What's wrong with the Air Force?

[AEWingsMN]

But, I lost the fight and after getting twice passed over to 0-5, I am being shown the door at 16 years.

I know some who checked all the containers and just got the same notice too, so be glad you saved the time and hopefully made better use of it!

The problem with "it's the way it's always been, so that's the way it's gotta be" is that it seems universally to be used incorrectly in our USAF.

Masters required as a young CGO, "it's the way it's always been, so that's the way it's gotta be"

Squadron Bars, "it's the way it's always been, so it needs to change!!"

I am strongly against getting a degree to check a container. Heh, I almost wish I didn't get the Bachelors Degree, I felt like I was way more of an intellectual out of high school than I do after sitting through an Aerospace Engineering degree. I am certainly not excited to see what becomes of me after a Masters, haha.

[sky_king]

Another thing F'd up. I moved about 4 months ago and am just finally getting to the final stages of my moving claims reimbursement. After everything is said and done, they want to reimburse me $350 of the $600 I claimed. With writing everything down on (no exaggeration) four different sheets of paper and two websites (all going to the same person) and having the website not work with any of the four web browsers on my three computers, I'll end up making about minimum wage for my efforts. I am convinced that this process is made as difficult as possible to get people to say 'fuck it' and give up, there by saving the company money. Oh yeah, they said it'd take 30-60 days as well. I got my response on the 59th day from the last of the 6 submissions I made.

Last time I let the DOD coordinate my move for me. I'll be taking my 95% from now on thank you.

[stick]

Last time I let the DOD coordinate my move for me. I'll be taking my 95% from now on thank you.

Good call. I stopped letting the AF touch my stuff two moves ago.

Go to eMove.com (works best if you're in a populated area) and hire your own moving team on the front and back side.

Beware, this method only works if you can move door to door, but if you can...

You don't have to deal with TMO wanting your orders 6-9 weeks before you move (and exactly 6-9 weeks before MPF uf*cks themselves long enough to produce them)

You tell the movers when to show up at your house, weekend or weekday. No sitting around wasting an entire day of the mover's choosing.

The movers will pack your stuff, and you drive the Uhaul. You can move as many cans of paint, propane tanks, ammo boxes, and whatever else you want to put in the back.

In the next town, new movers reverse the process, again, meeting you on your schedule.

As far as the AF is concerned, it looks like you did a DITY. You'll spend pretty much all of the money they give you, but you are in control of the entire process. Infinitely better than dealing with the AF method, if you ask me.

[Guest]

I know some who checked all the containers and just got the same notice too, so be glad you saved the time and hopefully made better use of it!

That's got to be just fucking hilarious to a guy who is getting kicked in the junk in a very real way and was trying to give a heads up leaker call while he's in the chute.

Class act.

I almost wish I didn't get the Bachelors Degree, I felt like I was way more of an intellectual out of high school than I do after sitting through an Aerospace Engineering degree.

WTFO?

Are you for real?

It was funny the first few times, now it's just lame

You tattooed that on your ass. It ain't ever going away...or stop being funny.

[I don't exist]

As if they have given up on AFSOC ever being different and special from Big Blue.

I'm surprised that there is any beef with what is going in at HRT. I never felt that it was different. I felt more blue in AFSOC than I ever did in ACC.

As if they really feel that our AF has no hope of ever having the right priorities again . . .

Talking priorities...do we really need 33 Talon IIIs? We use an AMC C-17 when we really need to get stuff done. Where does the Talon fit into the future? If they can't figure out budgetary priorities based on real world threat and political environments, how can they decide if morale is important in a shrinking force structure. This is also a counter argument for "if he can't keep his sleeves down, he can't notch against an SU-27."

Leadership, if you want to fix retention, do some give-and-take to show us you realize that the sum total of the BS is pretty high. Meet every increase in The Suck with a reduction elsewhere. So the new CC has a hard-on for sleeves? OK. But he's BFMing the rules to get us Friday patches, cool. Massive inspection prep taking our family time? gay. But the WG/CC just called a down day after it, and the SQ/CC bought a keg.

Couldn't agree more. However, he has no problem with putting a tuck in his hat. See picture on www.hurlburt.af.mil from his change of command.

[HiFlyer]

No, this is what I was reacting to. Over three years for a guy to be MR in a squadron now? Seriously?

A non-fighter example...my son/C-130: Commission - Sep 09, then at UPT (counting casual, MFS, and IFS) late Sep 09 thru May 2011 and C-130 FTU thru Dec 2011, leave the Rock and take some leave and report to duty station the last couple of days of Jan 2012, six months to move in, get settled, and do the local checkout (assuming the stated six months) gives him an MR date of around late July/Aug 2012. That's pretty close to three years by my calendar. Even if he speeds up a month or two its more or less the same. Add another three months for OTS and its past three years TIS in his case.

[Guest]

I'm surprised that there is any beef with what is going in at HRT. I never felt that it was different. I felt more blue in AFSOC than I ever did in ACC.

Shack.

The only people who thought they were different and special (in terms of being separate from big blue) in AFSOC were SOME OF the people in AFSOC.

There's a reason the first two letters are AF.

[FourFans]

A non-fighter example...my son/C-130: Commission - Sep 09, then at UPT (counting casual, MFS, and IFS) late Sep 09 thru May 2011 and C-130 FTU thru Dec 2011, leave the Rock and take some leave and report to duty station the last couple of days of Jan 2012, six months to move in, get settled, and do the local checkout (assuming the stated six months) gives him an MR date of around late July/Aug 2012. That's pretty close to three years by my calendar. Even if he speeds up a month or two its more or less the same. Add another three months for OTS and its past three years TIS in his case.

Congrats to your son, you must be proud. Where's he going in Herks?

[xaarman]

3 years is about right.

Commissioned 18 June 07, IFS March/April 08, graduated UPT June 09, finished IQT/MQT 10 Feb 10, first deployment June of 2010.

Edited August 29, 2011 by xaarman

[Champ Kind]

2 years 11 months commission to MR for me.

[HiFlyer]

Congrats to your son, you must be proud. Where's he going in Herks?

PACAF's one and only Herc unit!

[Champ Kind]

PACAF's one and only Herc unit!

Hell yes! Tell him to get ready for the time of his life and the best deal in the AF! Man I want to go back......

Pattaya....Clark ..... Hell, even just living in Japan!

sigh.....

Edit: If he doesn't drive the boat, he's a pussy

Edited August 30, 2011 by Champ Kind

[AEWingsMN]

That's got to be just fucking hilarious to a guy who is getting kicked in the junk in a very real way and was trying to give a heads up leaker call while he's in the chute.

Class act.

I guess that came out wrong. Wasn't really trying to be funny. It was more of a "Things could be worse". He could have gone against his conviction of "not getting a cheesy masters just to fill a square" and ended up spending the money/time on it and still ended up in the same boat. Which would have been an even greater kick in the nuts. And I only said it because I've seen it happen already, and I'm new to this. I never said it wasn't good advice or that I didn't wish things were different for him. It was also a heads up that filling the boxes doesn't even guarantee anything either. So I thank him for his advice, and although it may have burned him, it does say something to stick up for ones beliefs, which he did. He's not the first to be burned for sticking up for his beliefs, and won't be the last. But it does take some balls to do so, and to that I actually give him much credit!

WTFO?

Are you for real?

Yes. I went to a pretty quality MN public HS. I felt that coming out of that I was more of a critical thinker than I was coming out of a bachelors in AE. In my degree program, I learned how to plug and play with formulas and learned some Aeronautical concepts and the way things work, but I didn't feel like I came out as a brilliant thinker ready to solve problems outside of basic aeronautics. I'd actually argue I got more out of my AP classes in high school than I did regular college classes, maybe it was just the way I learn though/my priorities.

Edited August 30, 2011 by AEWingsMN

[Swizzle]

3 years 2 months to MR for me.

[Bergman]

Your advice seems to be along those lines after some clarification...others not so much. The whole "bend over and take it" and "stop bitching" and "no excuse not to have a MA as a LT" crowd is who I'm talking to more than you.

Well I guess that means you are talking to me. Or are you talking to yourself:

I refuse to either do the full-stiff arm that results in total career failure

You're arguing with me tooth-and-nail about getting a MA done as quickly as possible, then you say this? Good grief.

check the boxes when appropriate, but do everything possible to both change the system and steer those younger than you on the correct path, which to me is focusing on the mission first and doing anything else second.

Holy shit. That's what I said 4 pages ago.

Fight it if you want, but you'll need an AAD to be able to retire from the AF. I fought it and refused to get a cheesy masters not wanting to waste my valuable evenings locked up in some classroom in an old hangar just to get a crappy degree. At one point in my career, I even listened to some 2 star talk about how if the AF wanted you to get a masters, they would send you to school. But, I lost the fight and after getting twice passed over to 0-5, I am being shown the door at 16 years.

With every swingin' richard getting a masters degree in basket weaving, it ain't worth fighting. You'll lose, just do it. If you want the retirement check, sign up for AMU today.

That is a shitty deal, bro. Sorry to hear about it. Thanks for posting at least, as this highlights the exact situation I was trying to help some of these guys avoid by telling them to get their MA done ASAP.

IMHO we have reached the circular discussion point. Skip the masters at your own peril. Wait until your 8 year point to start it at your own peril. Get it done early and hopefully promote high enough to help stop the madness.

Out.

[Chuck17]

PACAF's one and only Herc unit!

Sooooo.... is that the 36th at Yokota or the 537th at Elmendorf? Both AD, both PACAF.

And yes, Im just giving you shit :)

Chuck

[Guest]

I guess that came out wrong.

Like a fart in church.

So I thank him for his advice, and although it may have burned him, it does say something to stick up for ones beliefs, which he did. He's not the first to be burned for sticking up for his beliefs, and won't be the last. But it does take some balls to do so, and to that I actually give him much credit!

WTFO? That's not what he said at all.

You have completely missed the message he was trying to pass on to you.

Yes. I went to a pretty quality MN public HS.

Please.

I felt that coming out of that I was more of a critical thinker than I was coming out of a bachelors in AE...

I'd actually argue I got more out of my AP classes in high school than I did regular college classes...

Copy, spoon fed or starvation.

Skip the masters at your own peril. Wait until your 8 year point to start it at your own peril. Get it done early and hopefully promote high enough to help stop the madness.

[HiFlyer]

Sooooo.... is that the 36th at Yokota or the 537th at Elmendorf? Both AD, both PACAF.

And yes, Im just giving you shit :)

Chuck

Yeah, I'm old and forget that they gave Alaska away (to PACAF). He'll be a 36th guy, obviously.

[Guest]

Yeah, I'm old and forget that they gave Alaska away (to PACAF).

Pssst, that happened 21 years ago. Right after the wall fell. You remember the Berlin wall fell, right?

OFA need to stick together but you're kind of embarrassing the team.

Congrats to your boy. I'm sure you're proud as hell.

[AEWingsMN]

WTFO? That's not what he said at all.

You have completely missed the message he was trying to pass on to you.

I understood what he said. He was advising to pick your battles, and that he learned it was the wrong one to pick. I just said that it still says something to stick with your beliefs. Hopefully his sticking with his beliefs will lead to some great opportunity behind the next door that he doesn't see yet. For now, I'll take his advice, not fight the wrong battles and hope the best for him.

---

starvation... since you have a clue how any of my teachers/professors taught. All I can go off is what I've seen, but most college professors I have dealt with (not all) have the wrong attitude. For example, "well, I wrote the book, so rather than actually teach, I'm just going to read the words I wrote, directly from the book on a projector."... well, fuck, I can read the book just fine, that's not why I came to class. I did just fine in college, I just didn't feel I gained as much from it in terms of critical thinking.

Edited August 30, 2011 by AEWingsMN

[nsplayr]

He was advising to pick your battles...

You fool! You've activated the bat signal! I'm gonna have to independently evaluate the constitutionality of your advice.

[PolyestherDuck]

You fool! You've activated the bat signal! I'm gonna have to independently evaluate the constitutionality of your advice.

Oh shit. I laughed too when I saw his phraseology and choked on my coffee when I read your response.

[HiFlyer]

Pssst, that happened 21 years ago. Right after the wall fell. You remember the Berlin wall fell, right?

OFA need to stick together but you're kind of embarrassing the team.

Congrats to your boy. I'm sure you're proud as hell.

Yeah, well when it changed I was hip deep moving from HQ SAC to Osan in the recce business and didn't pay that much attention to the "reorg of the day". I think most of the crisis of the day chatter then was about McPeak's new non-uniform. Now its just a distant memory. And yes, I'm pretty proud of him for getting thru the process from OTS to FTU. Frankly, we both worked hard at it!!! He'll be a good asset for the Herc world.

[AEWingsMN]

You fool! You've activated the bat signal! I'm gonna have to independently evaluate the constitutionality of your advice.

haha nice... funny thing is I actually hesitated when typing it. I just didn't have a word like "container" to use instead.

[FlyinGrunt]

i don't exist: 1. Please don't confuse my perhaps-misplaced nostalgia for what possibly wasn't in AFSOC for a slam on everyone else. A slam on big-blue "leadership" . . . yes. I wish I had the picture, but what AFSOC should be: remember the pic of the back of an MC-130 (I think P) with a shit-ton of water bottle piled into it for the tsunami relief? No waiting 2 months to get a whole wing in theater to palletize, stand up ATOC, etc etc . . . just get. it. done. Apply to silly, useless uniform crap and bureaucratic rules strangling the mission . . .

rainman: Please see above. A squadron, command, etc isn't special without DOING something special, so if we can't do that which others can't, better . . . then what's the justification for any other special stuff? And this goes for the "talon 3" stab as well - I agree. AFSOC needs to continue to adapt, move faster than big blue to meet the changing environment, or we're just wasting money and claiming the "special" part for no reason.

But seriously, if you haven't read Apollo's Warriors . . . THAT's the stuff I'm talking about.