Punch at 13 years?

[M2]

Catbox

Just remember you do have options, and it's normal to stress such decisions. Even with a relatively easy transition at retirement (I had a job lined up), I was still wound up about things. It didn't help that we lost my Dad at the same time, but it all turned out well.

Looking back at that and a few other critical decision points in my life, I can say that much of our worrying was for naught. We went through a similar crisis when our first son was born, and again with our second who was later diagnosed with autism.

These are not easy decisions to make but keep in mind that they're not the end of the world either. Just plan accordingly and be prepared for the unexpected, it's that simple!

Cheers! M2

[Van1]

Seems like you have a few different reasons of why you are considering 7 day opting and I think you need to consider each individually. One is to be with the family and the other is fear of not getting promoted. If your goal is to be with the family, the decision should be clear and you need to do what you feel is the most important. But I would not let the fear of not getting promoted be the reason to punch. That is unless you have a lucrative job lined up already. You state that your primary board is coming up which will be in the next 5-6 months or so. If you don't get promoted you will have almost another year to meet your APZ board. Results take a few months to come out and if you once again don't get promoted and don't get offered continuation, you will have another 6 months before you have to get out. Basically, you have over 2 more years of guaranteed employment at $100k+ per year if you don't get promoted and continued. Of course, you never know if some crazy RIF will happen for 14 year majors. And when you don't get continued, you will receive involuntary separation pay which will be around $120k. That's another $320k+ that you have to look forward to. If your main reason for getting out now is promotion fears, I say let it ride as the worse that will happen is you'll be involuntarily separated and will collect the invol sep pay. If you punch now on your own accord, you will get nothing.

And as far as "scummy" contractor jobs, I'm getting ready to take one that pays $39/hr. Thats a little over $81k per year which is just about what my base pay is now. Pretty good money for posessing a TS/SCI.

[Catbox]

And as far as "scummy" contractor jobs, I'm getting ready to take one that pays $39/hr. Thats a little over $81k per year which is just about what my base pay is now. Pretty good money for posessing a TS/SCI.

No offense intended with the contractor jab...I worked very close with all the OEF ground EW contractors on my last deployments and pretty much to a man they were all good guys. However even most them acknowledged that getting $200K a year was a little like highway robbery espcially while the AF officers doing the same job got about half and the enlisted Army EWs made so much less.

[Hacker]

The problem I have had with this non-continution crap is how it came out of the blue.

As has been said before, FENCE In. This is Big Blue standard. If you're not ready for shit like this and constantly taking whatever measures you can to protect yourself, you're wrong.

Remember, the AF is a big, inefficient, reactive bureaucracy that doesn't care about the big picture nor about you. Adjust your priorities accordingly.

[scoobs]

Yes, it is possible. In order for a Major who is passed over for promotion twice to continue service to 20 years, a board must approve his continued time in. In the past, this approval has been basically rubber-stamped and assumed. Just this year that process is less rubber stamp and more actual evaluation of records. The result is that some passed-over Majors in some specific year groups have not been offered continuation and have to get out.

The sky is not falling.

One last question, if you want to stay in but are worried about getting the boot why not wait until that happens? Is it that hard to get into a reserve/guard unit if you have been in 15+ yrs?

[ClearedHot]

One last question, if you want to stay in but are worried about getting the boot why not wait until that happens? Is it that hard to get into a reserve/guard unit if you have been in 15+ yrs?

Fail

[lloyd christmas]

One last question, if you want to stay in but are worried about getting the boot why not wait until that happens? Is it that hard to get into a reserve/guard unit if you have been in 15+ yrs?

Good ole Scoobs. It is hard to believe you have been around here since 2004! Good on ya. You actually didnt have "one last question". You had two. The answer to your first question depends on the 1000 variables that make up someone's personal situation. The answer to your second question is about the same. Guard/Reserve squadrons have hired people with over 15 years before and some will in the future. Again, it depends on about a 1000 variables that the squadron takes into account. Everybody's situation is different.

[Catbox]

One last question, if you want to stay in but are worried about getting the boot why not wait until that happens? Is it that hard to get into a reserve/guard unit if you have been in 15+ yrs?

Two big reasons for this...

AFPC says that once you are twice passed over twice for LtCol you are ineligible to go guard and reserve. The AF Times article quoted someone from AFPC that they were going to be waiving this on a case by case basis. My thinking here is that I could get into the guard/reserve now without a waiver. This is what I've read and interpreted...if anyone can clarify this or has a different outlook please let me know.

2nd reason is that the wife has her job now...it's not quite a once in a lifetime opportunity but it is close to it. She is an MBA and a well known company with local offices/manufacturing sought her out. Her starting pay is not nearly as good as mine but if she performs well, it will catch up. This is the area we want to settle, we have a house, good schools, etc... If I forced the issue, she would move and not take the job but I know in my mind she would never forgive me for that. I had thought about this long before my assignment came up (and AFPC did a TERRIBLE job of matching me with anything even near what was on my ADP) but this has really forced the issue because I have to make a decision. Again I could leave the family, let her take the job and wait out the two years to see what happens and as was mentioned in an earlier post, be $300K up. But some of that would vanish in keeping two households, trips back and forth and extensive need for child care. Frankly it would devastate the kids (6,4) who have seen me vanish for months at a time enough to know they don’t want it anymore.

Again my thinking on this is not perfect—why I’m on a message board asking for advice from strangers (informed as they are). This is probably boring the shit out of everyone but I appreciate the indulgence as I argue with myself in public.

[Bishop]

but was told bluntly that I have little chance of getting a DP.

Last I knew that would probably be a good thing.

Best of luck on the decision, I'm not anywhere near walking the walk, and never will, but 7 years does pass by rather quickly and I would bet that guaranteed pay would be nice to have. On account of some bad financial choices my parents made (bought into a restaurant franchise that failed)when my father was laid off at age 62, if he didn't have his retirement pay coming in they'd be out on the street in 3 months assuming the best. Instead they are able to survive and live happy. Again this isn't likely to be everyone's case but they aren't the first people to ever make a bad decision that bit them in the butt.

Another thing to consider though is the BS or "queep" as its called it exists on the corporate world as well. I go into work everyday with the thought in the back of my mind I might get called into my bosses office and let go, I'm a great employee consistently score above average on my reviews, but the threat is still there, I do many BS reports every day I'm sure run quite close to the "Phony OPR' you mention. So its still out there, just got to hope you land at a place that it isn't as bad, the ANG of the corp world if you will.

Again I'm not nearly as qualified as everyone here heck I dont even know what its like to have kids to worry about and take into account on my life decisions so take my advice fwiw. But the grass is always greener. Id of given anything at one time (hell probably still would) to be in your position as unenviable as it sounds.

Edited July 28, 2011 by Bishop

[nunya]

AFPC says that once you are twice passed over twice for LtCol you are ineligible to go guard and reserve. The AF Times article quoted someone from AFPC that they were going to be waiving this on a case by case basis. My thinking here is that I could get into the guard/reserve now without a waiver. This is what I've read and interpreted...if anyone can clarify this or has a different outlook please let me know.

IIRC, that was applicable to Reserves. Guard is a different system.

[brickhistory]

I turned down O-4 on AD, but had to finish a training ADSC (f'in' JSTARS...), so pulled the trigger with 11 years in. My (then new) wife had also gotten picked up for O-4 and school while I was destined to be a crew dog, i.e., a career filled with endless deployments (this is late 1990s), line swine for eternity, etc, etc, etc. Doing another 9 years of slogging seemed like an eternity at the time. She was going to go places, I wasn't. We made the choice to go with success.

I thank God, however, that she convinced me to go Reserves as an IMA while I worked for Boeing. That IMA job turned into a six month set of orders which turned into a three year EAD gig, then as an AGR for six years and ringing the retirement bell with 22 years total time = 21 years for paid retirement. Since I'd made O-4, the Reserves called it good, then another promotion before saying so long. But we wound up being apart (save weekends and burning up all our leave) for 4-ish years.

Your wife is doing well, but there is no guarentee that the company might downsize, outsource, etc, etc, so that is not a sure thing either.

You might or might not get promoted. Big blue might or might not go back to the historical trend of majors going to 20 (or more). Will your timing match up with the flood of end of ADSC pilots who say they are leaving? If so, USAF will suddenly need rated bodies and you'll be a shoe-in.

Look at the cards you are holding - wife's career potential, your's (you should know in your gut if you think you are a slug, on the fence, or fairly home free), and what the lifestyle for each career would most likely hold for you and your family, then make the call.

Can you live with ditching it/trying for Guard/Reserves (how realistic is that?; seems lots of others want that as well). Will you be competitive/have the right contacts to make that happen?. Will your wife be ok with ditching her opportunity so you can follow you? Is a long (and expensive) dual lifestyle if you try that something that sounds attractive?

Previously, I said that another 9 years of grind sounded endless. Three years after retiring and it's a blink of an eye. But the retirement check (x 2 with my wife's) sure is a nice cushion every month.

Good luck.

Edited July 29, 2011 by brickhistory

[matmacwc]

F AFPC in the A, they have no say in the ARC/ANG hiring process. You my friend, have some bad poop.

[Catbox]

F AFPC in the A, they have no say in the ARC/ANG hiring process. You my friend, have some bad poop.

matmacwc...heres the reg I was referencing. I'm sure ARC/ANG can make thier own rules when it gets to getting someone on (I imagine a bro network helps a lot) but this is out there:

9. REGULAR OFFICERS: Regular officers who are discharged based upon nonselection for promotion are ineligible for a Reserve appointment (AFI 36-2005, Appointment in Commisioned Grades and Designation and Assignment in Professional Categories, Table 2-2, item 25). A waiver of this policy will be granted only in rare instances, wherein (1) the officer's specialty (AFSC) and experience are demonstrated to be extremely critical to the Reserve Forces, (2) the quality of the officers past performance and conduct is judged to be exceptional, and (3) a Guard or Reserve unit endorses the officer's request to affiliate. For further information regarding waiver requirements for Reserve appointment, contact HQ ARPC/DRPB, DSN 926-6446.

edit: I'm a retard.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Catbox

[Guest]

Heed Bishop's words, there is risk on the outside, too. It can happen quickly and without warning.

I'm sure ARC/ANG can make thier own rules when it gets to getting someone

The ANG has tremendous leeway to do pretty much whatever they want. You would not believe the stunt tactics they can get away with. Seriously.

AFRES can also make some amazing things happen, they just have a few more formal hoops.

A waiver of this policy will be granted only in rare instances, wherein (1) the officer's specialty (AFSC) and experience are demonstrated to be extremely critical to the Reserve Forces, (2) the quality of the officers past performance and conduct is judged to be exceptional, and (3) a Guard or Reserve unit endorses the officer's request to affiliate. For further information regarding waiver requirements for Reserve appointment, contact HQ ARPC/DRPB, DSN 926-6446.

While waivers are not common they are also not rare. Be advised, the waiver process can take time if it gets held up atthe state or worse, the ANGB. It will happen if the unit wants it to happen and they are willing to burn some green stamps for you. Getting the support is key but once done it's almost a lock.

[sputnik]

...the indulgence as I argue with myself in public.

Where's the arguing? So far you've listed a lot of reasons why you want to get out. The only arguement you've given for staying is the retirement check. Look, I'm going to love getting that check, but I stayed in 'cause I dug what I was doing more than I disliked the negatives. If you aren't liking it, that's a long slog of misery for a retirement check. It'll still be a great check, but man will it be worth it? Only you can answer that one.