New Powered Flight Program Aircraft at USAFA

[flynhigh]

Gotta put in the shameless plug...

Air Force Times article

AIR FORCE ACADEMY, Colo. — The Air Force Academy is getting 25 new trainer aircraft for a total of $6.1 million.

The Air Force Air Education and Training Command announced that the school will get the first two T-53A aircraft on Monday. The remaining 23 will be delivered by May 2012.

The Air Force says the T-53A is manufactured by Cirrus Aircraft and is based on the Cirrus 20, a single-engine propeller plane. The Cirrus website says the civilian model has a base price of $290,000.

The cost of the academy’s trainers is $244,000 each.

The academy says the new trainer replaces the T-52A manufactured by Diamond Aircraft. The academy currently leases 20 T-52As.

The school says officials believe purchasing the new planes instead of leasing them was in the best interest of the Air Force.

Edited June 17, 2011 by flynhigh

[contraildash]

Do those come standard with the 'chute? Never flown one, but heard they are nice planes.

[flynhigh]

Do those come standard with the 'chute? Never flown one, but heard they are nice planes.

Yup. Chute is not optional. Standard equipment. Actually required based on the certification basis for the airplane. It is a great flying airplane. Control forces are well harmonized. Now had they ponied up a few extra bucks, they could've had 50% more hp! (read SR22) But, I'm not complaining that the gov was "frugal" with the purchase.

[i.o.w.a]

Who do you have to know to get a job as an IP?

[08Dawg]

What happens to all those "leased" DA-40s? And honestly, why do you need to replace those? I'm sure a DA-40 is cheaper than a Cirrus. For that matter, why do you need a -40 instead of a -20?

[GovernmentMan]

For that matter, why do you need a -40 instead of a -20?

Could be the same reason that there are more R44s in the Springs than there are R22s. The DA-20 works well enough for IFS, but I wouldn't hold high hopes for its performance at USAFA. KAFF is a couple thousand feet higher than KPUB, and in the summer the density altitude sometimes goes OVER 9000 (true story). Just speculating, though.

[ThreeHoler]

Hm, I seem to recall some sort of training aircraft the Academy used to have that worked just fine in Texas...but started falling out of the sky in Colorado.

But I could never think of a reason to get an IO-360 over IO-240...

[Dupe]

My guess is that the lease on the DA-20s is up for renewal, and the AF realized the dumbness of leased aircraft for full-time flight ops.

[ThreeHoler]

What happens to all those "leased" DA-40s? And honestly, why do you need to replace those? I'm sure a DA-40 is cheaper than a Cirrus. For that matter, why do you need a -40 instead of a -20?

The DA-40 is nearly $100k more than the price the Academy just paid for each SR20.

[nunya]

The DA-20 works well enough for IFS, but I wouldn't hold high hopes for its performance at USAFA. KAFF is a couple thousand feet higher than KPUB, and in the summer the density altitude sometimes goes OVER 9000 (true story). Just speculating, though.

DA at AFF gets over 10K' many days. And the DA-20 worked just fine there for IFT.

[ThreeHoler]

DA at AFF gets over 10K' many days. And the DA-20 worked just fine there for IFT.

Those were DA-40s.

[nunya]

Those were DA-40s.

Well damn. I better correct my logbook then, because I logged all those IFT flights as DA-20s.

Edited June 18, 2011 by nunya

[ThreeHoler]

Oh, hey, look, I too can pull pictures off the Internet. They just replaced DA-40s...which were replacements for the DA-20s.

I flew multiple aircraft while I was at the Zoo. I'd have to go back and look to be sure, but I flew with engines that ranged from 125hp to 210hp. Having seen the differences in performance first hand, to include mountain flying, a 125hp engine is smart for the area.

[nunya]

Wow. You really are as obnoxious as you seemed in the other threads. The DA-20s (NOT DA-40s as you annoyingly tried to correct me) worked fine for IFT. Sure, more HP is better, but that doesn't mean it was worth the expense. If they were really worried about high altitude performance, they would have bought turbos.

Edited June 18, 2011 by nunya

[StoleIt]

Why does the Zoo need airplanes anyway?

Does academy get to bypass IFS?

[i.o.w.a]

Academy flight screening (AFS) did bypass Initial Flight Screening (IFS) back in '06-'07 time frame and before. I assume it will again in the future, otherwise what a huge waste of money.

[sputnik]

Wow. You really are as obnoxious as you seemed in the other threads. The DA-20s (NOT DA-40s as you annoyingly tried to correct me) worked fine for IFT. Sure, more HP is better, but that doesn't mean it was worth the expense. If they were really worried about high altitude performance, they would have bought turbos.

Actually the DA20s worked fine there till summer. They didn't have the climb performance and most days of summer flying ended well before noon. They got 40s over 20s for the exta hp (180hp), not the back seat. After they realized you couldn't effectively do IFT there with 20s and got rid of them (yes, a lot people finished it--including you Nunya--but it took way too long due to wx/DA cancels and thus was considered ineffective) some CSAF suddenly realized that there were no airplanes at USAFA. No powered ones that is. And thought that was a problem. That may or may not have been a problem but he (I can't remember which it was, would have been 06-07ish) decided it was and directed a "Powered Flight Program," thus the name.

Already proved couldn't use 20's, after the T3 no way they could buy anything but an off the shelf aircraft. We all know how the acquisitions process works, and it was too slow for this. So they leased aircraft while the bid went out, etc. The 40 obviously met criteria, which is why Doss bought them and leased them too us. A few companies bid on the actual sale, came down to DA40 and the SR20. Both met specs but Cirrus bid cheaper, hard as that is to fathom. That's why they got it. I and everyone else flying there would have loved the SR22 or something even more powerful, but no way it would have happened cost wise. It went to the cheapest aircraft that met all the requirements, and that came out as the SR20.

As to the question about IFT--PFP does nothing in regard to it, they still go after graduation just like everyone else. This is a 9 ride program with potential to solo on ride 10. Longer term there is a lot of speculation this will turn into IFT for zoomies, just like they used to do. I'm betting on that myself.

BTW that's the Sup in that photo Threeholer posted, he flies as a line IP, pretty reqularly too. Which is cool

[nunya]

Thanks for the info.

[flynhigh]

[GovernmentMan]

some CSAF suddenly realized that there were no airplanes at USAFA. No powered ones that is.

They still had the AeroClub (entirely 172s and a T-41 or two, at the time), Super Cubs and the Twin Otter.

I made it a point to only fly on Sunday mornings...no tower, no chutes, no gliders.

[flynhigh]

U.S. AIR FORCE ACADEMY SELECTS CIRRUS SR20

[StoleIt]

I noticed they didn't flip the cockpit like in the DA-20's.

[B*D*A]

Can someone explain the need for these programs? What is the point of Academy guys getting jump wings, or 10 hours in XX aircraft?

Edit: stoleit asked it first, but still waiting for an answer.

Edited July 6, 2011 by B*D*A

[ThreeHoler]

To make non-zoomies jealous?

[B*D*A]

To make non-zoomies jealous?

Haha. I'm not interested in turning this into a ROTC VS USAFA thread, but I guess then the question is applicable to the ROTC guys to went to Airborne, CST, ect. But since you mentioned it, it would take a shit ton more than 10 hours in a DA-40 to replace the fun I had in college .