Shoe Clerk Vol 3

[Guest Ponis]

https://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123225825

More airpower enhancing information. I suppose some shoe's chair fly this shit.

[nsplayr]

Clearly this is a box you need to check to make Chief/Colonel. Honestly...

Unfortunately, most of the comments were supporting the Captain's sentiment. While I agree crisp salutes are great and all, come on, that's what you're gonna put your name to on af.mil? My god...the rationale of people in the comments. If I hear one more time "If you can't salute properly how can we trust you to fly a multi-million dollar airplane?" I will choke that person out.

[JeepGuyC17]

Best out-of-context quote from the article:

"I recently had the pleasure of experiencing an officer, who was leaning on a truck"

[Helo Kitty]

What the hell is this Capt's problem?

Call me crazy but I just do what my old ass ROTC/CC (ex Weasel) taught me... Always salute first and sharply regardless of rank/branch.

AB is approaching with that awkward look/sideways movement away from me so I give him a sharp salute with a excited "Good afternoon Airman?! Hows it goin'?!" I've never had a problem being saluted back..

Edited May 28, 2011 by Helo Kitty

[Whitty]

Holy shit. If the article doesn't do it for ya, read some of the comments.

One of my favorites

It just happens walking down the sidewalk and if someone doesn't take the time to tuck in their shirt or wear the right socks or whatever else rule they choose not to follow then what else are they choosing not to do?

[Murph]

I knew Cos from Hurlburt... he was a really good dude. I can tell you that he's no shoe clerk--he's done PRT duty in Oruzgan and once more in Musa Quleh. He's a pretty laid back guy so something must've happened to provoke him to write this article. That being said, I completely agree that it's a little queepy.

[Palangi]

My favorite comment:

Captain, it's the extra things like proper uniform wear, saluting, respect for rank, etc., that set us apart from Delta Airlines or Wallmart. Thanks for pointing that out because if I didn't wear the uniform then I wouldn't care.

Maj, Langley

I agree with the Maj, we are one wrong salute or one poorly spelled word away from Wallmart.

[nsplayr]

I knew Cos from Hurlburt... he was a really good dude. I can tell you that he's no shoe clerk--he's done PRT duty in Oruzgan and once more in Musa Quleh. He's a pretty laid back guy so something must've happened to provoke him to write this article. That being said, I completely agree that it's a little queepy.

Could this potentially be a case of non-judicial punishment? Nothing would humiliate me more than to pen a queepy article and have it posted on af.mil to forever enshrine my commitment to the Party line bullsh*t our AF has become. That would be a creative commander.

Edited May 28, 2011 by nsplayr

[contraildash]

Could this potentially be a case of non-judicial punishment? Nothing would humiliate me more than to pen a queepy article and have it posted on af.mil to forever enshrine my commitment to the Party line bullsh*t our AF has become. That would be a creative commander.

definitely an interesting way to look at it

It is kind of retarded to watch officers/enlisted artfully dodge having to give a salute in a parking lot or anywhere else. Really?

I always try to acknowledge the rank when saluting...especially with other services.

[Hacker]

I would pay good $ to watch that Captain walk down Disney Drive at BAF and render that perfect, crisp salute 69 times, each way, on his way to the BX and back.

Then I'd love to debrief his salutes at the end of that journey that were too 'dead fish'.

[Dubs]

I would pay good $ to watch that Captain walk down Disney Drive at BAF and render that perfect, crisp saluteion

Holy. Crap.

That walk is re-goddamn-diculous and even more re-goddamn-diculous if you make it while wearing a fleece jacket/desert flightsuit combo.

[StainedClass]

I reserve my best salute(s) for the kid at the front gate and the kid blocking me out after busting his ass to get us fixed and out safely.

The rest are queep.

SC

[HuggyU2]

It is kind of retarded to watch officers/enlisted artfully dodge having to give a salute in a parking lot or anywhere else.

What is it about Basic Training that results in so many of the AF enlisted going out of their way to avoid saluting?

I was walking down the sidewalk of the Navy Lodge a while back, in uniform, with 2 other officers,... and a soldier (probably in his mid-40's) in Army PT gear was walking toward us. He stepped off the sidewalk to make way, came to attention, and greeted us. Not over the top, just professional and polite. Not requirement to do so,... but you'd never see someone doing that in the AF ranks.

[amcflyboy]

What is it about Basic Training that results in so many of the AF enlisted going out of their way to avoid saluting?

I was walking down the sidewalk of the Navy Lodge a while back, in uniform, with 2 other officers,... and a soldier (probably in his mid-40's) in Army PT gear was walking toward us. He stepped off the sidewalk to make way, came to attention, and greeted us. Not over the top, just professional and polite. Not requirement to do so,... but you'd never see someone doing that in the AF ranks.

That's because the Air Force has turned into a Coporation, which means customs and courtesies are optional...and I almost forgot..everyone is a warrior too!

Edited May 28, 2011 by amcflyboy

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Military bearing and customs and courtesies are not shoe-exclusive (shoesclusive?) things. The same with proper uniform wear, adherence to regulations and things like that. The problem comes when emphasis on those things takes away from emphasis on the mission and leads to mis-placed priorities. Unfortunately in our anti-shoe backlash we tend to immediately write off ANYONE who mentions uniform wear or C&C as a shoe. This is not the case. A shoe is someone who equates uniform wear to aircraft operations, and genuinely believes that one effects the other (aside from my 12 hour flight making my flight suit look a bit sweat stained and worn looking). These are the kind of people who will say stupidity like "If you can't be trusted to tuck your shirt in, how can you be trusted to fly a plane" and makes a scene over it. Is the guy with the un-tucked shirt wrong? Yes. Is it important and something to lose sleep over? No.

The same holds true for saluting. The author of the article has a valid point. Most people salute like shit. The example he gave of a senior leader rendering shitty salutes at an ALS graduation is unfortunately a common occurrence, and especially bad in that example because it's a senior leader setting an example for new NCOs. Even guys who prioritize "important" and "unimportant" salutes can probably agree that being on stage at an ALS graduation is a time to look sharp and professional.

Now in Centcom there should be more liberal use of "hat optional/no-salute" zones, especially in the residential areas of those bases. Gotta love walking the gauntlet that is the sidewalk from the CC to the BPC at the Deid. Places like that should probably be no-salute zones due to their residential nature and high traffic volume.

I do find it ironic that we bitch about a lack of tradition and military professionalism while lampooning a guy for publicly complaining (and I believe rightfully so) about people and their shitty looking salutes. Do it right, we're not the Civil Air Patrol.

[Right Seat Driver]

Do it right, we're not the Civil Air Patrol.

CAP SoftSandy would take offense to that statement.

[Guest Ponis]

It just kills me to see this on the front page of af.mil when we are at war. We have good folks doing good things across the globe, and all we can talk about is stupid things like saluting correctly and the academy cadets breaking some stupid dodge ball record. YGTBSM!

Edited May 28, 2011 by Ponis

[Spoo]

Could this potentially be a case of non-judicial punishment? Nothing would humiliate me more than to pen a queepy article and have it posted on af.mil to forever enshrine my commitment to the Party line bullsh*t our AF has become. That would be a creative commander.

I doubt it. Dude commented on his own article:

It is interesting. I wrote this article months ago. The reason I wrote it is not to measure sock height or other items. I'm the last one to micro-manage anything. It was not even to point out lower ranking Airmen saluting. As a leader saluting Airmen during an award ceremony for their utter AWESOMENESS and their sacrifice to make this Air Force the best, I believe the Airman deserves a sharp crisp and professional salute. I think it will be a sad day when I can't take the time once in my life to get a sharp salute. I had the benefit twice when I was an Airman Basic and once again as a lieutenant.

Cos, Iraq

EDIT: This guy's worried about saluting? I think proper grammar and writing intelligible sentences are far more important when trying to present the image of a competent, professional Airman.

Edited May 29, 2011 by Spoo

[pawnman]

Military bearing and customs and courtesies are not shoe-exclusive (shoesclusive?) things. The same with proper uniform wear, adherence to regulations and things like that. The problem comes when emphasis on those things takes away from emphasis on the mission and leads to mis-placed priorities. Unfortunately in our anti-shoe backlash we tend to immediately write off ANYONE who mentions uniform wear or C&C as a shoe. This is not the case. A shoe is someone who equates uniform wear to aircraft operations, and genuinely believes that one effects the other (aside from my 12 hour flight making my flight suit look a bit sweat stained and worn looking). These are the kind of people who will say stupidity like "If you can't be trusted to tuck your shirt in, how can you be trusted to fly a plane" and makes a scene over it. Is the guy with the un-tucked shirt wrong? Yes. Is it important and something to lose sleep over? No.

The same holds true for saluting. The author of the article has a valid point. Most people salute like shit. The example he gave of a senior leader rendering shitty salutes at an ALS graduation is unfortunately a common occurrence, and especially bad in that example because it's a senior leader setting an example for new NCOs. Even guys who prioritize "important" and "unimportant" salutes can probably agree that being on stage at an ALS graduation is a time to look sharp and professional.

Now in Centcom there should be more liberal use of "hat optional/no-salute" zones, especially in the residential areas of those bases. Gotta love walking the gauntlet that is the sidewalk from the CC to the BPC at the Deid. Places like that should probably be no-salute zones due to their residential nature and high traffic volume.

I do find it ironic that we bitch about a lack of tradition and military professionalism while lampooning a guy for publicly complaining (and I believe rightfully so) about people and their shitty looking salutes. Do it right, we're not the Civil Air Patrol.

Especially at night.

[mp5g]

That's because the Air Force has turned into a Coporation, which means customs and courtesies are optional...and I almost forgot..everyone is a warrior too!

Well.... a reflective warrior.

[tac airlifter]

Well.... a reflective warrior.

Reflective belts-- ruining attempted tough guy pictures since 2001.

[Learjetter]

Reflective belts-- ruining attempted tough guy pictures since 2001.

You mean "since 1991"...

[GovernmentMan]

Low-hanging fruit. Everybody can probably agree that a lot of salutes look like shit. The shoes get to feel vindicated about emphasizing such a critically important aspect of C&C. Everybody else gets to storm the keep over stupid priorities.

Oh, and the writer gets an OPR bullet.

[snoopyeast]

Another good quote from the comments

"A salute today, PT uniform tomorrow, a failed NSI next week."

[Guest]

WWROD