"No Rank Amongst Lieutenants"

[Champ Kind]

your precious time will only get less with every year you're in the AF.

So, so, so true.

Learn it, live it, love it.

[GovernmentMan]

Not knowing when you're supposed to get promoted is kind of like not knowing when your mortgage payment is due, or when your insurance expires, or when your next flight physical is supposed to be. It's so simple, takes so little effort...but is kind of important.

Edited June 2, 2011 by GovernmentMan

[Guest Crew Report]

Because most of the people have their head burried in the dash 1 studying the shit out of the T-6/-1/-38/etc when it happens...and nobody gives a shit.

I remember seeing pictures of a promotion party of a ROTC buddy on Facebook. He had a party, guests, cake, etc...he was a finance officer. He had already been doing his REAL job for several months.

What are UPT students doing when they hit 1LT? They are STUDENTS. The last thing on anyones mind is their date of rank. They are just trying to survive the day to day grind.

I know...because I was one of those guys who missed their own promotion. Nobody gave a shit.

Trying to convince a 2LT to keep tabs on something that insignificant (IMO) is silly. Worry about something "important" like being prepared for your flight. Not running around all day getting shit sown onto your flight suit while you are still in formal release.

So you were a big studier as a student? Guessed you skipped the studying part while your were a FTU student. It's that "whole person concept" thing. Plenty of Pilots, Booms, Loads, Navs, etc excel at being aviators and also excel at the "insignificant" things in the AF. Leadership usually notices those "insignificant" things that they do correctly as well as those individuals being well-rounded aviator. They also notice the dude who's been wearing 1Lt for the past two weeks when he should've had Capt on already. I've seen a 3,000 hour Capt/copilot and a barely enough hours to upgrade/1Lt AC before. Guess who's getting RIF'd in a few months and guess who's not?

Edited June 2, 2011 by Crew Report

[Danny Noonin]

For all the whining that happens on this forum about reflective belts and shoeclerkery other non-mission focused nonsense (and how the shoeclerks grab on to that nonsense and blow it out of proportion) there sure is a lot of high-horse lecturing going on about the importance of lieutenants saluting lieutenants and other ridiculous shit.

"it's easy to salute"...yeah well it's easy to wear a reflective belt inside too. Let it go.

[polcat]

You're crazy.

I'm hours away from not being a LT anymore, and I know that date. But in the last four years, I've gotten so ing sick of people lecturing me about my career. I don't have time for a career. I'm in phase for mission and qual checks, trying to start upgrade training, and semi-annuals are due in less than a month. That doesn't even touch my non-flying duties. How about I worry about my job and when I need to know my date of rank, I'll check VMPF.

And you think it's going to get easier as your career progresses? Sounds like your making excuses and need to learn how to balance your responsibilities. There is no reason why anyone should be worried about checkrides unless you know that your GK and flying skills sucks. It doesn't take that long to check vMPF anyway. Besides, if you don't have your s%*t stacked tight, you won't have a career. It's the way the AF is and I wouldn't expect it to change.

[M2]

Nothing funnier than a lieutenant that claims to be so busy that they can't remember to salute!

It ain't gonna get any easier, boys; learn to deal with all of it from the onset; otherwise you're not gonna be a happy camper in the near future.

One day you'll look back on these days with pure envy as to how simple things were!

[Skyclops]

And on top of all that, most of my bros lately haven't even realized they are a 1 Lt for a few weeks until they can't figure out why their paycheck went up or they randomly check MPF and have the "damn, I was supposed to be wearing blue on my shoulders for a few weeks now." There's no notice, no board, no reason to really feel like anything's changed.

If you want to give your bros a notice or feeling of change in rolling over the 1Lt mark, take them to a bar or the shopette and demand free drinks. They'll feel the change when they wake up with a hangover and check their bank account. Hold them accountable!

[Spoo]

Because most of the people have their head burried in the dash 1 studying the shit out of the T-6/-1/-38/etc when it happens...and nobody gives a shit.

I remember seeing pictures of a promotion party of a ROTC buddy on Facebook. He had a party, guests, cake, etc...he was a finance officer. He had already been doing his REAL job for several months.

What are UPT students doing when they hit 1LT? They are STUDENTS. The last thing on anyones mind is their date of rank. They are just trying to survive the day to day grind.

I know...because I was one of those guys who missed their own promotion. Nobody gave a shit.

Trying to convince a 2LT to keep tabs on something that insignificant (IMO) is silly. Worry about something "important" like being prepared for your flight. Not running around all day getting shit sown onto your flight suit while you are still in formal release.

Guess what Jack, UPT stud was/is your "real" job.

What a crock of shit.

Edited June 3, 2011 by Spoo

[Guest Sandlapper]

For all the whining that happens on this forum about reflective belts and shoeclerkery other non-mission focused nonsense (and how the shoeclerks grab on to that nonsense and blow it out of proportion) there sure is a lot of high-horse lecturing going on about the importance of lieutenants saluting lieutenants and other ridiculous shit.

"it's easy to salute"...yeah well it's easy to wear a reflective belt inside too. Let it go.

Shack.

[nsplayr]

Not knowing your date of rank for the 2Lt-1Lt changeover is absolutely idiotic. Seriously...it's generally very near the day you commissioned, except 2 years later, shouldn't be that goddamned hard to remember. vMPF is your friend if you're iceberg is too full for that particular penguin.

Big "2" on the making the dudes buy drinks. I too laugh at the completely unnecessary pomp and circumstance of the 2Lt finance officer promotion party (and I've seen pics from my friends recently), but that's their tradition. In a flying squadron you buy you bros drinks and get sh*tfaced, embrace that tradition and be glad it's a hell of a lot more fun than putting on service dress and standing on a stage with your SQ/CC.

LTs not saluting each other in appropriately low-threat situations, smart & very bro-like. LTs not having enough SA on when they themselves pin on new rank and then quibbling that they were "too busy," give me a f*cking break.

Edited June 3, 2011 by nsplayr

[AEWingsMN]

If you want to give your bros a notice or feeling of change in rolling over the 1Lt mark, take them to a bar or the shopette and demand free drinks. They'll feel the change when they wake up with a hangover and check their bank account. Hold them accountable!

Haha, yes, because I really know their DOR if even they don't. I for one did not miss it, and I didn't think it was all that difficult to keep track of until the last few months when others have said something about it in passing... "turns out I was supposed to be wearing these a week ago".

That being said, most of us have like 6-9 different dates around the same time due to the 6 months delay from commissioning to EAD. We have a DOR, a date our pay changes, an official date of service... etc, and I think a lot of people don't understand which is which. My only real question about them is whether DOR means put the rank on that day, or the next, because it didn't change in vMPF until the next day.... I also think it is throwing people off that our DOR is less than 2 years of actual time working as a 2 Lt, mine was after 21 months because it is at a half way point between Commissioning and EAD. So I think people just aren't expecting it for another couple of months. I had a good eye on my DOR coming up, but I can definitely see where someone else would overlook it.

Anyway, that was all a sidenote... the reason I mentioned it in the first place is because it was an emphasis for how little of a difference there really is between a 1st and 2nd LT.

Edited June 3, 2011 by AEWingsMN

[Guest]

take them to a bar or the shopette and demand free drinks.

WTFO?

[SocialD]

I never understood why this attitude was considered "cool." I understand it's not the biggest promotion in the world going from second lieutenant to first, but how hard is it to take just a little bit of interest in your own career and know your own date of rank? That way, you could drop the 50 cents at the BX a few days ahead of time, pick up some blue bars, and have them sewn on so you can show up wearing the right rank on the right day. Call me crazy, but that sounds like something an "officer" would do -- you know, having some SA and taking some personal responsibility for something related to their career.

Edit: spelling

Tactical deception! What...oh ya, I knew my DOR was coming up, totally forgot! I'll go get that sewn on ASAP. That will work for about 2-3 lower level guys, but only 1 DO or CC, then it's time to fix it. Another good one is the, "oh crap I wore one of my old flightsuits with 2LT (or 1LT) rank!" It's a fine art, but done correctly, you can stretch that out for a few weeks or, if you're good, months! Key is to avoid leadership at all costs! Also stay away from anyone that has already heard your excuses...this keeps them from catching on to your ploy! The vault is generally the best place to avoid all who would actually give a damn....plus much of what you need, to be good at your job (flying/killing), is conveniently located there as well! Now this is important...if found out, bribes may work! I recommend Glenlivet 18 year or better, Johnnie Walker Green, Jameson 18 year, or the standard Jack! Goodluck!

I want all the pay of Capt with the responsibility of a LT Fighter Pilot. It was the best job I have ever had in the SQ! My job was to fly, know everything I could about flying my jet, fly some more and keep the bar stocked. Not get all bogged down with BS "additional duties," that really relegate flying to an additional duty and let your skills atrophy...why would you want to get promoted (minus the pay)! I about the first time I had to say, I need off the schedule or said I couldn't fill that open line because I had to work to do! Here I thought my job was to be a pilot.

Not knowing your date of rank for the 2Lt-1Lt changeover is absolutely idiotic. Seriously...it's generally very near the day you commissioned, except 2 years later, shouldn't be that goddamned hard to remember.

My wife's birthday and our anniversary, should be easy to remember too...but I seem to screw that up year to year!

vMPF is your friend if you're iceberg is too full for that particular penguin.

2! I make it a point to check it about once a month, mainly so I can unf%ck the inevitable errors! Takes all of about 2-3 minutes if everything is correct.

Edited June 3, 2011 by SocialD

[nsplayr]

My job was to fly, know everything I could about flying my jet, fly some more and keep the bar stocked. Not get all bogged down with BS "additional duties," that really relegate flying to an additional duty and let your skills atrophy...why would you want to get promoted (minus the pay)! I about the first time I had to say, I need off the schedule or said I couldn't fill that open line because I had to work to do! Here I thought my job was to be a pilot.

I've heard from the old heads that this used to be the standard in AFSOC...if there were any new LTs in the squadron they didn't have additional duties because their one and only duty was to become decently proficient in the aircraft and the mission. Sounds like a sweet concept...

[ThreeHoler]

When I showed up at my first assignment, my primary and secondary duties, as assigned by the Chief Pilot were the same as all the new FOs: Learn to fly the jet and after 6-9 months then get a "real" secondary duty. I took that time and focused only on the flying...it is criminal that dudes are showing up and being loaded up with additional duties from the get-go these days.

And I wasn't a first assignment FO all that long ago...

[Hacker]

What is a "First assignment FO"?

[stract]

FO is short for NFO (he's a Navy Flight Officer, aka WSO)

[Boxhead]

I've heard from the old heads that this used to be the standard in AFSOC...if there were any new LTs in the squadron they didn't have additional duties because their one and only duty was to become decently proficient in the aircraft and the mission. Sounds like a sweet concept...

It's not an "old" standard, it's a current policy, just one that is ignored by virtually everyone. I'll have to dig up the letter. It basically says exactly what you just wrote, if you are a new guy, you will not have any duties except flying for the first 6 months or so. I think that is something I may start to bring up again...it's a fantastic policy.

[nsplayr]

Yea, that'd be nice but manning-wise it's just not possible I don't think. It either adhere to that policy or man the shops, either/or unfortunately. With damn near everyone pushing 3-4 additional duties we can't really afford to have new guys not helping in the Global War on Queep (GWOQ).

Edited June 4, 2011 by nsplayr

[BFM this]

It's not an "old" standard, it's a current policy, just one that is ignored by virtually everyone. I'll have to dig up the letter. It basically says exactly what you just wrote, if you are a new guy, you will not have any duties except flying for the first 6 months or so. I think that is something I may start to bring up again...it's a fantastic policy.

Yep--it's written in our vol 1, a year actually.. And ignored wholesale starting the day you finish mqt.

[ThreeHoler]

FO is short for NFO (he's a Navy Flight Officer, aka WSO)

Bzzt. Not correct in this case. But good try!

First Officer. What the rest of the world calls a "copilot."

[Hacker]

Bzzt. Not correct in this case. But good try!

First Officer. What the rest of the world calls a "copilot."

Where in the military is a copilot called a "First Officer"?

[StoleIt]

Bzzt. Not correct in this case. But good try!

First Officer. What the rest of the world calls a "copilot."

[nsplayr]

On the Starship Enterprise?

[ThreeHoler]

You can find many examples in the -1 of certain aircraft. But ye of narrow mind and quick anger probably would have a cranial explosion if you were to actually read it in print.