What's wrong with the Air Force?

[Shiner]

Yeah it was. Deleted because it was 99.69% copied from a book by Drew Carey.

[Winchester]

Shack.

The only people who thought they were different and special (in terms of being separate from big blue) in AFSOC were SOME OF the people in AFSOC.

There's a reason the first two letters are AF.

That's why the "S" stands for "Serendipity"

[JarheadBoom]

His method aside, is it a bad thing that folks should know the song and the creed?

I'd rather them know their jobs inside-out and backwards. Sadly, that has become a very rare exception.

The worst part of this is... I fear this E-9's "leadership" method may spread to my location.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

If this shoe stopped me and starting quizzing me on this shit, I think I would have him at attention and have him recite some shit that actually matters, like some TTPs (unclass, of course)..... you know, just to bring home the reality that there is an actual conflict going on outside the gates of his little fantasy summer camp.

THERE'S the perfect response. If he decides he wants to stand you up and quiz you on that shit, step 1 is actually recite the creed (beat him at his own game) and then waste 20 minutes of his time quizzing him on EVERY airplane on the ramp, its mission, its history, its crew composition and its use as a weapon.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

THERE'S the perfect response. If he decides he wants to stand you up and quiz you on that shit, step 1 is actually recite the creed (beat him at his own game) and then waste 20 minutes of his time quizzing him on EVERY airplane on the ramp, its mission, its history, its crew composition and its use as a weapon.

That's probably the best idea yet...recite the ing creed word for word (so they have nothing to bitch about...and let's face it, as stupid as it is, it's really not that hard) then make those idiotic shoes look like morons when you ask them the mission of the aircraft on the ramp, etc.

[BFM this]

Sadly he is probably not engaging O's, certainly not the ones in bags. Like any other self righteous busybody, he's likely picking on SrA or at most SSgts. So only the first half of beating him at his own game would likely work for the end user. Unless of course an A/C caught said E9 rolling in on one of your own crew, then it's fights on since the E9 has wandered into the threat of his own low SA accord.

Edited September 3, 2011 by BFM this

[nsplayr]

IDK...I've seen numerous dudes get "chiefed" when they were LT and Captain bag-wearers at a certain undisclosed location in SW Asia. One dude, I shit you not, handed out business cards so we could "follow up with him" on whatever uniform/grooming standards/BS local procedure issue we were having that day.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

Sadly he is probably not engaging O's, certainly not the ones in bags. Like any other self righteous busybody, he's likely picking on SrA or at most SSgts. So only the first half of beating him at his own game would likely work for the end user. Unless of course an A/C caught said E9 rolling in on one of your own crew, then it's fights on since the E9 has wandered into the threat of his own low SA accord.

Hell, when I was at ASAB several years back, we (mostly Os, ranging from O-3 to O-5) were relaxing in our dorm common area when some dude rampaged through yelling at everyone to "get off your lazy asses and pick this place up" and he had people mopping, sweeping and running around like crazy in no time...I guess it was just a human reflex or something that's drilled into you from the beginning, but Majors, Captains (like me) and even our Lt Cols were running around doing it...then he stormed out as fast as he stormed in...next thing you know, we're all going "hey, who the was that guy?". Turns out it was one of the support squadron's first shirt...he was like an E-7 or something. Needless to say our squadron leadership supposedly had a talk with him, but the point I'm making is never underestimate today's senior NCO....they've been trained to believe they are not only there to keep the junior enlisted in line, but the O's as well.

Just look at how that O-5 in this or another thread reacted...stating bullshit like "we better get ourselves uned before the Chief gets here". UFB.

[Buddy Spike]

- WHY: To forge LEADERSHIP and FOLLOWERSHIP capability and to drive

Enlisted uniformity during ### AEW ceremonies.

Foul. You know a service has lost its focus when it's about uniformity during ceremonies of all things.

6. Someone who dismissed the entire requirement and neither worked at

it personally..nor pushed their Airmen to success. You Faltered and Failed.

Period. If you're one who either complained about the 5MT, or openly refused

to comply.you're still on the hook. If you're a Supervisor who failed to

lead your Airmen to success.you're still on the hook. If you think this is

over, think again. You are NOT DONE, and that will become even clearer in

the future.

What is this, the Hitler youth? Where is the focus on the actual mission? Is Al Qaeda going to spontaneously burst into flames if they hear the Airmen's creed or Air Force Song?

DELIVERABLES: The Commander and I have already been asking Enlisted Airmen

to recite the Airman's Creed in public. Yes folks, the Wing CC is also

on-board in this exercise. So my hope is that we encounter Airmen in

categories 1-5 when we're out and about. So far.it's been good. Two

excursions, 11 Airmen.11 successful deliveries.

And this, friends, is exactly what is wrong with the Air Force. The Chiefs, first shirts, et al have all been given free reign to go nuts with this horseshit. It is a fundamental failure in that WG/CC's leadership to allow this to go on (and even endorse it), and it's what gives these folks leverage to actually believe that in this man's Air Force E-8+ > O-4 and below. This is unsat.

BOTTOM LINE: If you are an Enlisted Airman who fell into categories 1-5 -

No need to read on any further unless you really want to. Continue to move

forward and keep finding ways to meet requirements. If your Supervisor

pushed you toward success.thank them. If you Led and followed

appropriately.you hit the 5MT and will be able to execute from here on out.

The irony is that this long-winded nonsensical policy was delivered via e-mail. Leadership via e-mail is no leadership at all.

ROCK BOTTOM LINE: Hopefully the Airman's Creed will become personal to you.

Hopefully you'll realize that EVERY activity you perform EVERY day provides

you an opportunity to Fly, Fight, and win. By realizing that "Fly" equates

to rising to face the challenge, "Fight" equates to expending energy to meet

the challenge, and "Win" equates to overcoming the challenge...it may make

some sense. Hope you Flew, Fought, and Won on this challenge.

How about overcoming the challenge that is the actual mission? Until Finance, the MPF, maintenance, and ops all operate and execute with zero errors, there is no time to focus on anything but the mission. And we are certainly not there yet (nor will we ever be at this pace).

NOTE: The first 5MT went out on 12 July, so the entire period of "training"

equates to 50 days. Nice round number, but roughly 7 weeks if you received

it on 12 July.

- Basic Trainees have 7 weeks of "training days" to learn the exact

same things CMSAF Roy asked of us. They do so without the Military

experiences that we have. So, the advantage should have been YOURS.

- Reading the entire Airman's Creed out loud takes less than 40

seconds, even if you momentarily pause between stanzas . That's less than

one minute from end to end.

- Chances are, by reading it out loud for 2 minutes a day you'd

have had it memorized in 20 days. 3 times in a row per day.20 days in a

row. If you did that, you'd be in category 5 at the very least.

- Even if using the entire 50 days, you would have expended 100

total minutes of effort. Less than two total hours of time stretched over

nearly 2 months.simply reading out loud. No sweat. No toil.simply reciting.

- There are 18 total lines in the Airman's Creed, so that equates

to learning 2 lines per week. Actually it's a bit less once you realize that

4 of the lines are exactly the same.

- If you broke it down by stanzas, there are four. So you'd have

had 12 . 5 days to learn each stanza

Imagine if everyone took this time to learn their job instead, how productive we'd actually be.

WAY AHEAD: Right now, I don't even know who fits into what demographic.But

I'm about to find out. I'll see who knows it or not. If they don't know it,

I'll ask how much time they put into "learning". I'll ask for their

immediate supervisor's name. I'll ask what their Supervisor did to ensure

their success. I'll ask if they were vector checked by their immediate

Supervisor. That should tell me enough to categorize those who failed.and

those who let them fail. Then they will BOTH make it right. It's called

accountability. In this game, everyone gets a trophy.

No, that's not the way the world works. Not everyone deserves a trophy. This idiot needs to spend more time outside the wire. Maybe he should sit front row in a TIC and see how useful this knowledge really is for him.

BOTTOM LINE: Never leave an Airman behind, Never Falter.and do not fail. If

you're off-track.return to the fight NOW. If you tell me you're

reengaging.I'm good with that.

This Chief needs to take his own advice and get back to the FIGHT. I am seriously beside myself at how asinine this "requirement" is.

And I like his use of "vector." I don't even get that many vectors on an ILS.

Nothing like a Chief trying to sound "tactical" from his glass house.

[arg]

THERE'S the perfect response. If he decides he wants to stand you up and quiz you on that shit, step 1 is actually recite the creed (beat him at his own game) and then waste 20 minutes of his time quizzing him on EVERY airplane on the ramp, its mission, its history, its crew composition and its use as a weapon.

Sadly he is probably not engaging O's, certainly not the ones in bags. Like any other self righteous busybody, he's likely picking on SrA or at most SSgts. So only the first half of beating him at his own game would likely work for the end user. Unless of course an A/C caught said E9 rolling in on one of your own crew, then it's fights on since the E9 has wandered into the threat of his own low SA accord.

I would hope that any O worth his/her salt after witnessing said event would say “Chief Master Sergeant(don’t call him Chief, and you can‘t address them as Sergeant anymore) remf, a moment of your time”. Notice the lack of question mark at the end of that.

Then begin quizzing/schooling him on planes, mission, ect. as stated above.

PS; An added win here is think of the respect that Airman would have for the Officer corps after that.

[SocialD]

IDK...I've seen numerous dudes get "chiefed" when they were LT and Captain bag-wearers at a certain undisclosed location in SW Asia. One dude, I shit you not, handed out business cards so we could "follow up with him" on whatever uniform/grooming standards/BS local procedure issue we were having that day.

Hah, this reminded me of a time the Deid when I was still an E. A fellow maintainer and I were in the beginning stages of getting Chiefed, when my flight chief (a MSgt) walks up and says to the Cheif "whatever you're bitching about doesn't matter, these boys are getting food so they can get back to catch their jets, move out of the way!" The look on that Chiefs face was hilarious. My flight chief was very old and very crusty (crewed jets in Vietnam), he was not worried, nor did he care about the ramifications. If you worked hard for him, he took care of you...we need more guys like him!

[pawnman]

IDK...I've seen numerous dudes get "chiefed" when they were LT and Captain bag-wearers at a certain undisclosed location in SW Asia. One dude, I shit you not, handed out business cards so we could "follow up with him" on whatever uniform/grooming standards/BS local procedure issue we were having that day.

On a previous deployment, we actually had our own cards printed. Then when some guy tried to REMF you in passing, you'd stop them and get their name, office symbol, phone number, supervisor, etc. We told them the boss was cracking down and we had to take this info back to our chain...the reality was, we were trying to waste as much of their time as possible with each and every REMFing.

[contraildash]

After hearing some of our enlisted aircrew were getting harassed by a Chief, in the middle of eating, I've been having my crews eat together. We've seen said chief, but he hasn't come over to play while us O's are around. We anxiously await.....

Edited September 4, 2011 by contraildash

[Guest Hueypilot812]

Hah, this reminded me of a time the Deid when I was still an E. A fellow maintainer and I were in the beginning stages of getting Chiefed, when my flight chief (a MSgt) walks up and says to the Cheif "whatever you're bitching about doesn't matter, these boys are getting food so they can get back to catch their jets, move out of the way!" The look on that Chiefs face was hilarious. My flight chief was very old and very crusty (crewed jets in Vietnam), he was not worried, nor did he care about the ramifications. If you worked hard for him, he took care of you...we need more guys like him!

Sadly that's what the Chiefs were originally designed to be there for...to look out for the enlisted troops and take care of them. Now many think that acting like an E-10 somehow makes them on par with an O-6.

[Prosuper]

If you see this guy walk the other way.

https://www.386aew.afcent.af.mil/library/biographies/bio.asp?id=14701

Oh wow! He went to the Gettysburg Leadership conference, he's a combat leader.

Edited September 4, 2011 by Prosuper

[Champ Kind]

If you see this guy walk the other way.

https://www.386aew.afcent.af.mil/library/biographies/bio.asp?id=14701

Ron White is in the AF??

[Guest]

Sadly that's what the Chiefs were originally designed to be there for...to look out for the enlisted troops and take care of them. Now many think that acting like an E-10 somehow makes them on par with an O-61.

FIFY

[Murph]

As if they have given up on AFSOC ever being different and special from Big Blue. As if they really feel that our AF has no hope of ever having the right priorities again . . . But when you're running the command ragged with deployments for a decade or more, endless alert commitments locking people down, all the above bullshit and the threat of Cannon...

Oh no!! Not the "threat" of Cannon!!

AFSOC isn't perfect but it still is an organization to be proud of. While AMC was still figuring out how to support Haiti, CCT had the airport open with Talons and AFSOC slicks ferrying people out of the country. Col Elton was putting his career on the line to free up ramp space and get people the medical attention they deserved. And that counted for HRT's ORI. Not a bad outing for AFSOC.

Bro, I'm with you on the ops tempo. I have more time in Afghanistan than HRT and CVS combined. In the last ten months I've deployed, WIC, SOS in res and now I get to go back for yet another deployment. It's taken a he'll of a toll on my family and even physical health. But being a angry or cynical old battle axe isn't going to change shit--trust me, I tried.

[BitteEinBit]

Oh no!! Not the "threat" of Cannon!!

AFSOC isn't perfect but it still is an organization to be proud of. While AMC was still figuring out how to support Haiti, CCT had the airport open with Talons and AFSOC slicks ferrying people out of the country. Col Elton was putting his career on the line to free up ramp space and get people the medical attention they deserved. And that counted for HRT's ORI. Not a bad outing for AFSOC.

Bro, I'm with you on the ops tempo. I have more time in Afghanistan than HRT and CVS combined. In the last ten months I've deployed, WIC, SOS in res and now I get to go back for yet another deployment. It's taken a he'll of a toll on my family and even physical health. But being a angry or cynical old battle axe isn't going to change shit--trust me, I tried.

For you my friend...it will get worse before it gets better. We are about to see "more with less" like we've never seen it before....

[matmacwc]

I heard a good one yesterday to make us all happy with the FY13 budget. They are considering changing "experience" again as well as reducing flying hours. The best one I heard was a tiered readiness option, sounds like we are becoming the DPRK. I need to stop talking to O-6's, I just get pissed off.

[BitteEinBit]

I heard a good one yesterday to make us all happy with the FY13 budget. They are considering changing "experience" again as well as reducing flying hours. The best one I heard was a tiered readiness option, sounds like we are becoming the DPRK. I need to stop talking to O-6's, I just get pissed off.

That is why I think our organization is in danger. We say we are short of pilots for the mission we are being asked to do...Big Blue solution: reduce pilot manpower requirements so the numbers look better even though the missions we are asked to do don't get reduced. We say we are short on experience...Big Blue solution: change the rules that define "experience." At the same time, we force out our real experience in Sr NCOs and FGOs by reducing HYT and not offering continuation to passed over officers (I understand fiscal constraints). We take our young officers and rush them through development, making them focus more on PME and AADs and less on their primary jobs where they actually get experience and become competent. Where does that leave us? With a lot of very smart (at least on paper) academics with no real tactical competence who now have to lead manage the next group of young airmen into our next war. That scares me.

I remember a time when we upgraded people to IP or made them Flt CCs because they were good at what they did and were ready for it. Now we do it because we are trying to fill quotas and get people the jobs they need before their "first look." We are getting negative feedback from the FTUs about the quality of candidates we are sending. Maybe it is just my unit...or is anyone else noticing these trends?

Sure, I'm speaking in GENERAL terms...we have very bright officers out there making sh*t happen, but I'm starting to see more and more of our young LTs/Capts who are just worried about checking the square than they are on actually being the best at their primary job. And now on top of rushing our younger force through professional development with odd jobs outside the squadron where they don't fly enough, the AF wants to reduce flying hours and change the definition of "experience" too? Is that the answer? We lower the standards? Is that the reason SATISFACTORY on an ORI is the new "norm?" That scares me more...

[busdriver]

Is that the reason SATISFACTORY on an ORI is the new "norm?"

I understand and agree with your sentiment, but you're really going to bring ORIs into this?

[contraildash]

How many of us, when we sit down to eat a meal while wearing bags, or any long sleeved top for that matter, push up our sleeves? Hell I do it every time. Why? I don't want my sleeves to get into my g-damn food.

Apparently pushing up your sleeves whilst eating, is good enough reason for my previously mentioned chief to interrupt meals. UFB

....still waiting for this doucher to say something.

[epsilon]

https://travel.usatoday.com/flights/story/2011/06/Demand-for-airline-pilots-set-to-soar/48661596/1

I hope big blue factored this into the equation

[Guest Hueypilot812]

https://travel.usatoday.com/flights/story/2011/06/Demand-for-airline-pilots-set-to-soar/48661596/1

I hope big blue factored this into the equation

Welcome to June 2011.