Non Continuation for passed over Majs

[BitteEinBit]

I'd be curious to see what 11/12/13XX AFSCs have overages, according to AFPC.

I bet AFPC doesn't even know...or care right now. Remember, TODAY it is all about end strength...they'll sort out AFSCs once the dust settles. I think the clue light will come on shortly after they run the final numbers for FY2012 after next years non-continuation board for passed over officers AND this year's RIF. Their overall endstrength numbers will be spot on, but they'll realize how short of rated officers they really are...and then wonder how it happened.

I really have to shake my head when I hear about AFPC telling deferred officers that they may not get continued due to manning, yet in the same conversation telling the same officer that Palace Chase may not get approved because his career field is critically manned. Part of me is saying there is no way that conversation actually happened...but then I look at how AFPC is (mis)managing this "drawdown" and I can see them saying just that. They really are that task focused on overall endstrength that they are completely ignoring the trainwreck getting ready to happen in front of them.

I REALLY want to give the Air Force the benefit of the doubt that they are anticipating what is getting ready to happen with the rated force. There is no way they are completely oblivious to what everyone in the industry is reporting. There HAS to be a reason they are ignoring it...AF rated requirements MUST be going down. Either way, I'm getting the popcorn maker ready...extra buttah!

Are there any A1 types or anyone "in the know" on this board that can shed some light on the rationale behind the AF thought process?

Are we still putting bets on the date of the rated recall/rated stop loss?

[Catbox]

I'd be curious to see what 11/12/13XX AFSCs have overages, according to AFPC.

I saw a briefing that my functional gave back in May (prior to all this non-continuation crap) and if I remember correctly there were significant overages in all 12X specialties in and around my year group (96). They were mitigating this against the massive shortfalls they had in the 11X positions (specifically 11F) and they would need the 12X for <50% manned staff positions. Maybe, just maybe these staff positions that we were all supposed to be aiming for just aren’t that important?

There is nothing about all this that makes sense to me, how can unit/staff function be less than 100%+ manned if the Air Force is over manning strength? How can they let guys with 15 years of experience go if certain staff billets are less than 50% manned? I could spend all day asking these questions and don’t think I would get an answer that makes sense to me.

[nsplayr]

I saw a briefing that my functional gave back in May (prior to all this non-continuation crap) and if I remember correctly there were significant overages in all 12X specialties in and around my year group (96).

Did that include 12S?

[Catbox]

Did that include 12S?

I've been looking through my .pst to find that breif but can't seem to find it. I dont remember exactly but I think all 12X were heavy for year groups in the late 90s. However 12S were one of the few AFSCs that were offered continuation this year.

edit: check out https://gum-crm.csd.disa.mil/app/home when you log in do a search for "officer sustainment matrix" This shows exactly the opposite of what I claimed but I very specifically remember a line graph that showed navs being heavy.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Catbox

[Guest]

Voluntary Retired Rated Officer Recall Program

I've got a good friend who had an empty nest and took this opportunity to take mil leave from the A-word to live large in Germany doing this for a couple years.

He spends 11 months a year acclimatizing for Oktoberfest...and doing some other staff stuff, too. Probably. For sure the Oktoberfest part.

[HuggyU2]

... the A-word ...

I didn't know you flew light gray Eagles.

[matmacwc]

I didn't know you flew light gray Eagles.

HA!

[ThreeHoler]

What the man has to say about promotion boards. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing...just found this in my inbox today:

Officials offer peek into officer promotion boards

by Jon Hanson

Air Force Personnel, Services and Manpower Public Affairs

RANDOLPH AIR FORCE BASE, Texas – Air Force officials offer a peek into the officer promotion board process to explain how they are conducted.

“The promotion system is clear-cut and extremely fair,” said Col. Ramona Dolson, chief of the Air Force Selection Board Secretariat. “The Air Force has done a great job in making the promotion process transparent, fair and equitable.”

Every board begins the same way with extensive Secretary of the Air Force approved training covering all aspects of the board process. This includes going over the board authority and organization, whole person concept, scoring scale, selection record content, communication guidelines and other statutorily and policy driven board activities.

The makeup of the board is limited to colonels and above, ensuring members are senior to the eligible officers. It will include a reserve officer if a reservist is eligible. Air Force policy dictates board membership reflects the eligible population of officers in term of command of assignment, career area, aeronautical rating, race, ethnicity and gender.

After the training, the board president reads the SECAF’s memorandum of instructions and then the board secretariat administers the oath that binds the members to perform the duties imposed upon them without prejudice or partiality. The MOI outlines the secretary’s specific instructions for each board.

The board president, who is always a general officer, is assisted by the recorders of the selection board secretariat. The recorders are certified by the SECAF to assist board presidents in ensuring boards are conducted in accordance with established laws, directives and secretarial instructions.

The board then participates in a multi-faceted trial run exercise. The exercise allows members to see the range of quality they will see in the live records, the colonel said. It exposes them with some situations they might come across as they assess the records. It also helps each member to establish his or her own scoring standard.

After the exercise, secretariat officials facilitate a debriefing for board members to collectively discuss Air Force considerations that may assist them while scoring the records. An example of this could be discussing how getting a letter of reprimand as a young lieutenant might be viewed differently than a major getting one later in his or her career, said Lt. Col. Rose Jourdan, chief of operations at the Air Force Selection Board Secretariat.

Before the board members can score their first live record, they must acknowledge they understand the process and their role in the process, and are comfortable with the scoring scale and content of the selection records, she said.

Once the last record is scored, the board establishes a preliminary order of merit. Records that are close to the promotion quota cutline fall into the “gray zone,” Jourdan said. The board then conducts a series of quality reviews to resolve that gray zone. Afterward, they rescore all those records to establish the final order of merit to assign the remaining available quota.

At this point, the board has a preliminary list they must verify are “fully qualified” in accordance with Title 10, U.S.C., Section 616. This step allows the board to acknowledge that all members recommended are not only the best qualified, but are also fully qualified for promotion.

Once they have verified those on the list are the best, fully qualified officers they will complete other remaining board actions, if necessary, such as selective continuation. The board will then certify it complied with the SECAF’s instructions and adjourn.

The boards typically run about two weeks, but may run longer to ensure board members have enough time to ensure each officer’s record is given fair and equitable consideration.

Are boards fair?

Board members have specific do’s and don’ts they have to follow. These include what board members can and cannot reveal about board procedures and processes. At no time are board members, recorders and administrative assistants ever allowed to reveal board proceedings.

The board is briefed that they are not allowed to engage freely in conversations with other board members in regard to any particular officer or record. Additionally, board members cannot introduce or discuss information not found in an officer’s record.

“The Air Force has pledged that officers will be made aware of all information in their records that will be presented to the board,” Dolson said. “If board members were permitted to gather information on the side or introduce information not in the record, the Air Force would violate that promise. To ensure this doesn’t happen, a selection board secretariat recorder must be present for all board room discussions.”

Preparing for the board

Lieutenant colonels and below should review their records located at the Air Force Personnel Center. These officers can request copies of their records over the phone, via e-mail, or in person (a permissive TDY to Randolph AFB). Officers can also call 210-565-2693 or DSN 665-2693 to speak to selection records staff.

Officials encourage officers to not wait until the last minute to request a copy of the selection record as it may take up to 45 days to process the request. If they are checking on a single document, there’s no need for a full records request; they can contact customer support direct at 210-565-2998 or DSN 665-2998.

A telephonic review of records can be done at any time. Every attempt should be made to accomplish a records review or request the appropriate copies well before the board meets.

“By being proactive and practicing due diligence, promotion eligibles can ensure a complete and accurate record is seen by the board,” Jourdan said.

Colonels should contact the Air Force Colonels Matters Office, AF/DPO, at 703-571-3423 or DSN 671-3423.

For more information on the board process refer to AFI36-2501, Officer Promotions and Selective Continuation.

[SuperWSO]

I know there has been some discussion on the waiver process for going to the Guard and Reserves. I got an email today with the "New for 2011" waiver process for the Air National Guard. It looks a little different from what I saw for the Reserves.

PM me if you want any contact info for the office that sent the message.

-----

Subject: Accessing Twice Deferred AD AF Officers into the ANG

Good Morning,

The Air National Guard is currently below officer end strength and has the

opportunity to increase it significantly. The Air Force is separating

officers who have been twice deferred for promotion (passed over for

promotion). The ANG accepts accession waivers for twice deferred Active

Duty Air Force officers, IAW AFI 36-2005, Table 2.2., Item 25 and ANGI

36-2005, Chapter 11 and Attachment 9.

Following is information on the authority to approve these waivers, the

processing documents required, and other information:

NGB/A1PO is the approval authority.

The criteria for approval of these waivers is based on the officer's

performance over the last 5 years. As long as the officer's performance is

good (as documented in the OPRs), and the officer meets all other

requirements for accession in the ANG, then the waiver will be approved to

allow the officer's appointment in the ANG.

The documentation needed for the waiver is:

1. Commander's memorandum requesting waiver

2. Copies of the officer's last five (5) OPRs

3. State headquarters endorsement

The waiver can be submitted as part of the officer's appointment

application; there is no need to do a separate waiver. If there is concern

that the waiver will not be approved, the unit may submit the waiver request

first.

Once appointed into the ANG, these officers are eligible for position

vacancy promotion, IAW ANGI 36-2504, paragraph 3.3.14. The same documents

that were required for the accession waiver are required for a promotion

waiver.

If the officer is eligible for Interim Appointment IAW ANGI 36-2005,

Paragraph 5.5.1, the MPMO may approve the interim appointment and the Oath

of Office executed IAW ANGI 36-2005, Paragraph 5.2. Following execution of

the Oath of Office, all documents required for appointment IAW ANGI 36-2005,

Chapter 5, the NGB Form 337 and AF IMT 133 must be sent to NGB/A1POP as soon

as possible for Federal recognition to be extended.

Please pass this information to your commanders, unit members, and others

who may speak with officers about the Air National Guard.

Thank you.

XXXXXX, MSgt, USAF

Officer Recruiting NCO, NGB/RS

Edited August 23, 2011 by SuperWSO

[Van1]

I know there has been some discussion on the waiver process for going to the Guard and Reserves. I got an email today with the "New for 2011" waiver process for the Air National Guard. It looks a little different from what I saw for the Reserves.

PM me if you want any contact info for the office that sent the message.

-----

Subject: Accessing Twice Deferred AD AF Officers into the ANG

Good Morning,

The Air National Guard is currently below officer end strength and has the

opportunity to increase it significantly. The Air Force is separating

officers who have been twice deferred for promotion (passed over for

promotion). The ANG accepts accession waivers for twice deferred Active

Duty Air Force officers, IAW AFI 36-2005, Table 2.2., Item 25 and ANGI

36-2005, Chapter 11 and Attachment 9.

Following is information on the authority to approve these waivers, the

processing documents required, and other information:

NGB/A1PO is the approval authority.

The criteria for approval of these waivers is based on the officer's

performance over the last 5 years. As long as the officer's performance is

good (as documented in the OPRs), and the officer meets all other

requirements for accession in the ANG, then the waiver will be approved to

allow the officer's appointment in the ANG.

The documentation needed for the waiver is:

1. Commander's memorandum requesting waiver

2. Copies of the officer's last five (5) OPRs

3. State headquarters endorsement

The waiver can be submitted as part of the officer's appointment

application; there is no need to do a separate waiver. If there is concern

that the waiver will not be approved, the unit may submit the waiver request

first.

Once appointed into the ANG, these officers are eligible for position

vacancy promotion, IAW ANGI 36-2504, paragraph 3.3.14. The same documents

that were required for the accession waiver are required for a promotion

waiver.

If the officer is eligible for Interim Appointment IAW ANGI 36-2005,

Paragraph 5.5.1, the MPMO may approve the interim appointment and the Oath

of Office executed IAW ANGI 36-2005, Paragraph 5.2. Following execution of

the Oath of Office, all documents required for appointment IAW ANGI 36-2005,

Chapter 5, the NGB Form 337 and AF IMT 133 must be sent to NGB/A1POP as soon

as possible for Federal recognition to be extended.

Please pass this information to your commanders, unit members, and others

who may speak with officers about the Air National Guard.

Thank you.

XXXXXX, MSgt, USAF

Officer Recruiting NCO, NGB/RS

Thanks. Looks like similar info that I got from MSgt M a few weeks back but this is much more detailed.

[Guest]

I didn't know you flew light gray Eagles.

I haven't. I like women.

It has long been argued whether that started in Barnyard or the Trough. Regardless of the origin, I can tell you it will cost you $5 in either location.

The Barnyard argument is A-word avoidance is the sole basis of the evolution/innovation of digital bullseye comm since they did not want to say northwest, southwest or eastern on the radio or in the brief/debrief. That's a noble, and predictably , argument.

Ol Patch can weigh in if he wants.

[matmacwc]

I heard it happened at Kadena, what do I know, I haven't been doing this as long as Rainman.

[busdriver]

...A-word avoidance is the sole basis of the evolution/innovation of digital bullseye comm since they did not want to say northwest, southwest or eastern on the radio or in the brief/debrief.

Slow helo guy is confused, I always thought the original bullseye was Hanoi. Assuming you mean actually giving a no shit bearing and range versus northwest of the bullseye?

[Guest]

Slow helo guy is confused, I always thought the original bullseye was Hanoi. Assuming you mean actually giving a no shit bearing and range versus northwest of the bullseye?

yes

[busdriver]

yes

Roger. Sounds a bit fishy to me. "In the effort to avoid saying northwest, we've actually found a more accurate way to concisely rely the location of a threat."

[makinbacon]

Highlights from 5 Sep 11 AF Times interview with CSAF

*******************

On the subject of involuntary separations (attached)

Q: That includes that noncontinuation for twice-passed-over majors. Is this something that majors this year can expect?

A. That was part of the communications which I personally made to the force back in December of last year. Admittedly, it probably was not as crystal clear as perhaps it might as been, but we did alert the force to the fact that continuation to 20 years for those twice deferred might be in jeopardy…

Q: Is that going to happen again this year, just to be clear?

A: The idea here is that we will not have to do any of this again, provided we get the officer strength down. Right now we are 1,500 over. When we get that down to 10 percent of that or less, we will be OK.

Q: Are you on track to do that?

A: Yeah. In fact, it is interesting that we have actually had more voluntary separations than we have anticipated in some disciplines. That has helped…

*******************

Take note. If you read the rest of the attached you will see he is aggressively cutting numbers this year so that us 97 and beyond year groups don’t have to be concerned about our future (as much). I went to public school but if you take 10% of 1500 then he will be trying to aggressively cut 1350 officers. Until then, look for your nearest guard or reserve recruiter if you want to keep your 20 yr retirement option open.

5 Sep 11 AF Times Partial CSAF Interview.pdf

[Catbox]

Take note. If you read the rest of the attached you will see he is aggressively cutting numbers this year so that us 97 and beyond year groups don’t have to be concerned about our future (as much). I went to public school but if you take 10% of 1500 then he will be trying to aggressively cut 1350 officers. Until then, look for your nearest guard or reserve recruiter if you want to keep your 20 yr retirement option open.

So in essence they could have used a scalpel to trim the dead weight from the 157 instead of the cleaver and let those who wanted to punch get out. They still could have been well on their way working toward 1500 cuts to get within the 10% satisfactory window.

Instead they chose to screw over guys who have deployed, sacrificed and been put through the ringer.

I truly want to believe the leadership has biggest picture and the best interests of the country and individuals at heart but it gets harder and harder to swallow that pill.

[brickhistory]

I truly want to believe the leadership has biggest picture and the best interests of the country and individuals at heart but it gets harder and harder to swallow that pill.

Define "leadership."

If you mean POTUS, then it's re-election regardless of the individual in office (or his party keeping the office if in 2d term). The odd national interest does come into play.

If you mean SECDEF, then it's all about budget and/or ego as far as "best interests."

If you mean SECAF and/or CSAF, see SECDEF.

If you mean MAJCOM, see CSAF.

If you mean WG/CC, it's often, but not always, about the next step up the ladder.

If you mean SQ/CC, see WG/CC.

If you mean the bro on the Air Staff and/or AFPC, he/she is simply trying to survive a very ugly assignment with long hours filled with pain and doing whatever he/she can to make the bad man go away until he can get back out to the field where usually, not always, the tempo to SQ/CC is picked up.

Save yourself some time and heartburn; get cynical now.

Edited September 1, 2011 by brickhistory

[Bergman]

Highlights from 5 Sep 11 AF Times interview with CSAF

*******************

Q: Are you on track to do that?

A: Yeah. In fact, it is interesting that we have actually had more voluntary separations than we have anticipated in some disciplines. That has helped…

*******************

Hmmm...I wonder if they noticed that they were all 11X and 12X AFSCs?! The clue bird is tapping these guys on the shoulder right now, but they aren't seeing it. We'll be 1500 officers short within 2 years...and the talking heads will act surprised and claim, "we had no idea that so many aircrew were going to leave!"

[Catbox]

Save yourself some time and heartburn; get cynical now.

Brother...the separation paperwork is at AFPC. I'm years past cynical, time to live off the wife's hard work for a while.

[SuperWSO]

Highlights from 5 Sep 11 AF Times interview with CSAF

*******************

On the subject of involuntary separations (attached)

Q: That includes that noncontinuation for twice-passed-over majors. Is this something that majors this year can expect?

A. That was part of the communications which I personally made to the force back in December of last year. Admittedly, it probably was not as crystal clear as perhaps it might as been, but we did alert the force to the fact that continuation to 20 years for those twice deferred might be in jeopardy…

Q: Is that going to happen again this year, just to be clear?

A: The idea here is that we will not have to do any of this again, provided we get the officer strength down. Right now we are 1,500 over. When we get that down to 10 percent of that or less, we will be OK.

*******************

Makin, thanks for saving me the price of the magazine. I highlighted a slightly different part.

I love how he claims he "communicated" this possibility last year. When asked point blank if it is going to happen again, he doesn't answer.

THAT is why people feel they were blind sided - chicken shit leadership who can't answer a yes/no question without presenting a math problem. Unless 1300+ officers separate voluntarily (and the AF has to allow them once they request to separate, unlike the last VSP) they will do it again. He just won't say it.

[Guest]

Save yourself some time and heartburn; get cynical now.

C'mon.

Do your job well and vote with your feet (to stay or go) but don't be cynical. That won't help you or anyone around you.

[Van1]

Makin, thanks for saving me the price of the magazine. I highlighted a slightly different part.

I love how he claims he "communicated" this possibility last year. When asked point blank if it is going to happen again, he doesn't answer.

THAT is why people feel they were blind sided - chicken shit leadership who can't answer a yes/no question without presenting a math problem. Unless 1300+ officers separate voluntarily (and the AF has to allow them once they request to separate, unlike the last VSP) they will do it again. He just won't say it.

The CSAF and SECAF are a couple of turds. Nice how the CSAF dances around the question. What a wimp. He makes it seem as if now that they trimmed 157 officers from the force via invol seps, the rest will fall into place naturally to get to 1500 via some kind of magic.

Edited September 2, 2011 by Van1

[Rusty Pipes]

The CSAF and SECAF are a couple of turds. Nice how the CSAF dances around the question. What a wimp. He makes it seem as if now that they trimmed 157 officers from the force via invol seps, the rest will fall into place naturally to get to 1500 via some kind of magic.

The "magic" will be all of those folks who were duped into applying for VSP and were then turned down as well as all the guys coming up on their UPT ADSCs that have seen good dudes get their walking papers at 15 yrs. Remember that the SECAF was surprised at how many rated officers applied for VSP? It will be interesting to see what happens in the next year or so as far as airline hiring goes. If the talk of grand hiring actually happens then you'll see Big Blue start to scramble by doing stupid stuff like offering bonuses to all the pilots they just non-vol'd to staff!!! I know everyone gives AFPC a bunch of shit, but I know some really good dudes down there at the lower level that will be the ones having to deal with picking up the pieces because of the shit sandwich passed down from the top. Only time will tell, but I know lots of guys who are keeping All ATP's pretty busy these days and asking to be extended on their assignments so they don't pick up a PCS ADSC. The next year is going to be very interesting!

[Guest]

If the talk of grand hiring actually happens then you'll see Big Blue start to scramble by doing stupid stuff like offering bonuses to all the pilots they just non-vol'd to staff!!!

No problem. Familiar territory for Big Blue, they went there and did exactly that in the early '90s.