muslim military pilot?

[haitham]

hey everyone,

this question is aimed towards those are/were involved UPT boards, but I'd appreciate the general input too.

I have been, for some years preparing to apply for a UPT slot, I am 23, and I graduate in December, with a business degree from Embry-Riddle. I have a ton of work experience, for my age anyway. I can't take AFOQT until November unfortunately, so I won't have that number until then, but I am doing pretty good in the practice test.

I will most likely apply to the ANG, and possibly the AF Reserve.

I am Muslim. I am not naive. I know the mood is generally against Muslims and anything to do with them, thanks to the bastards in the ME and traitors in our own country here. in case you are wondering, I am genuinely a patriotic person. I am very involved in politics. in fact, I am on a first name basis with a number of state reps and senators (generally republican). I am also very involved with the Civil Air Patrol (deputy commander of a 120+ member squadron).

I really do want to serve, and I love aviation. I am NOT doing this for Airline hours, as I have no interest in an airline pilot career. I want to do this because I genuinely love this country, its military, and flying.

my question is: will my religion effect my chances of being selected for UPT?

I know the official answer is no. is that also the unofficial answer?

I would appreciate blunt honesty above everything else.

Thanks!

Edited June 16, 2011 by hmel

[ForgotPassword]

my question is: will my religion effect my chances of being selected for UPT?

Nope.

[haitham]

Nope.

Thx for the reply.

[Toro]

The Air Force can preach tolerance and acceptance all it wants, but making guys take lessons on the computer just won't do it. I lived in Saudi for a year, so I'm pretty well versed in Islam and scoff at the ignorance most people cast towards Muslims. That being said, my suggestion would be that you don't broadcast your religion to anybody who you don't know well. Ignorance remains strong and you don't want to make yourself a target.

[pawnman]

hey everyone,

this question is aimed towards those are/were involved UPT boards, but I'd appreciate the general input too.

I have been, for some years preparing to apply for a UPT slot, I am 23, and I graduate in December, with a business degree from Embry-Riddle. I have a ton of work experience, for my age anyway. I can't take AFOQT until November unfortunately, so I won't have that number until then, but I am doing pretty good in the practice test.

I will most likely apply to the ANG, and possibly the AF Reserve.

I am Muslim. I am not naive. I know the mood is generally against Muslims and anything to do with them, thanks to the bastards in the ME and traitors in our own country here. in case you are wondering, I am genuinely a patriotic person. I am very involved in politics. in fact, I am on a first name basis with a number of state reps and senators (generally republican). I am also very involved with the Civil Air Patrol (deputy commander of a 120+ member squadron).

I really do want to serve, and I love aviation. I am NOT doing this for Airline hours, as I have no interest in an airline pilot career. I want to do this because I genuinely love this country, its military, and flying.

my question is: will my religion effect my chances of being selected for UPT?

I know the official answer is no. is that also the unofficial answer?

I would appreciate blunt honesty above everything else.

Thanks!

As far as I know, there isn't a check box for "religion" on the application for OTS.

You may have other challenges unrelated to your religion...OTS slots have become tough to get in the past two years or so.

[M2]

Actually, "will my religion effect my chances of being selected for UPT?" is something you'll have to ask yourself!

First, how devout are you? Do you perform Ṣalāt five times a day? What about Sawm? Would you be considered exempt because you are a "soldier?" What about the increased study and contemplation during the last ten nights of Ramadan? Will you perform a hajj during your service?

I am far from an expert on Islam, but I do know it has rituals and practices as most religions do. While the service does its best to allow for any and all practices of faith, there are obvious limitations as I am sure you can imagine.

That said, you won't be the first Muslim pilot in the USAF.

It's all a matter of priorities, abilities and luck!

Cheers! M2

[haitham]

Thank you all for the replies. I really appreciate it. that's kind of details i was looking for.

The Air Force can preach tolerance and acceptance all it wants, but making guys take lessons on the computer just won't do it. I lived in Saudi for a year, so I'm pretty well versed in Islam and scoff at the ignorance most people cast towards Muslims. That being said, my suggestion would be that you don't broadcast your religion to anybody who you don't know well. Ignorance remains strong and you don't want to make yourself a target.

you are right. it isn't computers that make the difference, its actions. I hope my actions could make the difference. I won't be broadcasting my belief, but I don't think I'd want to hide or lie about it, when asked.

Sorry you had to live is Saudi, I wouldn't want to live there :) I heard so many horror stories out of that country.

As far as I know, there isn't a check box for "religion" on the application for OTS.

You may have other challenges unrelated to your religion...OTS slots have become tough to get in the past two years or so.

tell me about it. I'm hoping and praying that one unit bites and gives me an interview. we'll just have to wait and see.

I've been involved with CAP for sometime, so I could at least meet people who are current or former AF, especially pilots. I've met a couple of them, and I'm hoping they could be helpful to me in this process.

Actually, "will my religion effect my chances of being selected for UPT?" is something you'll have to ask yourself!

First, how devout are you? Do you perform Ṣalāt five times a day? What about Sawm? Would you be considered exempt because you are a "soldier?" What about the increased study and contemplation during the last ten nights of Ramadan? Will you perform a hajj during your service?

I am far from an expert on Islam, but I do know it has rituals and practices as most religions do. While the service does its best to allow for any and all practices of faith, there are obvious limitations as I am sure you can imagine.

That said, you won't be the first Muslim pilot in the USAF.

It's all a matter of priorities, abilities and luck!

Cheers! M2

M2, that's a really good question. my dad, who is an ex military officer, ironically in an anti-aircraft unit, taught me from a young age that religion is flexible. its not supposed to be an obstruction to your daily life. so for example, Salat (prayer), is something i may not be able to do on time in a combat environment, because I just won't be able to. and that's fine. i can delay or bunch up if i am not able to.

for sawm (fasting the day) it isn't that hard, nonetheless, you are able t delay if you are sick, traveling, in combat, or if it causes hardship. I've delayed my fasting several times before when i was traveling or sick, so it is not a big issue.

same thing with the last ten nights and all the other issues. if i was in an office environment, nothing would change, if i was on the flight-line or in a combat zone, i can delay as needed.

in any case, i can make my religion work around me with no issue. abilities and luck is the big challenge :)

lets hope that i am in upt sometime the next couple of years.

[M2]

in any case, i can make my religion work around me with no issue. abilities and luck is the big challenge :)

Sounds like you get it...

lets hope that i am in upt sometime the next couple of years.

Best of luck to ya, but always have a back-up plan!

Cheers! M2

[Masshole]

\

M2, that's a really good question. my dad, who is an ex military officer, ironically in an anti-aircraft unit, taught me from a young age that religion is flexible. its not supposed to be an obstruction to your daily life. so for example, Salat (prayer), is something i may not be able to do on time in a combat environment, because I just won't be able to. and that's fine. i can delay or bunch up if i am not able to.

for sawm (fasting the day) it isn't that hard, nonetheless, you are able t delay if you are sick, traveling, in combat, or if it causes hardship. I've delayed my fasting several times before when i was traveling or sick, so it is not a big issue.

same thing with the last ten nights and all the other issues. if i was in an office environment, nothing would change, if i was on the flight-line or in a combat zone, i can delay as needed.

in any case, i can make my religion work around me with no issue. abilities and luck is the big challenge :)

lets hope that i am in upt sometime the next couple of years.

This is excellent advice. Your faith is what you make of it and you can still be fully committed to Islam without having it interfere with your daily life in the service. I am sorry that I cannot address the perspective of the UPT selection boards, but I come from a similar background and have not had any adversity in ROTC. I think most people are open and do not harbor any ill sentiment towards Muslims, ergo your faith/background should not be a deterrent to your future. You may run into some intolerant people, but they should not negatively affect you. It might actually fuel you as it is always better to stick your success in their faces (so to speak).

[Guest Stayeagle]

Above all else, An American, F-15 pilot 1st Lt. Ali Jivanjee

https://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1977951/posts

[matmacwc]

Which military was your dad in? That could cause problems if it's certain other countries.

[haitham]

Best of luck to ya, but always have a back-up plan!

Cheers! M2

Thanks. the whole reason I'm doing AFR/ANG is so life goes on, if I don't make it. that way I'm not totally reliant on getting a slot.

This is excellent advice. Your faith is what you make of it and you can still be fully committed to Islam without having it interfere with your daily life in the service. I am sorry that I cannot address the perspective of the UPT selection boards, but I come from a similar background and have not had any adversity in ROTC. I think most people are open and do not harbor any ill sentiment towards Muslims, ergo your faith/background should not be a deterrent to your future. You may run into some intolerant people, but they should not negatively affect you. It might actually fuel you as it is always better to stick your success in their faces (so to speak).

Thanks. its good to hear from someone in a similar background. there is always ignorant people anywhere, but my experience with everyone has been super positive. I am part of an organization called the "Civil Air Patrol", which is an air force organization. filled with former and current AF officers and enlistees, many of whom were fighter pilots. my experience with them was amazing, and I've grown so much in CAP with their support and mentoring. even my little sister, who became a cadet with the squadron, and wears a headscarf, was accepted very well, not for political correctness or anything, but because she was a a good member and a fast runner.

good point, regrading how my faith pushing me for the better. not to be cheesy, but I guess its like how maverick's reputation pushed him to be better! gotta add a TOPGUN reference :)

Exactly right. Throughout history, people have custom tailored their religion to fit their ideologies, agendas, biases and conveniences of daily life. Religion is flexible. Not only can you pick and choose the ways you express your faith, you can also select the religious conventions and concepts that you find agreeable with the life you'd like to live. Do what makes you happy, and mold your religion to reconcile it.

yup, that's how it is. what sucks is ppl that do that for the worse, like Taliban. they change the religion to fit their extreme ideology.

Above all else, An American, F-15 pilot 1st Lt. Ali Jivanjee

https://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1977951/posts

Amazing Story. gives me confidence. I wonder why he signed his emails the way he did. I guess fighter pilots are supposed to casue trouble for every bdoy else - see maverick :)

Which military was your dad in? That could cause problems if it's certain other countries.

He was in the Tunisian Military.

[M2]

good point, regrading how my faith pushing me for the better. not to be cheesy, but I guess its like how maverick's reputation pushed him to be better! gotta add a TOPGUN reference :)

Amazing Story. gives me confidence. I wonder why he signed his emails the way he did. I guess fighter pilots are supposed to casue trouble for every bdoy else - see maverick :)

Dude, enough of the Top Gun references already!

I am part of an organization called the "Civil Air Patrol", which is an air force organization. filled with former and current AF officers and enlistees, many of whom were fighter pilots. my experience with them was amazing, and I've grown so much in CAP with their support and mentoring.

You can skip the CAP stuff as well. Most of us are pretty familiar with that organization...

[haitham]

Dude, enough of the Top Gun references already!

You can skip the CAP stuff as well. Most of us are pretty familiar with that organization...

Sorry I had just finished watching a rerun of topgun, so that was on my mind. anyway, i'll skip CAP in the future. im realtively new to this forum, so i am not too sure what ppl are familiar with!