What's wrong with the Air Force?

[SuperWSO]

My turn.

However, I will offer this about the chant. If it was such a great and inspiring piece of literature, people would want to know it more that the latest Katy Perry song.

Could we have Dos Gringos do a revised version of the creed and put it to music? How many guys know all the words to "Two's Blind"? Probably more than know the Airmans Creed.

[Majestik Møøse]

The GAU-8 has a 5 mil dispersion. That means an average combat shot will have 45' of dispersion for 80% of the rounds at 9k slant range. It is important to note that mils subtend a greater distance at longer slant ranges so you would not want to open fire any further than 9k. Flashlight effect aside, that means 0.075 bullets/square foot on a 9k slant range three second burst...and that is with the perfect Track-Shoot-Track and no Aiming Error (which is the greatest and most common of all errors in weapons delivery by any platform).

So, you can see you do not want to cast any more dispersion than is inherent in the system since bullet density is the key to Pk.

Does that help?

Is it true that initially the GAU-8 didn't have enough dispersion so they made the gun slightly less accurate? Maybe to overcome said Aiming Error, i.e. to get more of a shotgun effect? I can't remember who told me that.

I ask because it's so hard to see what's going on 20K' below.

[Guest]

Is it true that initially the GAU-8 didn't have enough dispersion so they made the gun slightly less accurate? Maybe to overcome said Aiming Error, i.e. to get more of a shotgun effect? I can't remember who told me that.

I ask because it's so hard to see what's going on 20K' below.

No.

[Champ Kind]

Quote from the AF Times forum that is actually an answer to the original question in this thread:

"The Air Force is almost half the size it was during Desert Storm. We are flying aircraft with an average age of 30 years.

We can't seem to get a new tanker...even when we try we hose it all up.

The previous Sec Def fired our leaders and claimed getting ISR out of us was like "pulling teeth."

Our personnel and finance systems have been decimated through force reductions to pay for a fighter jet that right now can't even fly. As a result folks are pretty much on their own - I once personally had a troop that was not paid for over 5 MONTHS (I was completely embarrassed for myself and my peers because the stripes I wear could do nothing to fix it).

I have troops leaving a career field with a 6.5 SRB ($90,000 for a 6 year reup) despite the economy because of the AF insanity. A few have tried to leave for THE ARMY and were turned down because of our cronic critical status.. Maybe you could insinuate I'm one of the reasons they are leaving...but I would laugh at you, and I would hazard a guess most of my troops would as well. JMO though.

We have been filling Army deployments in a flammable uniform with several different collar boot variations because we can't even figure out uniform requirements.

My list is endless. The Air Force is broke...and I have no problem admitting it. "

Edited September 7, 2011 by Champ Kind

[stract]

The real question is, what's the third verse of the AF song?

(besides zoomies) And for that one E-9 who does know the Third Verse, does he know that it is sung to a different tune?

[zrooster99]

Quote from the AF Times forum that is actually an answer to the original question in this thread:

"The Air Force is almost half the size it was during Desert Storm. We are flying aircraft with an average age of 30 years.

We can't seem to get a new tanker...even when we try we hose it all up.

The previous Sec Def fired our leaders and claimed getting ISR out of us was like "pulling teeth."

Our personnel and finance systems have been decimated through force reductions to pay for a fighter jet that right now can't even fly. As a result folks are pretty much on their own - I once personally had a troop that was not paid for over 5 MONTHS (I was completely embarrassed for myself and my peers because the stripes I wear could do nothing to fix it).

I have troops leaving a career field with a 6.5 SRB ($90,000 for a 6 year reup) despite the economy because of the AF insanity. A few have tried to leave for THE ARMY and were turned down because of our cronic critical status.. Maybe you could insinuate I'm one of the reasons they are leaving...but I would laugh at you, and I would hazard a guess most of my troops would as well. JMO though.

We have been filling Army deployments in a flammable uniform with several different collar boot variations because we can't even figure out uniform requirements.

My list is endless. The Air Force is broke...and I have no problem admitting it. "

Well said, and I thought it was becuase I wasn't wearing my uniform correctly...

Edited September 7, 2011 by zrooster99

[matmacwc]

(besides zoomies) And for that one E-9 who does know the Third Verse, does he know that it is sung to a different tune?

It's about booze.

[sky_king]

(besides zoomies) And for that one E-9 who does know the Third Verse, does he know that it is sung to a different tune?

I just keep yelling "Give 'er the Gun!" at random points. With enough enthusiasm and confidence, anyone will believe anything.

[OBOBs_11]

They won’t see the countless hours on post or our “hot & dirty” maintainers turning wrenches on the flight line.

Our visitors will see very few Airman in the trenches. They’ll drive by and see people walking about. Their uniforms and personal grooming will speak for the wing as well. Good or bad…uniform wear is also a voice. The way we’re represented will speak for our entire service…especially if the viewing party is a coalition leader or US Government official.

Oh wait; time out bad guys!! I got Aziz's blood on my ABU jacket; let me just go get a clean one or find a Tide stain pen so I can continue fighting. Okay time in bad guys!

Thanks for that pic. Its been tweaked a bit STS:

My turn.

I was back home not too long ago and somehow ended up chatting with a few gents that just happened to be elected officials. At one point, we chatted about the military. Want to guess what impresses them? I ain't no creed, chant, or cheer. They see right through that shit! Its the personal stories and seeing our guys in action. Take some of them out on a range and show them a team taking on the "enemy" and they just beam with pride. Tell them a story like the "Pedros" rescue, and they'll eat that morning noon and night for a month. Listen to them in their speeches. They never say, I went to base x and all the airmen chanted a creed and sang a song. No, they pull the personal connection string, "Let me tell you about SrA Joe Somebody, he's a real hero." Dogs and miniature horses shows are a waste of everyone's time. There are so many other great ways to tell a story of our efforts and not one of them involves a chant or song. Besides, looking a little disheveled adds to our true salty nature. There's a reason why Americans love the Dirty Dozen and any other scrappy team.

So, to our deployed command chief, I offer this viewpoint. Make mission first. When a codel shows up, show them people doing the mission. Let them step on a hot, dirty Herk as maintainers are getting her ready for a mission. Show them EOD taking care of business. Let them sit down for chow in the main room (not the special little room) with everyday joes. You get the point. When they leave, they will have seen the mission and gotten a few personal stories to tell their constituents. Lastly, since when is it the job of the US Military to please and stroke politicians? I thought it was to fight wars or do some of that Constitutional defending stuff. Reciting a chant will not protect the defense budget.

Now that everyone is doing mission first, there's no need to recite any songs or chants. However, I will offer this about the chant. If it was such a great and inspiring piece of literature, people would want to know it more that the latest Katy Perry song.

Lastly, I will end with some leadership. It stuff like this that makes my job essential. And that is to reset the priorities of those I work for, but more importantly, those that work with me.

Out

I think this explains why people like Katy Perry's (or maybe just her) songs so much:

In all seriousness I do agree with disgruntledemployee, and I agree with going after this dude's boss too for letting this crap happen.

Also +1 for tits.

[SocialD]

Quote from the AF Times forum that is actually an answer to the original question in this thread:

I once personally had a troop that was not paid for over 5 MONTHS (I was completely embarrassed for myself and my peers because the stripes I wear could do nothing to fix it).

WOW, this just amazes me! How can things get that screwed up?!? After two paychecks, and zero progress, I would have walked into the WG/CC office and explained my situation. Saw that happen once...holy crap did this piss some people off, but the problem got fixed immediately. Or he could have gone the other route and file an IG complaint....that tends to get peoples attention!

Edited September 8, 2011 by SocialD

[HercDude]

Is anyone on here currently stationed with Chief Doucherocket? The lack of posts here and the Military Times forum (took me 3 days to get to the end!) from dudes there - except for some kiss ass 1st Shirt - makes me think they got put under a gag order of some sort.

And for your enjoyment, what appears to be another 386EAW/All email:

ASAB Team,

While out and about this afternoon I ran into a young SFS Airman posted in Fox-1 that I knew from a few years back at RAF Lakenheath.

His dad and I coached the HS football teams there and he assisted with the Wide-outs and D-Backs. We began talking about a certain player on the JV team who really made an impact on all of us in 2008. So I told A1C XXXXXX that Id send-out the story I wrote about that very special player back in 2009…and will also provide a great post-script based on what he passed on to me today.

FINDING THE ENIGMA

While stationed at RAF Lakenheath England in 2008 I was blessed with an incredible opportunity to coach High School football. I was initially interviewed for the line and linebacker coaching positions, since Id played at those spots for many years; including Semi-Pro seasons in Texas and USAF Football in Germany in the late 80s.

I soon became the oldest coach on the staff, so the others would jokingly ask me about the leather helmets we wore in the olden days or if I had a hard time adjusting once the forward pass became legal. No doubt, we definitely had fun as a coaching staff off the field - but on the field it was all business. When pre-season practices finally began, we had roughly 80 student-athletes of every size, shape, and capability trying-out for football. Some kids decided early-on that football wasnt their cup of tea. Others waited a week before calling it quits. But the majority pushed through the two weeks of conditioning and fervently tried to earn JV or Varsity roster spots.

Sometime after the two-week skill-building period, a pair of brothers named Adam and Daniel showed-up to compete for JV positions. Theyd been visiting their dad in the states and missed most of the developmental workouts, so they were both at a noticeable disadvantage. Xxxxxx, the older and bigger of the two boys, could likely play as a lineman, so we agreed to give him a shot there. Xxxx on the other hand was a freshman who was five-foot-two and about a hundred and twenty pounds. Hed never played football before, so most of the coaches were concerned that hed be a liability on the field and could be a danger to himself.

There was talk of cutting Xxxx based on the coaching staffs initial assessments, but I wasnt so sure that cutting him was the right move. I noticed that he had good speed, non-stop hustle, and a decent nose for the ball, so I told my fellow coaches that he could compete for a special teams spot if we worked on his football fundamentals first. No one agreed with my assessments. But I persisted until the other coaches finally made a huge concession. They said I could keep Adam on the JV roster, but only if I took him on as a lineman. It wasnt a joke, and there wasnt a punch line it was all business. I said Ill take him and instantly realized that Id just recruited a five-foot-two, hundred and twenty pound lineman who lacked most of the traditional football skills and attributes we wanted. Wow, that was something I didnt see coming, but I felt it was the right thing to do.

So, over the next few weeks we worked on Xxxxxs techniques and I could actually see him gaining in skill and confidence as the days went by. Finally, just a few hurdles remained before he could take a legitimate shot at a permanent roster position. One of those hurdles was getting him into some live-fire evaluations and let him hit and be hit without any restrictions. It was a bit scary when we decided to let Xxxx face our first-string offensive linemen because some of them had played for years and outweighed him by 90 pounds. Many of us were a bit worried that Xxxx would get crushed on his first set of downs, but were instantly amazed when he started to make tackle after tackle with perfect technique. We all looked at each other in disbelief. How could this brand-new player who stood five-foot-nothing and barely weighed a buck-and-a-quarter be doing what Xxxx was doing? It must be a fluke. So the other coaches egged-on the starting offensive linemen to man-up and keep Xxxx out of the backfield. No such luck. Xxxx kept readjusting to blocks and hustled on every single play. It was really something worth watching, so I kept him out there every day that week.

By the end of the week, one of the other coaches had given Xxxx a new nickname. He dubbed Xxxx the enigma because he was a mystery who raised a lot of eyebrows. Within two weeks, Xxxx had earned a permanent roster spot and was selected as one of the 28 JV players whod travel for our away-games in Germany. By seasons end, Xxxx would become a starter, earn the JVs most-improved player award, and would ultimately redefine what a defensive lineman looked like.

No doubt - the enigma had made a profound impact on his team in more ways than one. He caused coaches to look beyond face value and search for something deeper than the outward appearance or traditional background of a player. He also caused his fellow players to look at their own lives and realize that they may have previously limited themselves because of defeatist attitudes or a simple lack of desire. Finally, he reaffirmed my belief that many gifted people just need to be discovered, coached, and then given opportunities to compete and succeed in their passions.

In closing; my hope is that wed all continually strive to find the enigma in every Airman. If we exploit the underlying capabilities of those who deeply desire a starting position, well help grow better wingmen, leaders, and warriors in the long run. So, if you havent already started looking for an enigma, begin some varsity try-outs today.

POST-SCRIPT: Xxxx went on to wrestle after that 2008 football season. His confidence was incredible. He ended up number 2 in his division at the European Championships even though that was his first year in that sport as well. He continued to play football in 2009 and 2010…improving his capability. He took the European Championships in wrestling in 2009 and went undefeated the following year. He is a Senior this year and still plays Lineman. Airman Xxxxs dad wanted me to know that Xxxx is a Beast on the football field and they expect to take the title this year…with him driving the defense. Not sure if hes still 5-foot-nothing…but I can guarantee you, hes got heart and drive.

Was glad to have visited Fox-1 today…and to have received that great report.

Edited September 8, 2011 by HercDude

[Login Name]

Dude I never said any of that crap you quoted me as saying....it was the E-9 we've been discussing...good on you though to post pics of boobs, otherwise your post was a complete fail

And for your enjoyment, what appears to be another 386EAW/All email:

With how many emails this dude sends out, he would quickly be put on auto delete.

[GovernmentMan]

Who sends out a Vol 3 worth of anecdotal and/or preachy spam, and expects anybody to actually read it, let alone take it to heart?

Faster/funnier, Chief. Don't let the message (on the off chance that it's actually useful) get burried in the other crap.

Edited September 8, 2011 by GovernmentMan

[Hercster]

Is anyone on here currently stationed with Chief Doucherocket? The lack of posts here and the Military Times forum (took me 3 days to get to the end!) from dudes there - except for some kiss ass 1st Shirt - makes me think they got put under a gag order of some sort.

I am, at least for the next couple weeks. I haven't heard anything about a gag order, but it's funny that everyone in the office is following this. I just think it's great that everyone is outraged. The higher ups probably know about this but are chosing to ignore it in hope it'll go away.

[sky_king]

Dear public EPR fodder,

While out and about this afternoon I ran into a young SFS Airman.

His dad and I coached the HS football teams.

I was blessed with an opportunity to coach High School football.

I soon became the oldest coach on the staff.

A pair of brothers named Adam and Daniel showed-up to compete for JV positions.

There was talk of “cutting” Xxxx based on the coaching staff’s initial assessments.

Over the next few weeks we worked on Xxxxx’s techniques.

Within two weeks, Xxxx had earned a permanent roster spot.

He caused coaches to look beyond face value and search for something deeper than the outward appearance.

My hope is that we’d all continually strive to find “the enigma” in every Airman.

ps. Xxxx went on to wrestle after that 2008 football season.

Seriously, this guy has spent too much time writing papers for TUIU or something. With half a sentence from each paragraph, I still get the point. Hell, he could have said, "A kid I knew tried out for football but didn't make the cut. He practiced and finally made it."

It's emails like this that force me to create a new auto-delete rule.

[OBOBs_11]

Dude I never said any of that crap you quoted me as saying....it was the E-9 we've been discussing...good on you though to post pics of boobs, otherwise your post was a complete fail

With how many emails this dude sends out, he would quickly be put on auto delete.

I know that it was the E9 that we have been talking about. I just took out everything cause it was a long post and only put the shit I wanted to make fun of on there. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Guest]

...since I’d played at those spots for many years; including Semi-Pro seasons in Texas and USAF Football in Germany in the late ‘80’s.

If this is true, depending on when he was there, I likely hit him hard enough to make the fucking snot blow out of his nose and his cleats come off at least once.

I sure hope so.

[Nasalradiator]

Great thread. Thought you guys might like this article about the Navy's side of the dysfunctional DOD family. This is the first time in my 9 years that I've seen someone above the O-4 level write about how FUBAR Naval Aviation has become. Written by no less than a former Secretary of the Navy.

https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2011-09/naval-aviation-culture-dead

[ASUPilot]

Great thread. Thought you guys might like this article about the Navy's side of the dysfunctional DOD family. This is the first time in my 9 years that I've seen someone above the O-4 level write about how FUBAR Naval Aviation has become. Written by no less than a former Secretary of the Navy.

https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2011-09/naval-aviation-culture-dead

Much of the erosion of history, heritage and comradery can be attributed to the abomination that is political correctness. Adam Corolla's new book: "In Fifty Years We'll All Be Chicks: . . . And Other Complaints from an Angry Middle-Aged White Guy" hits the nail on the proverbial head. It's not quite as low-brow as one may think.

[Guest]

Much of the erosion of history, heritage and comradery can be attributed to...

Edited September 8, 2011 by Rainman A-10

[ASUPilot]

SEE YOU NEXT TUESDAY.

[Catbox]

Hey man...knock it off with the NSFW hot T&A stuff.

[discus]

A reply from a SMSgt friend of mine who I hope like hell makes chief one day. I sent him a copy of the E-9's E-Mail and asked him what his first thought was on it. This is the response I got back:

You gotta be fucking kidding me! He wasted brain cells and resources on this? Granted, i know the creed and song but thats me... Mandating everyone knows it, establishing ROEs for it, and potentially calling people out (at random) to recite them is assinine.

So if the maintainer who just finished a 12 hr shift, is covered in fluids, dirt and grime or the aircre member who just finished a lengthhy sortie, or convoy troop who just avoided getting his ass shot off will be penalized for not know this at the whim of the Chief or CC is "less than professional" than say, a PERSCO troop? Give me a break...

I am and always have been a team player and advocate for mentorship and development, but I feel this is a clear case of "I wanna make my mark on the deployment while I am "the boss" to ensure I get my Bronze star".

I feel if You are a "Wingman"...roll up your sleeves Chief and help change that engine, help refuel that jet, push that pallet, ensure that A1C Snuffy gets to lunch or some time off and don't ever "Leave an Airman Behind".

The song you preach is company fodder....Lead by example, get out, get engaged and get out of the book and into reality...Our folks work hard 24/7-365.... The DO NOT need to be subject to Gestapo type interigation regarding the Creed and Song....

My two cents.....

..

P.S. He proudly wears a Maintenance badge. It seems like 99% of the problems in the SNCO corps are non-maintainers.

[Login Name]

P.S. He proudly wears a Maintenance badge. It seems like 99% of the problems in the SNCO corps are non-maintainers.

Fact...those problems all come from NSPMF's.

[backseatdriver]

Great thread. Thought you guys might like this article about the Navy's side of the dysfunctional DOD family. This is the first time in my 9 years that I've seen someone above the O-4 level write about how FUBAR Naval Aviation has become. Written by no less than a former Secretary of the Navy.

https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2011-09/naval-aviation-culture-dead

Awesome article & commentary.