Hooking rides at UPT vs UNT

[barney]

ive heard that you only get three chances to pass either a check ride or written test at UNT/Randolph, the whole time, and it is very realistic that one may drop out. on the flip side ive heard that you get like forty tries in UPT and you are basically forced through the program.

how do the two compare with regards to attrtion and tolerance?

[ 01. August 2006, 19:25: Message edited by: Toro ]

[Guest RamRod]

In UPT, you are always 3 rides away from getting kicked out.

[Champ Kind]

If you are implying that it's easier to get through UPT than Nav school, then I have heard quite the opposite first-hand from former Navs/EWOs/WSOs that went to UPT.

While I am not suggesting that UPT is some kind of gut-wrenching crucible, RamRod put it best. Everyone knew that someone in the flight could be there on Monday, and out by Friday.

[Chuck17]

I think you may have mis-interpreted what you heard.

If you hook 3 rides in a row in UPT, you are sent to a performance review (88 Ride). Same thing happens if you hook a checkride. If you hook the review, or any subsequent checkride and you are sent to an elimination ride (89 Ride). Hook that and you are standing tall in front of the man. Its up to the WG/CC to re-instate you or send you packing.

You are in no way 'forced' through UPT. You can tell very quickly those who dont have the desire or drive to be there. They dont last. If you dont want to be there, it will show.

No one has a gun to your head saying 'you WILL pass this flight.'

Thats how UPT works. Someone with nav school experience educate us on how it works there...

Chuck

[ 21. July 2006, 11:14: Message edited by: Chuck17 ]

[sirjrod00]

Same is true for UNT, however, there have been exceptions and in my opinion, there are a few people that I know of that got too many chances that probably should have been kicked out of UNT when I was going through

[Guest Navtastic]

Nav school, Randolph style: If you hook a check ride in any phase, 88 ride. Hook the 88, you're washed back a class, and work with instructors in remedial training until that class comes up to the checkride you just busted. This try is your 89. If you fail your 89, you are out. The same process for checkrides works for tests.

[Guest Navtastic]

jrod is right. They tend(ed?) to push some very weak swimmers through the program.

[drewpey]

i think we were given the 5% washout rate when briefed here at randolph. Sounds pretty low, but thats just me.

[NUKE]

We were told about 12% here in Pcola. We have the same basic 3 ride deal, slightly different, but along the same lines.

[Skitzo]

In UPT a large part depends on your attitude and the attitude of the leadership. If you bust your rear end you will most likely get the extra help you need to make it. I have heard of those few cases where weak swimmers were reinstated but I saw VERY few in my 1.5 years at Columbus.

The leadership might reinstate you if they feel there have been mitigating circumstances. This is why if you are having problems outside of the flightline in your personal life etc you should be forthcoming. Getting reinstated when someone has been honest and upfront is a lot more likely than waiting until you are sitting in front of the wing king saying that your dog died and your wife/husband left you just because you think that expressing your difficulties might make you look weak.

[Dead Last]

I would have to agree with everyone so far... Personally Tweets kicked my ass, but I had a good attitude about it and the instructors in my flight helped me out by giving me remedial training, granted it made my life harder than it should have but atleast they took their extra time to help me out. Now when I got to Corpus Christi I had to redeem myself in the instrument phase (all of them) and make up for my poor performance in the 37. just my $.02

cheers

[Toasty]

I heard of a guy who failed the land survival test (ie two weeks after class started) twice and still managed to graduate...if that's any indication.

[Cooter]

Attitude is a huge part. I personally hooked 2 rides in UNT...my first 2 checks. I busted my ass all the time and when I hooked my second checkride I was being rolled back. I went straight to my Flt/CC and made my case to stay in my class and recheck the next day. He knew I was a hard worker and against the policy at the time kept me and I aced the check the next day. It's all about want and desire. When the horse kicks you off you gotta climb back up and ride her (STS) again. Live by FIDO...get the job done.

Cooter

[Guest KoolKat]

Originally posted by Barney:

on the flip side ive heard that you get like forty tries in UPT and you are basically forced through the program.

40 tries? Who the f_ck are you people talking to? The only thing you get 40 tries at is f_cking up your stand-up, and there are repurcussions for f_cking it up too bad after awhile.

Like everyone said, attitude is everything. I've even had IPs in tweets ask me, "SO..what did you thnk of that flight? (totally retorical) SO...do you want to take the checkride tommorrow, or do you want me to hook you on this one and get another ride in before the check? (Not retorical at all.)"

They were trying to help out. I don't think you should take that kinda help, but if they like you (read, don't hate you and want to you go wash out tommorrow) they'll offer extra rides, even if it is at the expense of a taco. Just be careful accepting that kind of "help," as said, too many tacos in a row can give you a really bad case of the shits.

BENDY

[ 22. July 2006, 07:24: Message edited by: Bender ]

[cragspider]

Originally posted by toastychicken:

I heard of a guy who failed the land survival test (ie two weeks after class started) twice and still managed to graduate...if that's any indication.

I know of the guy your talking about. He hasn't graduated yet, but will in 4 weeks. He also busted his ass the rest of the time. There are a few people who really should of been washed out a while back but he some how managed to stay in, and now is going to an aircraft that a nav is an important part.

[Guest jjarrell]

Bendy,

Are you saying it's better to hook a check-ride than accept an extra chance? Is taking second chances looked down upon by IPs or classmates?

Will you clarify for the clueless?

[Guest KoolKat]

No, man. That's not what I'm saying.

It's up to you in the end. If you just had a bad day, I'd say go home, have a beer and get a good night sleep. Take the check ride.

If it wasn't just a bad day and your not ready for the check ride, well...then maybe you want to take the extra ride & agree to hooking that ride.

However, you best not hook that "extra" ride. If you do, your staring that 3 hook in a row right in the face. NOT the presure you'd want, and that 3rd one would put you in the same exact situation that hooking the check ride would.

Bottom line, it's up to you. If you really need the ride, let'em hook you if s/he offers. I wouldn't agree to that, I think it's a bad idea.

Your classmates really couldn't give two shits about what you decide to do in that situation. Most of them have their own issues, some may end up in that situation themselves, they'll do what they think is the right thing to do.

Your IPs will also think nothing less of you if you decide to take the hook. The IP wouldn't offer to hook you on the ride before the check if he didn't think you should ake the extra ride. He may not even give you the choice...that's his call. If it's in the grey area of just having a bad day, he might offer an extra ride...that means your gonna hook this one.

Just understand the 3 hook, 88, 89 crap and do what you think you need to do.

I'm definitly not saying it's better to hook a check ride. Hooking check rides suck. I know from personal experience. Try to avoid doing that.

BENDY

[ 30. July 2006, 05:00: Message edited by: Bender ]

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Offering up a taco is bullshit.

The IP putting you up for the checkride is 100% responsible for evaluating your ability to pass your checkride. Yes or no. Simple. That is not a choice the student should make.

The student is only 100% responsible for his/her performance in the jet.

[Guest KoolKat]

Agreed.

BENDY

[Guest Wxpunk]

Toasty said:

I heard of a guy who failed the land survival test (ie two weeks after class started) twice and still managed to graduate...if that's any indication.

The guy you're talking about is in my class and what you say is true, however, you've been given the wrong spin.

What happened was he tanked two aerospace tests back to back and both by one question. What sucks is that it was for the same block and in the beginning of training. This put him in a solid dead last in class rank.

Since then he's failed no exams, EP quizzes and hasn't hooked any checkrides. He busted his ass and is now ranked in the middle of the class. He never rolled back either. This is a big deal considering our class started with 28 rolled in 8 and will only graduate 15. That's a 58% loss which only includes three Navy graduates.

Personally, I'd fly with this guy any day. He's a good guy and will make a great navigator.

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Wxpunk

[cragspider]

Originally posted by Wxpunk:

Toasty said:

The guy you're talking about is in my class and what you say is true, however, you've been given the wrong spin.

What happened was he tanked two aerospace tests back to back and both by one question. What sucks is that it was for the same block and in the beginning of training. This put him in a solid dead last in class rank.

Since then he's failed no exams, EP quizzes and hasn't hooked any checkrides. He busted his ass and is now ranked in the middle of the class. He never rolled back either. This is a big deal considering our class started with 28 rolled in 8 and will only graduate 15. That's a 58% loss which only includes three Navy graduates.

Personally, I'd fly with this guy any day. He's a good guy and will make a great navigator.

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Wxpunk

[Guest jjarrell]

Thanks to Bendy & Rainman for clearing that up for me.

[Guest J Barnes]

Originally posted by toastychicken:

I heard of a guy who failed the land survival test (ie two weeks after class started) twice and still managed to graduate...if that's any indication.

I actually got a hundred on the first test. I missed 4 on the next one and hooked it with an 84%. I did the same thing the next day. About 90% of the students here never fail a test. I was just an idiot. I never had test anxiety until I got here, I was a little nervous when 6-12 had 10 test busts out of 25 students on their very last test. 3 weeks later, our class didn't bust any. Weird.

Alls well that ends well, I'm getting my wings in a couple of weeks and I'm going to Germany. Can't complain.

[Guest J Barnes]

Originally posted by cragspider:

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Hey Wxpunk, even your info is wrong. I already straightened out toasty. He did bust a checkride. Just remember to have the right info for some of these newbies on here.

Thanks for airing dirty laundry, clown.

[Guest RESRAIDER]

ANYONE WHO ACTUALLY THINKS THAT UNT IS AS DIFFICULT OR MORE DIFFICULT THAN UPT SHOULD GET THIER HEAD CHECKED. AS A MATTER OF FACT UPT WASHOUTS KEEP UNT CLASSES STOCKED WITH STUDENTS.