What's wrong with the Air Force?

[I don't exist]

remember the pic of the back of an MC-130 (I think P) with a shit-ton of water bottle piled into it for the tsunami relief? No waiting 2 months to get a whole wing in theater to palletize, stand up ATOC, etc etc . . . just get. it. done. Apply to silly, useless uniform crap and bureaucratic rules strangling the mission . . .

Again, couldn't agree more. I was pretty proud of the Command for our response to Haiti, particularly when we got ORI credit for it. I was not proud when every squadron CC was trying to find a way to get his airplane involved when there was no requirement for every capability HRT carries.

AFSOC needs to continue to adapt, move faster than big blue to meet the changing environment, or we're just wasting money and claiming the "special" part for no reason.

Agree again...the time leading up to Desert One is a perfect example of being forward of the conventional forces with training and equipment because they needed to be, not because they could be.

[Guest]

I understood what he said...

I'll take his advice

Good call.

I just didn't feel I gained as much from it in terms of critical thinking.

That's too bad. It'll be good when you can recognize what part of that experience you own (like 99.69%) so you don't repeat fail when a valuable opportunity is presented to you.

rainman: Please see above. A squadron, command, etc isn't special without DOING something special, so if we can't do that which others can't, better . . . then what's the justification for any other special stuff? And this goes for the "talon 3" stab as well - I agree. AFSOC needs to continue to adapt, move faster than big blue to meet the changing environment, or we're just wasting money and claiming the "special" part for no reason.

Got it. Thanks.

[pcola]

I like the "Thats the way it is/has always been" attitude. I've always wondered at what point in one's career that attitude started molding itself in the minds of our fearful "leaders" It seems like people are just afraid of change no matter how much sense it makes because they feel safe with the way things are...they won't get fired if they just keep it the way it is. Yet we will spend waste millions of dollars and man hours making subtle changes to uniform regs about hairy legs and yellow t-shirts when it makes absolutely NO sense (ok, maybe the chick hairy legs part makes sense)

Ask yourself this: If the Air Force changed the rules (back) to masked Masters degrees, would you all of the sudden support the idea because "thats the way it is?" or would you be against it? Or is there another reason you support getting a Masters as a Lt so much? IMO, it seems the only people who are against masked Master's degrees are the ones who most rely on that AAD to help them stand out.

The bottom line is that the way we manage the AAD for officers promotes wasteful spending...period. You can argue that it is the "game" and "just do it because thats the way it is" but it doesn't mean that we are using those funds and the AAD program to our advantage. You have people getting a BS online quickie Masters two years into their career who otherwise would not get one JUST so they stay in the game. The degree is worthless to both the individual and the Air Force if that person just picked the online degree they can finish quickest. Who does it benefit?...the online school that is overcharging for the degree in the first place. In addition to completing your degree too early, depending on your degree, you have to worry about degree recency requirements. Just look at some of the current job requirements out there...some of them require a Masters degree within the past 10 years. How competitive do you think you'll be with an MBA or Aviation Systems Masters from the 80s or 90s (or insert your current degree 20 years from now)?

IMO, to use a Master's degree as a tool to measure potential leadership is some of the most backwards thinking I've ever seen. We should be using them to help the Air Force and our mission. I have never met a single person in my life who all of the sudden became a great leader the day after they graduated from their Master's program. Not once did I ever watch a true leader in action and think to myself "Wow, I wonder what kind of Master's degree that guy has." I know O-5s and a few O-6s without Master's degrees (not including the ones awarded at PME), and they seem to be doing just fine in leadership positions. Imagine that...

I will always say education is important. It is important because it promotes innovative thinking (the exact opposite of "thats the way it has always been" thinking), brings new ideas to the table, and allows for networking of best practice ideas that could change the way we operate as an organization. The people most suited to make those operational level changes/decisions are not Lts and Capt, but rather Majors and Lt Cols...the people we should be targeting for specialized AADs. The irony is that we HAVE a highly educated force, yet some still have the "thats the way it has always been" mindset...probably because that education isn't serving the purpose I've indicated above, but rather box checking and promotion opportunity (sarcasm)

The culture has to change. In these times of fiscal constraints, we are going to have to figure out ways to better spend our money. TA and other education programs are lower hanging fruit and are going to change, the money just isn't there anymore. We just let 157 experienced officers walk because we can't "afford" them. I'm calling on all the highly educated officers out there...this is just one of many ways we misuse our funds...with all that education, surely you can figure out how to do this smartly instead of just saying "thats the way it is/has always been."

I think I've kicked the sh*t out of this dead horse....

Edited for grammar (gotta look smart)

Shack. Worthless fucking degrees from diploma mills are a waste of taxpayer money and of no benefit to anyone other than the diploma mill. Some people get decent degrees that will benefit the Air Force. Most do the quickest, easiest to check the box and get nothing out of it. I've no shit talked to dudes with a Masters that couldn't even tell me what the degree was called. That's what our current system encourages. My boss told me that I should put my EE Masters on hold and do one that I can finish before my Major's board because a completed basket weaving degree is better than a 90% complete EE Masters from Illinois. I didn't listen...and I probably won't be a school select because of it. Oh well.

[Hercster]

Here's another thing wrong with the Air Force, more emphasis on on the (un)important. An email from the command chief at an undisclosed location, edited to protect the guilty:

"ASAB Enlisted Corps,

Welcome to 5MT accountability one and all. Today marks the day that you are

required to know the Airman's Creed and Air Force Song as outlined in my

first 5MT to the Enlisted Corps. At no time did I alleviate ANYONE from this

requirement, so the demographic is clear. If you are an "E-something", this

applies to you. To some it applies even more, especially if you are a

supervisor. If in a supervisory role, you are also accountable TO and FOR

your people.

MANY PEOPLE ARE ASKING WHY I INITIATED THIS 5MT TO BEGIN WITH. Well.Before

we delve into the "whys," let's first revisit the "Who, What, Where, and

When" parts. Those were provided in BOTH the initial and follow-on emails

that I've attached. The "how" was left completely up to you.

- Who: Every Enlisted member assigned to the XXXAEW.

- What: Be able to RECITE from MEMORY the Airman's Creed and "sing"

the first verse of the AF song

- Where: In public forums during Wing events or when asked by

senior leadership.

- When: Primarily by 1 September 2011

- How: Based on your personal preference

- WHY: To forge LEADERSHIP and FOLLOWERSHIP capability and to drive

Enlisted uniformity during ### AEW ceremonies.

BACKGROUND:

- VECTOR 1 came directly from AF Leadership: As CMSAF Roy's

direction when he told all USAF Command Chiefs to."Champion the Airman's

Creed and ensure you and your Airmen are able to recite it". Period.

- VECTOR 2 came from me as a reiteration of CMSAF Roy's

direction. From both a Leadership and followership perspective.

- VECTOR 3 should have come from Your Supervisor: That vector

should have mirrored CMSAF Roy's as a matter of loyalty and in a manner of

professionalism.

- VECTOR 4 should have come from YOU

DISCUSSION: Everyone presented with the 5MT requirements had options in

CHOOSING their personal way ahead. Their choices will place them into a

category of compliance as listed below. Almost everyone should be able to

recognize which demographic they primarily align with. Here are the 6

categories:

1. Someone who just recently arrived here & hadn't had 50 days to meet

the 5MT requirements. You are still accountable, but you'll be granted more

time. Get on it & get there within 50 days from your DAS. You are NOT DONE

yet.

2. Someone who already knew both recitations, and were able to

deliver them from day 1. You were good to go from the initial vector. Good

on you. You are DONE. Would ask that you assist others who aren't quite

there yet.

3. Someone who didn't know either of them BUT accepted the

requirement and made it happen. If you took it upon yourself to learn them,

you are a leader by example. If you took the direction of your supervisor,

you are a competent follower. Regardless, you met the requirements and did

not fail. Good on you. You are DONE. Hopefully you help those around you.

4. Someone in a supervisory position who knew or learned it, led by

example, kept your Wingmen in sight, and pushed your subordinates toward

success. You embodied the ability to Fly, Fight, and WIN. You have proven

yourself as someone who wasn't prone to sit-back, give-up, and allow

failure. Good on you. You are DONE. Your people are probably thanking you

for pushing them to succeed.

5. Someone who TRIED their hardest but still couldn't get it memorized

in time. You may not fully be there yet, but since the words are in your

memory.chances are you'll be able to recite it in a crowd. In any event, I

(and other Wingmen) will recite along with you and together we'll all

succeed in this 5MT. Good on you for giving it your best shot. You are NOT

DONE, so KEEP TRYING until you get 100% of it.

6. Someone who dismissed the entire requirement and neither worked at

it personally..nor pushed their Airmen to success. You Faltered and Failed.

Period. If you're one who either complained about the 5MT, or openly refused

to comply.you're still on the hook. If you're a Supervisor who failed to

lead your Airmen to success.you're still on the hook. If you think this is

over, think again. You are NOT DONE, and that will become even clearer in

the future.

DELIVERABLES: The Commander and I have already been asking Enlisted Airmen

to recite the Airman's Creed in public. Yes folks, the Wing CC is also

on-board in this exercise. So my hope is that we encounter Airmen in

categories 1-5 when we're out and about. So far.it's been good. Two

excursions, 11 Airmen.11 successful deliveries.

WAY AHEAD: I will periodically ask folks if they know it. If they say yes, I

may recite or sing along WITH them. I will ask how they gained their

success. I will ask if they were vector checked buy their immediate

Supervisor. The answers THEY GIVE will tell me who Led and Followed

appropriately. If they say they don't know it.there will be tougher

questions.

BOTTOM LINE: If you are an Enlisted Airman who fell into categories 1-5 -

No need to read on any further unless you really want to. Continue to move

forward and keep finding ways to meet requirements. If your Supervisor

pushed you toward success.thank them. If you Led and followed

appropriately.you hit the 5MT and will be able to execute from here on out.

ROCK BOTTOM LINE: Hopefully the Airman's Creed will become personal to you.

Hopefully you'll realize that EVERY activity you perform EVERY day provides

you an opportunity to Fly, Fight, and win. By realizing that "Fly" equates

to rising to face the challenge, "Fight" equates to expending energy to meet

the challenge, and "Win" equates to overcoming the challenge...it may make

some sense. Hope you Flew, Fought, and Won on this challenge.

Category 6 personnel.read on below my signature block. There's more.

V/R

Chief Xxxxxxxx

CMSgt X. Xxxxx Xxxxxxxx

Wing Command Chief Master Sergeant

### Air Expeditionary Wing (AFCENT)

CATEGORY 6

Just so there's no ambiguity here. If you blew off the requirement , you've

failed as a follower. If you're a supervisor who told your people that it

wasn't important, you have failed exponentially as both a leader and a

follower. By ignoring what your Senior Enlisted leadership directed you to

do, you purposefully missed the mark and took down a couple of our Core

Values with you . First, You didn't demand Excellence in ALL we do and

Secondly you put yourself ABOVE a tasking. two of the 3 core values

destroyed in one fell swoop.

Now.before anyone starts complaining about the difficulty of the Airman's

creed requirements; let me dissect the task into bits and pieces that are

easier to swallow. Hopefully this will clarify the failure a bit more.

NOTE: The first 5MT went out on 12 July, so the entire period of "training"

equates to 50 days. Nice round number, but roughly 7 weeks if you received

it on 12 July.

- Basic Trainees have 7 weeks of "training days" to learn the exact

same things CMSAF Roy asked of us. They do so without the Military

experiences that we have. So, the advantage should have been YOURS.

- Reading the entire Airman's Creed out loud takes less than 40

seconds, even if you momentarily pause between stanzas . That's less than

one minute from end to end.

- Chances are, by reading it out loud for 2 minutes a day you'd

have had it memorized in 20 days. 3 times in a row per day.20 days in a

row. If you did that, you'd be in category 5 at the very least.

- Even if using the entire 50 days, you would have expended 100

total minutes of effort. Less than two total hours of time stretched over

nearly 2 months.simply reading out loud. No sweat. No toil.simply reciting.

- There are 18 total lines in the Airman's Creed, so that equates

to learning 2 lines per week. Actually it's a bit less once you realize that

4 of the lines are exactly the same.

- If you broke it down by stanzas, there are four. So you'd have

had 12 . 5 days to learn each stanza

WHAT I HAVE HEARD: Some thought the 5MT was "stupid" so they QUIT on day one

and TOLD others to blow it off as well. Instead of shaping the environment

through followership and discipline they chose to ACCEPT or even DIRECT

failure. That is intolerable.

WAY AHEAD: Right now, I don't even know who fits into what demographic.But

I'm about to find out. I'll see who knows it or not. If they don't know it,

I'll ask how much time they put into "learning". I'll ask for their

immediate supervisor's name. I'll ask what their Supervisor did to ensure

their success. I'll ask if they were vector checked by their immediate

Supervisor. That should tell me enough to categorize those who failed.and

those who let them fail. Then they will BOTH make it right. It's called

accountability. In this game, everyone gets a trophy.

BOTTOM LINE: Never leave an Airman behind, Never Falter.and do not fail. If

you're off-track.return to the fight NOW. If you tell me you're

reengaging.I'm good with that.

V/R

Chief Xxxxxxxx

/end quote

And I like his use of "vector." I don't even get that many vectors on an ILS.

[Bergman]

Here's another thing wrong with the Air Force, more emphasis on on the (un)important. An email from the command chief at an undisclosed location, edited to protect the guilty:

"ASAB Enlisted Corps,

Welcome to 5MT accountability one and all. Today marks the day that you are

required to know the Airman's Creed and Air Force Song as outlined in my

first 5MT to the Enlisted Corps.....

...blah blah blah....

Chief Xxxxxxxx

/end quote

And I like his use of "vector." I don't even get that many vectors on an ILS.

Sweet Baby Jesus. My heart breaks for the USAF every time I hear or read something like this. This dude is the COMMAND CHIEF and this is what he spends his time worrying about? In a deployed location? I just don't get it. I suspect no amount of conversation with this guy could get him to see why he's out of touch.

The punctuation and grammar make me think this was written by a 9 year old, not an E-9 (and certainly not a Chief!)

I am sorry for you guys who have to serve under this type of management.

[BitteEinBit]

Here's another thing wrong with the Air Force, more emphasis on on the (un)important. An email from the command chief at an undisclosed location, edited to protect the guilty:

"ASAB Enlisted Corps,

Welcome to 5MT accountability...blah blah blah (this sounds like Charlie Brown's teacher) blah blah blah

BOTTOM LINE: Never leave an Airman behind, Never Falter.and do not fail. If

you're off-track.return to the fight NOW. If you tell me you're

reengaging.I'm good with that.

V/R

Chief Xxxxxxxx

/end quote

YGBFSM! I've had enough. I'm genuinely concerned about the future of our Air Force if this is the sh*t we are going to focus on. They are making THIS a requirement but many MANY don't even know the AFIs that apply to their PRIMARY DUTY! This is an EPIC FAIL in "leadership" like I have never seen before. He must have spent HOURS writing that e-mail...I couldn't even finish reading it. Imagine all the untucked shirts and flip flops running around ASAB right now. If this is the shit we are going to focus on, then I don't belong in this Air Force any longer. Sorry, this focus is not going to save my life or get my mission done. My God...how did we ever project airpower before the Airman's Creed??

To the Chief...please take your own advice in your "bottom line" You have lost track...get back to the fight...NOW!

[sky_king]

wow... and to think he wrote this in a 6.9 page email. I still have yet to see the good example of an E-9. Of course, a good E-9 probably doesn't get involved in the officer corps much so I'll never really see them.

[Guest]

His method aside, is it a bad thing that folks should know the song and the creed?

[ExBoneOSO]

His method aside, is it a bad thing that folks should know the song and the creed?

From a strictly "esprit de corps" or heritage thing (especially the song, since the creed doesn't have the AAF legacy behind it) no, but to use knowing the lyrics/words as a measurement of leadership potential, absolutely not. It's the same as all the other queep, job knowledge/proficency should be first priority, everything else should take care of itself.

Then again, the AF isn't exactly swimming in common sense lately...

[Alpharatz]

I knew it was a mistake to screw with the internet this morning. I mean, really...if a so called senior NCO has time for this.... then he/she/it should be instantly put to something useful like swapping tires on the line, or gassing up planes, or picking up FOD for C....sake. Now this alleged "commander".....he/she/it should be fired. I am beginning to think (mostly from reading Baseops) that USAF could easily take a 2-3% (5?) cut at the higher personnel levels. I was thinking of printing this and showing it around but no one would be surprised because it's pretty bad in the corporate world too....self licking BS.

...Hint to management. Here's a song you might not like.."nothing can stop the Army Air Corps"...

[brickhistory]

Welcome to 5MT accountability one and all. Today marks the day that you are

required to know the Airman's Creed and Air Force Song as outlined in my

first 5MT to the Enlisted Corps.

The good Lord says I'll be fine 'cuz I'm retired, but you guys are fooked."

Instill it in basic, AMS, ROTC, OTS, USAFA.

Use it sparingly as a commander's call/unit bbq morale challenge - coin/beer to the one who can actually recite it.

Challenge folks in a so-called "combat zone?"

Not so much...

[jcollins]

It's been a while since I wore stripes but I thought Command Chiefs were supposed to look out for the well-being of their enlisted folks. This guy seems intent on sucking up to his boss instead. Don't worry there are plenty of people in the civilian world who will MF their people and their peers to get ahead as well. This guy will fit in just fine when he retires.

[ram02]

Instill it in basic, AMS, ROTC, OTS, USAFA.

Use it sparingly as a commander's call/unit bbq morale challenge - coin/beer to the one who can actually recite it.

Challenge folks in a so-called "combat zone?"

Not so much...

"2." I had to do the whole memorization drill as a ROTC cadet: Code of Conduct, AF song (all 4 verses), leadership quotes, etc. That's all fine and to be expected for that phase of AF life. Now that I've been in a number of years, I have better things to commit to memory, all of which have to do with my job on an airplane. The Airman's Creed was invented after I stopped memorizing "Warrior Knowledge" out of a little book, so I view it as a waste of time to memorize it just so I can pop to attention in the DFAC and regurgitate it at whim for someone on "Warrior Knowledge Patrol," just like I was back at field training again.

[BattleRattle]

I wish I could say I'm surprised by the content of the E-9's e-mail, but I'm not.

Chalk another victory up for the shoes.

[Champ Kind]

If this shoe stopped me and starting quizzing me on this shit, I think I would have him at attention and have him recite some shit that actually matters, like some TTPs (unclass, of course)..... you know, just to bring home the reality that there is an actual conflict going on outside the gates of his little fantasy summer camp.

[Guest Scaredfuzz]

Yes folks, the Wing CC is also on-board in this exercise. So my hope is

that we encounter Airmen in categories 1-5 when we're out and about.

So far.it's been good. Two excursions, 11 Airmen.11 successful deliveries.

WAY AHEAD: I will periodically ask folks if they know it. If they say yes, I

may recite or sing along WITH them. I will ask how they gained their

success. I will ask if they were vector checked buy their immediate

Supervisor. The answers THEY GIVE will tell me who Led and Followed

appropriately. If they say they don't know it.there will be tougher

questions.

Seriously? I did that in ROTC and you know what that was fine because like Rainman said its Air Force heritage and it was my actual job to learn it then, and I don't mind reciting the creed or singing the song at AF events. But holy hand grenades, "excursions" to find out if airman know it? They seriously have nothing better to do with their time but go interrupt some poor airman's day and stand there and sing the AF song together?

[spaceman]

4. Someone in a supervisory position who knew or learned it, led by

example, kept your Wingmen in sight, and pushed your subordinates toward

success. You embodied the ability to Fly, Fight, and WIN.

What

ROCK BOTTOM LINE: ...By realizing that "Fly" equates

to rising to face the challenge, "Fight" equates to expending energy to meet

the challenge, and "Win" equates to overcoming the challenge...it may make

some sense. Hope you Flew, Fought, and Won on this challenge.

Oh... Wait, WHAT?!

Edited September 1, 2011 by spaceman

[Guest]

The Air Force would be far better off if we started teaching songs like "Strafe the Town and Kill the People"

Amen.

Do people still sing in the bar?

"...hope to catch them all in prayer."

[Breckey]

Napalm sticks to kids!

[sky_king]

How offensive.

[Hercster]

I'm just waiting for the day when this "requirement" is pushed to the O's. I feel for the E's. Maybe a finance or comm guy (like this steller command chief) can find the extra time in their cozy office, but a MX dude or SF sweating out in the sun all day? Forget about it.

[GovernmentMan]

WAY AHEAD: I will periodically ask folks if they know it. If they say yes, I

may recite or sing along WITH them.

A bottle to whoever films this happening and can provide a YouTube link of it.

[matmacwc]

I F'd a dead whore by the roadside.....one of my favorites.

[Swampfox]

I didn't read through this entire thread, but I think this belongs here. If it's a repost, I don't care.

By BGEN Greg Stroud (Ret)

Some of you know that I was recently "retired" as the 162 Fighter Wing

Commander.

The decision was made by Brig Gen Mike Colangelo, the Arizona Air Commander,

who replaced me because he "just wants to change the culture at the 162nd"

-- not for cause or performance or any other reason.

This officer never commanded anything bigger than an Air Control Squadron,

and somehow he wound up in charge.

Heck, the guy probably got beat up in grade school everyday.

I think it is indicative of what is happening in our Air Force and

reinforces what Bruce MacLennan and the anonymous author have to say below.

Well, I also have something to say about our changing Air Force and it's

quickly disappearing Fighter Pilot culture.

How many scope-dope drone operators does it take to change a lightbulb?

Two. One to change the bulb -- and one to kiss my ass.

That's right. I said kiss my ass -- 'Cause I've had it.

The air superiority fighter and its PILOT are not dead and the Chinese are

so far not impressed with drones.

I am tired of Fighter Pilots suffering at the hands of all the pencil

pushing REMFs and ladder-climbing opportunists and shitty non-rated managers

(who think they are leaders) just because the Air Force is currently more

interested in feelings and sexual orientation than fighting.

Not all officers have what it takes to lead warriors, yet too many of them

are in charge in our military.

At this rate we may lose the next real war.

These shit-bird officers need to be run out of leadership positions and get

out of my face already.

We have too many people in our military that feel the need to play political

victim and go to court instead of just dealing with it themselves. No one

can have any kind of fun anymore.

Men and women can't flirt, hug, look at anyone sideways, or drink beer out

of mermaid mug because of you "victims" and your lawyers.

Are you happy?

And while I'm at it, Fighter Pilots, who are willing to die so that we can

have low prices at the gas pump and shop at the mall, should be able to

throw the wildest parties they can manage without one uptight biddy coming

in and stopping it.

There were scads of women at The '91 Tailhook party who were having the time

of their lives, voluntarily being just as debauched as any of the men were.

Everyone who flew a plane, or even knew someone who flew a plane, knew how

wild those parties were and what went on.

What does our society expect -- a prayer service?

It's worse now than it was then.

"Victims" need to just throw some punches of their own whenever guys, gals,

lesbos, or homos get out of line.

Doesn't our tax money go to teach all of our military how to fight?

I'm not trying to make the idiotic "she had it coming" argument here, which

would go something like "of course they grabbed her breasts, look how big

they are."

Plus, just reaching out and grabbing some boob is wrong no matter what.

When I was at Tailhook, even at our most drunken admin parties we never

acted like that.

No matter how hard I try I can't think of an excuse good enough to do

something like that. But it's still nothing to lose a career over or get

your panties in a wad.

Besides, fighter pilots are supposed to be aggressive assholes. That's how

we used to train them.

I don't know about you, but I don't want a military of fighter pilots who

are gifted at giving sensitivity seminars.

I want mad-dog, rabid killers going to battle for me and mine. Man or woman.

When our homeland is threatened by Middle-Eastern Muslim radicals, or when

we want to force our form of government on some poor, unsuspecting poppy

growing shit hole, or when uppity North Korean despots develop nuke weapons,

I want to be able to call on men and women who like to fight and drink.

I want an officer who knows how to whack some drunk in the balls when he

grabs her tits, not call a press conference and a lawyer.

If you're a wimp who doesn't know how to find the exit at a rowdy party, go

fly a kite -- not a jet fighter.

Fighter Pilot should always be capitalized because it is a hard-earned

title. So there!

Perhaps it's time for me to retire.

Greg "Mongo" Stroud

[matmacwc]

I think he actually posted this on the site and it was taken down in a few days by the mods.