of my morning to send a note to his CC highlighting his professionalism.

Where is that sky-cop thread anyway? I loved that thread.

[Homestar]

Shack!

I'll second the Marine response above; I actually took shit from bros for two things early in my AF career:

1) I would put on my cover approaching the gate (chuckles from bros)

2) I wouldn't salute when wearing civvies ("dude, what are you doing!!!")

But for the SP to sit there withholding your ID? WTF?

I've actually given atta-boy's to SP's at the gate. For instance, driving through the gate one day at a base that normally posts mall-cops at the gate, SSgt SP is there checking ID's. Takes my ID, briefly looks at the front, eyes going everywhere through the whole process (he's alert!, obviously he works the security side of SP's), flips the ID taking a .69 sec look at the back, (eyes still moving about), hands me my ID, snaps to Attn, salutes, and says "Happy Birthday, Sir!". My Bday was that week!

I thought that was awesome! I took 15 min out of my morning to send a note to his CC highlighting his professionalism.

Where is that sky-cop thread anyway? I loved that thread.

That's pretty good. It does show attention to detail when they do stuff like that.

The thing that throws me off is when the Wg/CC is at the gate checking IDs...don't forget to salute first in that situation....

[Duck]

Dude, I totally wouldn't worry about it. If this is the worst thing you do as a 2nd Lt, you are doing pretty darn good. Most gate guards probably laughed to themselves a little and realized you had spent all of 2 weeks in the blue. The kid was taking advantage of that fact in a way. Things wouldn't have gone down that way with a Marine Colonel or Captain. Hope that helps.

[Guest]

You fucked up. What Noonin said. Easy fix, press.

The real problem is the disturbing and chronic examples of how we have trained our enlisted troopsto be assholes to officers.

[spaceman]

I have two tales of retardation from the fine establishment known as the Army Reserve from this weekend:

1.

When I got on base Saturday morning it was 5° out (wind chill was like -20). Everyone (including me) with any common sense was probably wearing their fleece hat because it was frickin cold. Now, our reserve center isn't much of a base (even though it has a gate guard sometimes), it's pretty much one road down the middle with parking lots and buildings on either side. So everyone has to drive down the same road to get to whatever building they're going to.

So, on my way to my building there were two cars in front of me. Car #1 stops and some kid private with a fleece hat on hops out and starts walking to his building while his mom/wife/whatever drives away. Car #2 (in front of me) pulls up to where Car #1 was and stops, rolls down his passenger side window, and calls the private over. At this point I was stuck behind him so I rolled down my window to hear what was up just out of curiosity.

Now the kid is standing next to this guy's car at parade rest so I assume it was some kind of NCO in the car. I could barely hear, but I did pick up said NCO yell at this kid to "take of that damn beanie and put on your soft cap" because it "looks unprofessional" (I guess technically it is a no-no to wear the fleece hat if you don't also have gloves on, but I have had a hard time finding anyone who cares, especially when it's legitimately frickin cold out).

The priceless part of this ordeal was the totally demoralized WTF glare the kid gave the NCO as he grabbed his soft cap out of his pocket and swapped it for the fleece hat. And the icing on the cake was by the end of this exchange there were probably 20 more cars behind me waiting for this guy to get out of the way.

So in summary, we have an NCO hold up traffic for pretty much the whole base, to yell at some kid about his fleece hat FROM HIS CAR.

2.

This piece of passive agressive literature was hung up in the building next to ours:

Now I do kind of find it annoying when people just "shoot for the minimum." With that said, I'm not sure what I find more irritating about this poster:

-The multiple grammar/proofreading errors (on a POSTER)

-The use of first person dialogue

-The low-resolution-to-the-point-of-being-unrecognizable background picture (I think it's a guy laying on the ground, but I'm not sure how that's relavent here)

-The fact that someone took the time to print and laminate a personal rant and hang it up in a public hallway

-Or, the attitude that the standards aren't good enough and you should be required to exceed them by some undiclosed amount (like we were talking about a couple pages back). In my experience, the people who talk like this are the type who max their PT test and are worthless at their actual jobs.

[Shortbus]

This piece of passive agressive literature was hung up in the building next to ours:

Well, if it's not official it can come down just as easily as it went up (sts)...

[BQZip01]

Now I do kind of find it annoying when people just "shoot for the minimum." With that said, I'm not sure what I find more irritating about this poster:

-The multiple grammar/proofreading errors (on a POSTER)

Good thing the guy here is a "100%" -type! I would assume, by this poster-logic, that everyone who gets a 75 will take a nap in the middle of a firefight for 15 seconds of every minute.

Tear down that poster NOW! This is NOT the behavior we should encourage.

-Or, the attitude that the standards aren't good enough and you should be required to exceed them by some undiclosed amount (like we were talking about a couple pages back). In my experience, the people who talk like this are the type who max their PT test and are worthless at their actual jobs.

Don't forget that these people also have a MASSIVE superiority complex and everyone is inferior to them...they are also usually single and can't figure out why...

[Guest]

If the min wasn't good enough it wouldn't be the min.

[spaceman]

Exactly. Well if it's still there next month maybe I'll feed it to my favorite shredder. I'm not gonna drive all the way up there just for that!

[ram02]

If the min wasn't good enough it wouldn't be the min.

"If you think the bare minimum is enough, then ok. But some people chose to wear more and we encourage that, ok? You do want to express yourself, don't you?"

[TheGuardGuy]

"If you think the bare minimum is enough, then ok. But some people chose to wear more and we encourage that, ok? You do want to express yourself, don't you?"

PERFECT

[BQZip01]

PERFECT

alternative: place this picture and quote right next to the poster.

[spaceman]

Now that is something I will defintely try if it's still there next month.

[M2]

It's shit like this that's the problem...

Roadmap to Chief

"An Achiever's Guide to Making Chief Master Sergeant"

[Bishop]

It's shit like this that's the problem...

Roadmap to Chief

"An Achiever's Guide to Making Chief Master Sergeant"

Awesome, it reminds me of that guy that was selling mentoring to become a AF pilot.

Edit: looked up the website, looks pretty similar to the Chief one.

https://www.becomeairforcepilot.com/

Edited April 4, 2012 by Bishop

[ram02]

Roadmap to Chief E-9: Left turn on Reflective Belt Lane, second right on Untucked PT Shirt Road, continue straight on to Queep Street.

[fossilsarge]

It's shit like this that's the problem...

Roadmap to Chief

"An Achiever's Guide to Making Chief Master Sergeant"

What a dweeb!

I've been retired since 1991 and outta touch. Maybe one of you AD pilgrims knows an air force office interested in a retired E-9 who uses

his official picture on a commercial web site. OSI? Google turned up: E-9 Jeff Urbaniak at Gunter in 2010. Site phone no. area code is Alabama.

[Duck]

Does anyone know where to get a WWROD? desert patch??? I will be needing it soon...