Punch at 13 years?

[Catbox]

I'm on the verge of saying enough...enough with pushing phony OPRs and awards packages, enough with uniform changes, enough with force shaping, enough with deployments, enough with TDYs (my several TDY's to Nellis are OK), enough with forced community service and frankly enough of big blue capitalizing on my patriotism and my pride to make me work long hours on stuff that just doesn't matter.

I'm up for my primary board next year, but was told bluntly that I have little chance of getting a DP. Although I have IDE and a BS masters complete without the DP I'm doubtful of my chances. I'd always planned on retiring but with the selective continuation fiasco of this year that isn't really a guarantee either. I readily admit I have put myself in this position because of assignment choices I made when I was a Lt/Capt and medical stuff that kept me out of the jet at key times in my career.

The wife just got a great job and I just got a crap-can assignment...we were thinking that we'd separate the family, let her get in with her company and allow me to see if the promotion came along. AFPC's offering will not make being away from the family easy...its across the country and will likely involve multiple (if short) deployments.

I am about ready to throw in the towel and seven day opt out of this assignment. I'm a Nav so I don't have instant employment options but we could get by on the wife's salary while I figure it out and play Mr Mom. Reserves and guard are an option I would readily take and have the feelers out there...

Am I off my GD rocker here?

[nunya]

Am I off my GD rocker here?

I vote no. I don't have a clue about your promotion chances, but I don't think anyone is going to knock you for choosing your family over your career, especially an unpredictable career at that.

[scoobs]

Always do what's best for your family. If you think being Mr Mom and bumming in the guard it the best way go for it.

[sky_king]

No, the AF may drop you in an instant if they feel like it. If you were to leave tomorrow, do you think Big Blue would screech to a halt? Probably not. The wheel will keep on spinning. However, after 20 years if your then ex-wife hates you and your kids barely know you, what have you really gained?

Service before self? You bet. Service before my kids? To a point.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

I'm on the verge of saying enough...enough with pushing phony OPRs and awards packages, enough with uniform changes, enough with force shaping, enough with deployments, enough with TDYs (my several TDY's to Nellis are OK), enough with forced community service and frankly enough of big blue capitalizing on my patriotism and my pride to make me work long hours on stuff that just doesn't matter.

I'm up for my primary board next year, but was told bluntly that I have little chance of getting a DP. Although I have IDE and a BS masters complete without the DP I'm doubtful of my chances. I'd always planned on retiring but with the selective continuation fiasco of this year that isn't really a guarantee either. I readily admit I have put myself in this position because of assignment choices I made when I was a Lt/Capt and medical stuff that kept me out of the jet at key times in my career.

The wife just got a great job and I just got a crap-can assignment...we were thinking that we'd separate the family, let her get in with her company and allow me to see if the promotion came along. AFPC's offering will not make being away from the family easy...its across the country and will likely involve multiple (if short) deployments.

I am about ready to throw in the towel and seven day opt out of this assignment. I'm a Nav so I don't have instant employment options but we could get by on the wife's salary while I figure it out and play Mr Mom. Reserves and guard are an option I would readily take and have the feelers out there...

Am I off my GD rocker here?

I think your logic is perfectly fine because I'm nearly in the same boat. Tired of watching guys drink the koolaid and become careerist backstabbers. Tired of being told that because I didn't get ACSC done before I pinned on Major, that's a "bad thing", as if getting a damn correspondence course done fast somehow proves leadership ability. Tired of being told that I'll likely go to another flying assignment, just not at the base I'm at (I'm AETC on an AMC base...want to walk across the street to AMC but being told that's "bad for my career"). My kids live near here, I have a house. I'm not going to staff and not going to school, so looking at the numbers I have about a 30% chance of making O-5. In years past, that would be fine because there was a 98% chance I'd be continued to at least 20, but not anymore. I've done a 365-day deployment for this Air Force not that long ago and they are already trying to send me back on a 180 day deployment while other guys have been here for 3+ years with no deployments...yet when I bring that up I'm told "you can't pull that card because you volunteered for that 365, so we don't feel sorry for you". Yeah, volunteered after I was told I'd get it anyways.

I've already made my decision. The ARC is in my future. Yours should be pretty easy to make, considering what you just posted.

[Catbox]

I think your logic is perfectly fine because I'm nearly in the same boat. Tired of watching guys drink the koolaid and become careerist backstabbers. Tired of being told that because I didn't get ACSC done before I pinned on Major, that's a "bad thing", as if getting a damn correspondence course done fast somehow proves leadership ability. Tired of being told that I'll likely go to another flying assignment, just not at the base I'm at (I'm AETC on an AMC base...want to walk across the street to AMC but being told that's "bad for my career"). My kids live near here, I have a house. I'm not going to staff and not going to school, so looking at the numbers I have about a 30% chance of making O-5. In years past, that would be fine because there was a 98% chance I'd be continued to at least 20, but not anymore. I've done a 365-day deployment for this Air Force not that long ago and they are already trying to send me back on a 180 day deployment while other guys have been here for 3+ years with no deployments...yet when I bring that up I'm told "you can't pull that card because you volunteered for that 365, so we don't feel sorry for you". Yeah, volunteered after I was told I'd get it anyways.

I've already made my decision. The ARC is in my future. Yours should be pretty easy to make, considering what you just posted.

It's not that hard of a decision but I have to convince myself that this is a good thing. The worst part about it is that the Air Force and I got to this point, its almost like breaking up with the "sure thing" girl. All the time, memories and expectations out the window in seven days. Having said that, like you, I'm just so tired of the crap. And everyone up and down the chain knowing its crap.

[Butters]

I think your logic is perfectly fine because I'm nearly in the same boat. Tired of watching guys drink the koolaid and become careerist backstabbers. Tired of being told that because I didn't get ACSC done before I pinned on Major, that's a "bad thing", as if getting a damn correspondence course done fast somehow proves leadership ability. Tired of being told that I'll likely go to another flying assignment, just not at the base I'm at (I'm AETC on an AMC base...want to walk across the street to AMC but being told that's "bad for my career"). My kids live near here, I have a house. I'm not going to staff and not going to school, so looking at the numbers I have about a 30% chance of making O-5. In years past, that would be fine because there was a 98% chance I'd be continued to at least 20, but not anymore. I've done a 365-day deployment for this Air Force not that long ago and they are already trying to send me back on a 180 day deployment while other guys have been here for 3+ years with no deployments...yet when I bring that up I'm told "you can't pull that card because you volunteered for that 365, so we don't feel sorry for you". Yeah, volunteered after I was told I'd get it anyways.

I've already made my decision. The ARC is in my future. Yours should be pretty easy to make, considering what you just posted.

Your chances are actually better than 30% if you did ACSC by Correspondence early. They have said it several times, late completion of PME is just like not doing it. Sucks, but that is the way it is. If you did it early, have good strats on your OPRs, and had some wing level jobs your chances are more like 70%.

[Carpetbagger]

Always do what's best for your family. If you think being Mr Mom and bumming in the guard it the best way go for it.

"2"

[WeMeantWell]

we were thinking that we'd separate the family,

For what? (I know for what, but really... for what?)

Life versus job? I choose Life. You are more marketable than you think you are, if you made it through 13 years, you have better management and leadership skills than a good portion of people out there. Build a hell of a resume out of those BS OPRs you have been writing, and you will find something. You might not be the envy of your HS friends as the military guy, but you will have a family who knows you and sees you every night.... Dude, seriously choose them first.

[bfargin]

For what? (I know for what, but really... for what?)

Life versus job? I choose Life. ...... but you will have a family who knows you and sees you every night.... Dude, seriously choose them first.

+2 big time

[Guest]

I'm a Nav so I don't have instant employment options

Don't punch if this is what you think.

FWIW, you are wrong. Fix your thinking and you'll be fine.

[SuperWSO]

Your chances are actually better than 30% if you did ACSC by Correspondence early. They have said it several times, late completion of PME is just like not doing it. Sucks, but that is the way it is. If you did it early, have good strats on your OPRs, and had some wing level jobs your chances are more like 70%.

Hey Butters, just to provide a data point, I signed up for ACSC the same week the promotion list came out. I had it done before I pinned on Major. I really don't think timing on ACSC in correspondence matters unless they are looking at you to go in residence.

Catbox - do you have any EWO background? I've found that can be a marketable skill on the outside.

[Catbox]

Hey Butters, just to provide a data point, I signed up for ACSC the same week the promotion list came out. I had it done before I pinned on Major. I really don't think timing on ACSC in correspondence matters unless they are looking at you to go in residence.

Catbox - do you have any EWO background? I've found that can be a marketable skill on the outside.

I do actually, I was a panel and retrained as an EWO. I have no doubt I could get the scummy contractor jobs. In fact I did basically the same thing that the ground contractors did on my last bogus deployment as a Brigade EWO. I've already looked into it, at least what I've found so far is downrange...for at least double what I make now.

Trying not to get sappy but I really appreciate the honest feedback from everyone. Posting this thread has been the best thing I've done since all this uncertainty came about.

edit:grammar

Edited July 28, 2011 by Catbox

[Dubs]

Posting this thread has been the best thing I've done since all this uncertainty came about.

edit:grammar

Thanks for starting this thread! I've had the same doubts for awhile (although I don't have anywhere near as much time in as you) and I've come to the conclusion that I'm punching at the end of my commitment for basically the same reasons you're thinking about. The fact that others are sick of the shit and are re-evaluating things lets me know I'm not batshit crazy.

[HossHarris]

No one has ever looked back over a career and said "I sure wish I had worked a bit more" ... But there are plenty of broken families in the wake of 20 years.

Do what's best for the family ... But don't burn bridges if you can avoid it. And don't completely write off your promotion chances ....

[SuperWSO]

I do actually, I was a panel and retrained as an EWO. I have no doubt I could get the scummy contractor jobs.

If you like what you do, but you are tired of the qweep, check out the ANG/AFR. You may not have the exact same job/airframe available there, but ask about options for retraining.

[scoobs]

Is it possible to retire AD as a major? I saw the other thread but it was confusing.

[HuggyU2]

I'm a Nav so I don't have instant employment options

Yes, you are probably not going to be an airline pilot. Oh darn.

I know a number of navs that got employed based on their security clearance, and are doing quite well. There is good work out there for quality officers.

[GovernmentMan]

Is it possible to retire AD as a major? I saw the other thread but it was confusing.

Yes, but the climate is not as nice as it has been in recent years.

Edited July 28, 2011 by GovernmentMan

[Dupe]

Have you used your post 9/11 GI bill or do you have concrete plans to save it for your kids? If not, that's law-school or a MBA waiting to happen. I know quite a few folks who are willing to let the wife earn the big pay check for a few years while they make E-5 BAH and work towards one of the high-value post-grad degrees.

Edited July 28, 2011 by Dupe

[M2]

I had an old squadron commander once tell me "the Air Force cost me my first marriage." I called BS. It was his choice, his decisions, and his priorities that did it.

Just keep in mind that things are not that great on the outside right now. Have options if you can't find a job right away. School's a good idea if your family can swing it, consider going to an online college such as AMU if you need flexibility in your schedule. Be absolutely sure you have a budget, nothing will stress and the Frau out more than worrying about money. Prepare for the unexpected, and don't go tapping your savings unless you absolutely have to.

It can be done but it won't be easy, and it is up to you to determine what your priorities are. To be honest, the time between when I hit 13 years and when I retired flew by in a flash; and despite the threats, a military retirement is a good thing to have. But even in the five years since I hung up the uniform a lot has changed, and ultimately you have to consider all aspects of such a move and how it impacts you and most importantly your family.

Good luck, it's not an easy choice!

Cheers! M2

[Catbox]

M2-

Thanks for the insight--its not easy and as resolute as the wife and I were yesterday we both had a sleepless night thinking about the what-ifs. If the idiocy with the selective-continuation would not have happened this year (and come as such a surprise) this would have been a no brainer, I would have stayed in. Her job is less money to begin with but its with a Fortune 500 company that is actually growing so if she plays her cards right she could top out at a higher salary than I could ever hope to get in the next seven years plus my retirement-but a steady paycheck and benefits for life (hopefully the house of cards doesn't collapse) is nothing to shake a stick at even with the promise of higher dollars down another path. We are lucky in that we have savings, absolutely zero debt (mortgage excluded) and I have the GI Bill, guard, reserve and other avenues. But that guaranteed income is such a sweet deal.

My RIP hasn't shown up yet so I have 7+ days to figure this out.

Edited July 28, 2011 by Catbox

[Guest Crew Report]

Is it possible to retire AD as a major? I saw the other thread but it was confusing.

I've seen two guys retire as Captain this year. Probably won't happen in this next few years.

[Hacker]

Is it possible to retire AD as a major? I saw the other thread but it was confusing.

Yes, it is possible. In order for a Major who is passed over for promotion twice to continue service to 20 years, a board must approve his continued time in. In the past, this approval has been basically rubber-stamped and assumed. Just this year that process is less rubber stamp and more actual evaluation of records. The result is that some passed-over Majors in some specific year groups have not been offered continuation and have to get out.

The sky is not falling.

[Catbox]

Yes, it is possible. In order for a Major who is passed over for promotion twice to continue service to 20 years, a board must approve his continued time in. In the past, this approval has been basically rubber-stamped and assumed. Just this year that process is less rubber stamp and more actual evaluation of records. The result is that some passed-over Majors in some specific year groups have not been offered continuation and have to get out.

The sky is not falling.

From what I've read it wasn't an evaluation of records per se, it was if you have the right AFSC you get continued. I agree that the sky is not falling and I'm also positive that in two-three years there will be the "oh shit" moment at AFPC and everyone from Captains on up will get continued. The problem I have had with this non-continution crap is how it came out of the blue. Big Blue swears up and down that they gave everyone fair warning in letters from CSAF, force shaping and RIF breifings but I have looked back through and the letter from CSAF has one line saying somthing about selective continuation "possibly" being not offered. AFPC force shaping breifings have one bullet implying "maybe" selective continuation options would be limited, amongst hundreds of bullets telling Captains and younger Majors all the options they have up to, during and after the RIF.

there's an interesting discussion on the issue here:

https://www.afpc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123260118