Non Continuation for passed over Majs

[Catbox]

FY12 Lt Col board results announced today...any words (or rumors) as to what happend to the twice passed over dudes?

[BQZip01]

FY12 Lt Col board results announced today...any words (or rumors) as to what happend to the twice passed over dudes?

Rumors? I heard they dragged them out into the street and shot them for not wearing reflective belts...but that's just a rumor...

[Learjetter]

FY12 Lt Col board results announced today...any words (or rumors) as to what happend to the twice passed over dudes?

I can confirm that 1 of 1 APZ pilot in my unit was passed over for the second time and was offered continuation.

[Coasta]

What kills me about this whole thing is that the AF Has zero obligation to let anyone serve a day after their ASDC. There has never been any sort of guarantee that "we will you allow you to work 20 yrs" and you can go merrily on your way. There's no guaranteed bonus for the next FY. The problem w/ what happened is that the AF axed a hundred-something folk without even looking at who they were separating or laying-off for people that live in the real world. The unfortunate thing is that as flyers, we are not forced to ask ourselves where we fit in the organization. We all know exactly where we stand when it comes down to the mission, and that's all we want to do. Among ourselves, we know who can get the mission done better than the next, but the AF doesn't. That's why you see BS strata on OPRs and douchenozzles clammoring to plan the Christmas party. That's also what the airlines stratify by time in service. Do you really want a check ride that is so scrutinized that one mistake is the difference between 1 and 100? If so go back to UPT. Training is over and I'm tired of seeing pilots Fvck sh!t up because they are worried about their next assignment or passing their fitness test or if they are reflective enough (I know none of you are). There are no guarantees kids.

[CyberMaj]

FY12 Lt Col board results announced today...any words (or rumors) as to what happend to the twice passed over dudes?

I can confirm that 1 of 1 APZ pilot in my unit was passed over for the second time and was offered continuation.

This is somewhat here-say, but I was picked up for LtCol on this board and when I was talking to the SR's deputy, he said that is much easier passing on the good news to me and that the SR had the unenviable task telling a APZ Major that he did not get continuation.

Edited June 18, 2012 by CyberMaj

[Cap-10]

A buddy of mine from college was in the board: Intel career field, APZ, passed over, given continuance.

Cheers,

Cap-10

[KillEmAll]

Gents, I have read that the continuation happens directly after your APZ board and that the rules can change every year, but if you DO happen to get continued, does that mean you can from there on continue to the 20 year point or do you have to be re-continued every year until A) Retirement or B) Sanctuary?? I tried searching the thread(s) and can't find the answer. Can anybody help a brother with a quick answer?

[JPStryker]

Good to 20. In the past dudes were continued past 20, but I don't see that happening anymore.

[KillEmAll]

Thanks for the reply, I am asking because if I get passed over twice i'll be right at my 15 year point and hopefully continued or I guess i'd be out by 16...but if I don't get picked up IPZ i'll be looking to Palace Chase at that point because from what I read its difficult to get picked up by a Guard/Reserve unit if you are twice deferred...and therein lies the rub...it seems even more difficult to Palace Chase with more than 6 months of your ADSC left. Sounds like it'll be interesting times either way.

Edited August 23, 2012 by KillEmAll

[Chida]

I know someone from C-130s who recently palace chased before the second board results were released (albeit this was for a major's board). This person had about 2 years' ADSC left. So it seems to me that you may get special consideration as a once passed-over dude to palace chase before you're twice passed-over. Of course, if you palace chase instead of waiting to get passed over again, you miss out on separation pay. The reason this specific individual wanted to palace chase before getting passed over a second time is because of some recent (in the past 3 years) misconduct that would have been made it extremely unlikely to get a 2x passed-over waiver from the ANG/AFRES.

In your case, if you have no misconduct and you think (or talk with him and know) you can get your wing commander's endorsement I'd say getting a 2x passed-over waiver would not be difficult. I know of several that have done it and even some with misconduct in their records, although the misconduct was more than 5 years in the past.

[KillEmAll]

I am curious if an AD guy like myself would be able to use that same justification for PC approval basically stating that having been passed over twice makes you less competitive (or basically a pain in the arse) to a ANG/AFRES unit so in the best needs of everybody let me out of my ADSC. I dont have any misconduct or bad records so thats not the case, I am just weighing my options, i've considered getting out anyways, I am just trying to see if there is a smart way to do it early before I would potentially get the boot. Im not completely banking on not making 0-5...but im not dead set on making it either, like most of us on this forum i'd rather just keep flyin'.

[BitteEinBit]

Instead of making people guess if there is going to be continuation from year to year, the AF just needs to start being straight forward with bubbas and stop playing "I have a secret" with people's careers. All they are really doing is making dudes on the fence go the other way (STS). We already know promotion opportunities are going to be limited as the AF tries to trim overmanned year groups over the next few years, so just be up front with people. I'm no personnelist, but I can't imagine it being difficult to manage personnel when we have ADSCs...so it should be pretty predictable when people can separate. If you know you have too many pilots (or insert AFSC) in a given year group, give bubbas the opportunity to separate voluntarily if they've been passed over once to avoid a second one. Imagine the amount of separation pay the AF could save. (I may have to submit that to the IDEA program)

[Van1]

Thanks for the reply, I am asking because if I get passed over twice i'll be right at my 15 year point and hopefully continued or I guess i'd be out by 16...but if I don't get picked up IPZ i'll be looking to Palace Chase at that point because from what I read its difficult to get picked up by a Guard/Reserve unit if you are twice deferred...and therein lies the rub...it seems even more difficult to Palace Chase with more than 6 months of your ADSC left. Sounds like it'll be interesting times either way.

I'm making an assumption that you are a rated dude. Keep in mind that according to AFI 36-2005, Table 2.2, Note 9, rated dudes are ineligible for commisioned appointment in the Res of the AF if they failed to be selected for promotion for the first time. People get focused on the twice passed over bit found on Table 2.2, Item 25 and fail to read the notes. So you would need a waiver even if you are once passed over.

Having said that, getting a twice passed over waiver to go Guard last year seemed to be a non issue for me. I know a few guys that went AFRES last year after getting twice passed over without much issue. From what I gather, getting the waiver approved is not a big deal. Just a matter of finding a unit willing to insert your name on the waiver template and sending it up.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Van1

[KillEmAll]

Van, yes I am a rated dude and I didnt catch that Note 9, thanks for the info brotha, I wasn't totally sure how tough a waiver would be, some other posters made it seem like it was a big deal. I am sure that overall if a unit wants you anything within reason is possible in the form of waviers, etc. @ BitteEnBit, dude I really wish it was more transparent because this kind of stuff affects more than just numbers it affects people's lives especially if you have family/kids/school/etc. I think we're all big boys/girls and can take a "hey we dont need you anymore, expect to be let go in ### years" its the thrash of thinking there is a possibility you will stay in and then suddenly get the boot like those 157 other majors and now are worrying about selling a house, finding another job, relocating, new schools for kids, etc. I have a feeling for some of those guys that got the boot though like MWS IPs with lots of hours it was a blessing in disguise because now they are "free" to explore other options. The rest of us are watching you walk away free and clear with a $125K check from inside the prison walls haha!

[BitteEinBit]

I do know it is not the end of the world for twice passed over dudes. I know a few who were twice passed over, non-continued, got waiver to go reserves (they said it was relatively painless) got full time positions in the guard and reserves, AND were selected for promotion to O-5 on this year's reserve promotion board. I don't know how common that is, but it happened to two people I know. Even if the active duty can't keep you, there is life on the outside as a reservist both traditional and AGR. I think it would be a little tougher if you had some kind of referral OPR or Article 15, but It can happen.

The AF has been pretty quiet about this year's continuation....did they not kick a bunch of people out this year? Most everyone I know was continued this year unlike last year where no one I knew was continued.

Edited August 24, 2012 by BitteEinBit

[Catbox]

The AF has been pretty quiet about this year's continuation....did they not kick a bunch of people out this year? Most everyone I know was continued this year unlike last year where no one I knew was continued.

Everyone I know who was twice passed over was continued regardless of AFSC...my sample size isn't huge but does include the AFSCs (61, 62, 12, 11) that were not spared last year. I would think that if a whole bunch of people were non-continued like last year there would be way more grumblings here, AF Times, etc...

Having said all that, my ABZ board is next year and I'm battening down the hatches because I have no idea what to expect.

[KillEmAll]

Yeah I always thought in the past you would just be continued, but these days who knows. Just watch though in a couple years after the AF kicks out too many dudes or loses more officers because people are tired of this sh*t and choose to get out, then it'll probably be safe again to get continued. It sounds like as long as you dont get a DUI or kill anyone you're safe as long as we're not under a RIF like last year. For me personally i'll just have to decide if its worth staying in or getting out and taking a chance on a ANG/AFRES gig. It would be nice to stay in one place with the family though, deployments dont really bother me its moving around constantly, buying and selling a house every 3-4 yrs, etc.

[Van1]

I do know it is not the end of the world for twice passed over dudes. I know a few who were twice passed over, non-continued, got waiver to go reserves (they said it was relatively painless) got full time positions in the guard and reserves, AND were selected for promotion to O-5 on this year's reserve promotion board. I don't know how common that is, but it happened to two people I know. Even if the active duty can't keep you, there is life on the outside as a reservist both traditional and AGR. I think it would be a little tougher if you had some kind of referral OPR or Article 15, but It can happen.

The AF has been pretty quiet about this year's continuation....did they not kick a bunch of people out this year? Most everyone I know was continued this year unlike last year where no one I knew was continued.

Yep, I am one of the 157 who got booted last year and am now a 0-5 select in the Guard. Getting a twice passed over waiver was a non event. I know of 4 others from the 157 in the same boat who are now all 0-5 selects - 3 pilots who went reserves, 1 space guy who was in my Guard unit, who now landed an AGR gig as a DO of a space squadron. I'm a 12R nav in an AOC unit as a traditional Guardsman. Nice thing is I'm currently TDY on 120 day AD orders with a 1 year PCS that will start in Oct. When I'm done with that next year I will have just over 2 years left of AD time to acheive to get a full AD retirement. I hope to get that wrapped up within 5 years of bumming it. Nice thing is I will be able to retire as an 0-5 vice 0-4 had I been continued in the AD. I think that I'm playing the game well.

It is curious that there hasn't been much word on what happened with this years twice passed over dudes. Maybe its back to continuation as usual in the AD. Perhaps cutting 157 majors last year was all Big Blue needed to do to get the manning back on glide slope.

By the way, my unit would hire a few 11F, 11B, 12F, 12B types in a heartbeat. We are hurting for kinetic guys.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Van1

[Champ Kind]

I'm a 12R nav in an AOC unit as a traditional Guardsman. Nice thing is I'm currently TDY on 120 day AD orders with a 1 year PCS that will start in Oct. When I'm done with that next year I will have just over 2 years left of AD time to acheive to get a full AD retirement. I hope to get that wrapped up within 5 years of bumming it. Nice thing is I will be able to retire as an 0-5 vice 0-4 had I been continued in the AD. I think that I'm playing the game well. It is curious that there hasn't been much word on what happened with this years twice passed over dudes. Maybe its back to continuation as usual in the AD. Perhaps cutting 157 majors last year was all Big Blue needed to do to get the manning back on glide slope. By the way, my unit would hire a few 11F, 11B, 12F, 12B types in a heartbeat. We are hurting for kinetic guys.

Help me out here. If you "achieve" 20 years of total active duty time between the time you spent on AD and then the active duty time you pull while in the Guard/Reserves, when do you become a member of the Check of the Month Club? Still have to wait? Or do you start receiving money as soon as you retire?

[matmacwc]

Are you a part timer (DSG) or AGR? If AGR, the day after you retire at 20. Of DSG, it's all about points, it's like 7500 points for a full retirement, and of you can get there( I've seen it ), then you can get a check right away. If not, it will be a percentage of a full AD retirement at 60.

Edited August 25, 2012 by matmacwc

[Danny Noonin]

If you can get there( I've seen it ), then you can get a check right away. If not, it will be a percentage of a full AD retirement at 60.

For those considering the leap, anyone who thinks they can get out now and still get to an active duty retirement as a part time guardsman/reservist is smoking crack. It absolutely has happened in the past, but that was because of 1) the war(s) and 2) the fact that active duty staffers did not understand that OCO man days were paid for with active duty money, not ARC money. The world has changed and now that active duty has wised up, the budgets for man days have dried up. With Iraq "over" and Afghanistan "winding down" there will be no money or reason to pay anyone that many active duty days anymore. Certainly not the literally YEARS with of days it would take to get there from here.

[SuperWSO]

Yep, I am one of the 157 who got booted last year and am now a 0-5 select in the Guard.

Me too. I'm on the O-5 list and going through training to become an Intel Officer. I don't have an AGR yet, but I'm hoping to pick one up once I finish school.

By the way, my unit would hire a few 11F, 11B, 12F, 12B types in a heartbeat. We are hurting for kinetic guys.

Where are you located? I'm looking at all the options in case a full time position doesn't open up.

[Karl Hungus]

For those considering the leap, anyone who thinks they can get out now and still get to an active duty retirement as a part time guardsman/reservist is smoking crack. It absolutely has happened in the past, but that was because of 1) the war(s) and 2) the fact that active duty staffers did not understand that OCO man days were paid for with active duty money, not ARC money. The world has changed and now that active duty has wised up, the budgets for man days have dried up. With Iraq "over" and Afghanistan "winding down" there will be no money or reason to pay anyone that many active duty days anymore. Certainly not the literally YEARS with of days it would take to get there from here.

For those considering making AD a career, anyone who thinks that the AD retirement won't start disappearing is smoking crack. Hopefully it'll start slow, but it WILL be changing, and not for the better.

[Van1]

Are you a part timer (DSG) or AGR? If AGR, the day after you retire at 20. Of DSG, it's all about points, it's like 7500 points for a full retirement, and of you can get there( I've seen it ), then you can get a check right away. If not, it will be a percentage of a full AD retirement at 60.

7305 AD points is the magic number to be able to collect the AD retirement check right away. (365 x 20 = 7300 + 5 leap years)

For those considering the leap, anyone who thinks they can get out now and still get to an active duty retirement as a part time guardsman/reservist is smoking crack. It absolutely has happened in the past, but that was because of 1) the war(s) and 2) the fact that active duty staffers did not understand that OCO man days were paid for with active duty money, not ARC money. The world has changed and now that active duty has wised up, the budgets for man days have dried up. With Iraq "over" and Afghanistan "winding down" there will be no money or reason to pay anyone that many active duty days anymore. Certainly not the literally YEARS with of days it would take to get there from here.

Getting there from here depends on where your "here" is. Agree that it's probably not reasonable for an 8-10 year 0-3 jumping from AD to the ARC as a TR or ART to expect a full AD retirement before they turn 60. But for somebody departing the AD fix with 16 years it is entirely possible. Thanks to all the days I'm getting out of Big Blue for FY12 and FY13 I'll be a little over 6300 points by the end of FY13. I don't think that it will be too hard to get 1000 AD points over the next 11 years before I hit my MSD at age 54. I'd like to get them done while in my 40's. One statuatory tour at Guard Bureau and could be done. Would rather stay in the ops world though even if it takes longer.

Where are you located? I'm looking at all the options in case a full time position doesn't open up.

Unit is in Syracuse, NY. Probably no chance of AGR for the next 5-7 years (only 3 officer AGR postions) but there is at least one if not maybe 2 GS-12 positions open. TR is no problem. PM me if you want more details.

[scoobs]

For those considering making AD a career, anyone who thinks that the AD retirement won't start disappearing is smoking crack. Hopefully it'll start slow, but it WILL be changing, and not for the better.

All doom and gloom. Retirement won't be going anywhere especially if your on AD. Navy just started offering retirement at 15yrs for enlisted. That's a good step that will thin the herd.

Edited August 27, 2012 by scoobs