What's wrong with the Air Force?

[Liquid]

I, as well as most people here, think the CSAF is truly a great leader however his hand was forced with regard to this topic. As he's sitting in front of Congress getting grilled about the Lackland scandals, the 1C0 TSgt at Shaw, the SAPR Chief being arrested, etc. He really didn't have a choice in the matter with all of the mounting political pressure.

Do you honestly believe, especially since he is a fighter pilot, that he would force his Commanders to make the changes like ones listed in the policy letter, had all of those events I listed not happened with a small time period? I'm not sure he would've.

Really? He wouldn't have betrayed his sacred traditions if someone didn't make him because of a string of incidents? He knows, deeply knows, these traditions are not good for our AF and that they must change. He told me and I believe him. Don't blame others for his actions.

[F-15E WSO]

Fuck your perspectives Liquid.

Eat Fuck Kill.

Warriors should work hard at their craft of killing. If the by-product of such work and blood lust offends those who aren't a part of it, I don't give a shit.

I expect my brotherhood to dominate the battlespace through their efforts and awesomeness. The enemy of my clan should sleep poorly, knowing great Americans are working their assess off to sharpen their sword, and those of their teammates.

Our existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives!

Careerism, and focusing on the wrong (non-tactical) things weakens our ability to kill and survive. We may beat our chests like animals, and play games we're in middle school, and that's ok in my mind. I like tits and ass. I like to talk about it. Bright, shiny objects get my attention.

My plan is to destroy the target, bring the package home in one piece, and procreate like a rock star so my sons can grow, get strong, and prepare for their enemy. Peace is for pussies and hippies.

Left to their own devices, a fighter squadron will fucking dominate. I want that, and so should you. We should have a few shiny pennies, who make some rank, and play on the the strategic, political field. I don't need that stifling shit in the squadron, or at the merge.

[Liquid]

Liquid,

The death of the fighter pilot culture is destroying the morale and brotherhood in fighter squadrons. Being a fighter pilot used to be a lifestyle, but you and those like you have reduced it to simply being another job. Roll calls and bar stories are dying, because everyone knows that it isn't safe to hang out there. All the informal learning that used to happen over beer/scotch is dying too, so yes our culture did make us better at our jobs.

When you see retention numbers drop in the next few years, I'm sure you'll point to some other factor, but I won't be staying one day past my ADSC.

Too bad. Our nation needs talented and dedicated pilots to defend us. It is a shame that you don't want to continue to serve. Perhaps our next generation of fighter pilots won't be so willing to stop serving when their commitments are up. I hope we don't destroy the morale and brotherhood in fighter squadrons. I don't think we will.

###### your perspectives Liquid.

Eat ###### Kill.

Warriors should work hard at their craft of killing. If the by-product of such work and blood lust offends those who aren't a part of it, I don't give a shit.

I expect my brotherhood to dominate the battlespace through their efforts and awesomeness. The enemy of my clan should sleep poorly, knowing great Americans are working their assess off to sharpen their sword, and those of their teammates.

Our existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives!

Careerism, and focusing on the wrong (non-tactical) things weakens our ability to kill and survive. We may beat our chests like animals, and play games we're in middle school, and that's ok in my mind. I like tits and ass. I like to talk about it. Bright, shiny objects get my attention.

My plan is to destroy the target, bring the package home in one piece, and procreate like a rock star so my sons can grow, get strong, and prepare for their enemy. Peace is for pussies and hippies.

Left to their own devices, a fighter squadron will ######ing dominate. I want that, and so should you. We should have a few shiny pennies, who make some rank, and play on the the strategic, political field. I don't need that stifling shit in the squadron, or at the merge.

Do you really think you and the community you say you represent are the only ones who know how to kill and how to create a force that effectively kills in the manner directed by our national leadership?

Edited September 30, 2013 by Liquid

[magnetfreezer]

Nobody is going after offensiveness, just sexual harassment and sexual assault. A Sq/CC put out a memo defining expectations and it caused interesting comments from this crowd. Stop using a slippery slope argument about burgers to justify behavior that is clearly out of bounds.

I didn't see anything about harassment in that memo - beyond that banning all the offensive stuff is supposed to prevent it. If offensiveness is still tolerated, how come wing direction a few months ago was to stop using KIA/EKIA in awards/OPR bullets?

You hope not to destroy the morale and tradition of the CAF, and everyone on here is giving you front line advice on how not to.

Do you really think you and the community you say you represent are the only ones who know how to kill and how to create a force that effectively kills in the manner directed by our national leadership?

í

Who are the others?

[Liquid]

I didn't see anything about harassment in that memo - beyond that banning all the offensive stuff is supposed to prevent it. If offensiveness is still tolerated, how come wing direction a few months ago was to stop using KIA/EKIA in awards/OPR bullets?

You hope not to destroy the morale and tradition of the CAF, and everyone on here is giving you front line advice on how not to.

í

Who are the others?

You seriously don't know? Incredible.

[pawnman]

Too bad. Our nation needs talented and dedicated pilots to defend us. It is a shame that you don't want to continue to serve. Perhaps our next generation of fighter pilots won't be so willing to stop serving when their commitments are up. I hope we don't destroy the morale and brotherhood in fighter squadrons. I don't think we will.

Do you really think you and the community you say you represent are the only ones who know how to kill and how to create a force that effectively kills in the manner directed by our national leadership?

As I told you in the bonus thread, maybe you and the rest of leadership should be asking yourselves what policy decisions you are making that are driving away so many talented, experienced pilots that you have to throw hundreds of thousands of dollars at them to get them to stay, when they have a job 99% of Americans would give their left nut to do for free.

The point is there seems to be a lot of attention being paid to a very small part of what is causing actual problems. Is my using "69" in a sentence causing Congressional-level problems? Certainly not. What's causing the big problems, and what is unacceptable, is actual, no-shit sexual assault and harassment. I know you know the difference. Let's focus our limited amount of fire and brimstone on dudes who are actually hurting their fellow airmen and save the "counseling" for those inappropriately using 69 for the squadron-level leaders if they find it to be a problem in their squadrons. Threatening paperwork in an emailed memo is weak dick leadership and reeks of a witch hunt waiting to happen.

Are "69," "so to speak," etc. somewhat unprofessional, probably, but then again I never was one harping on that professionalism should be the highest priority we pursue. Way too often those advocating that we act "professionally" in all circumstances are "funges" (fun-sponges) who are worried about CYA, their next promotion, and catering to the most easily-offended person imaginable.

Can we start judging professionalism based on how we perform the mission and take care of our people rather than how often we use 69 and go out and drink on the weekend? I thought we were supposed to be professional mission-hackers and leaders of war fighters, not professional golden-boy Ward Cleavers.

If you can't fix the problem, do something you can show off to your boss instead.

I'm curious...how are the numbers of sexual assaults looking two years into the great inquisition? Has the crackdown on callsigns and "so to speaks" reduced the number of real sexual assaults?

[Disco_Nav963]

Why would you love to see this? To show we are wasting our time addressing these issues? The MSG and MXG don't need to release MFRs that say don't use sexual innuendo, inappropriate call signs, explicit lyrics and early afternoon drinking. Their enlisted and officer leadership does not tolerate it. Some in the Ops Group do. The Ops Group has a ridiculously larger number of officers than the other groups and a much smaller number of young enlisted, so there are fewer discipline incidents. So what is your point? Commanders shouldn't release memos like this or talk about this because the ops group never commits sexual harassment/assault crimes?

Because perhaps it shows that our sexual assault problem stems from environments disproportionately filled with young men and women living away from home for the first time, not a smaller body of professionals who are disproportionately older, more educated, married, and who happen to enjoy a little off-color humor and early afternoon drinking. The thinking of the so-called leaders mentioned in this thread is truly Underwear Gnome logic:

1. Curb the double-entendres in flying squadrons.

2. ???

3. Reduction in "unwanted sexual contact" among junior enlisted members.

Before the PR kerfuffle over military sexual assaults started, I suppose, about 18 months ago I actually bragged to my civilian friends about how extensive our efforts were in that area, relative to higher ed: i.e. the big push to educate people about their reporting options, the existence of restricted reporting, the SARC program, the mandatory pre-deployment briefings, etc. Could things still be improved on? Sure. Is any sexual assault/harassment "acceptable"? Of course not. Will we ever get to zero? No way Jose. But IMO what we have here are a body of leaders who are either making uncontextualized conclusions about the prevalence of the problem based on their emotional reaction to specific cases or The Invisible War (and hasty generalization of anecdotal evidence is one of the classic logical fallacies), or they actually know that there isn't much more they can do and are simply doing something visible because they won't get to the next rank by not being a team player. It reminds me of nav school, where when the Friday safety briefs weren't quite enough to keep one or two of the four hundred mostly 22-26 year olds from making bad alcohol/driving decisions, everybody got to sit in the Taj Mahal in service dress to hear how serious the leadership was.

I'm not going to lie and say that a substantive crackdown on fun at work would actually make me get out short of 20 years... I'm an economic realist. But I don't have to be happy about it, or pretend the Air Force wasn't once a much better place to come to work.

[Liquid]

Pawnman, the culture change and emphasis on treating everyone with dignity and respect has made a big difference. I have had many men and women, of all ranks, directly tell me how happy they are with this new message. Our message is a good one and it puzzles me how many disagree with it. To most, the policies to specifically prohibit "Buster Cherry" or "Heywood Djablome" on flight suit name tags, porn in the vault or sexist word games, are common sense. The maintenance community is working to change the sexist culture, language and traditions on the flight line as well, but they have SNCO and CMSgt buy in so it won't take long.

Unrestricted reporting of sexual assaults is up and restricted reporting is down. That is a good thing. The victims feel confident that their senior leadership will do the right thing. Maybe this very public change of culture has made some victims more confident. Regardless, the small portion of the culture that valued stupid sex jokes and games needed to change. Whether or not fewer assaults are occurring is difficult to know since so many are unreported. I think we are moving in the right direction.

[nsplayr]

The slides are trending green boys, all is well and we're moving in the right direction!

Seriously...if there is less sexual assault, great, but you're missing the point that the professionalism crusade is yet another reason your line flyers are less happy with what should be an awesome job than they once were.

Doubt it will make a difference since we're all numbers on a spreadsheet and there are plenty of young bucks hoping and praying to be among those numbers one day. But hey, I'm assuming you come here to hear the real deal of what the typical O-2 to O-5 line flyer thinks so hopefully at least some of it is getting through loud and clear...morale is not high and it's things like this that continue to keep it down.

[Liquid]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QaqpoeVgr8U&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DQaqpoeVgr8U

This is a leader I respect and a message I believe in.

[BitteEinBit]

Why would you love to see this? To show we are wasting our time addressing these issues? The MSG and MXG don't need to release MFRs that say don't use sexual innuendo, inappropriate call signs, explicit lyrics and early afternoon drinking. Their enlisted and officer leadership does not tolerate it.

Yes, MSG and MSG don't tolerate this! There are no sexual assault or sexual harassment issues in those groups. You bring up a great point...we should immediately stop using fighter pilots to train new recruits at basic training, since those issues are what put us in the spotlight in the first place. You fighter pilots can no longer be drill instructors....you're fucking fired!

The MSG and MXG don't need to release MFRs because their E and Os dont tolerate it??? Are you fucking serious?!?! Yeah, they may not tolerate it, but it is apparent to me that maybe they should put out memos that say don't use sexual innuendos because this 'problem' is force wide...not just the small group of pilots. I think the CSAF realizes that too which is why he directed a force wide workplace clean up... By the way, I can't put pictures of this year's summer family vacation on my desk because someone is offended at my wife's bikini. Then stop fucking looking at my wife and stop going to the beach. I use pictures of my family at work to remind me that there is still some form of normalcy in my life. So she's wearing a bikini...that is normal to me.

Focusing on one group of people because they have 'traditions' that can be visibly eliminated and reported as 'action taken' is not going to fix the problem. No...not as long as you still sell those magazines in the BX that have women in bikinis and sell 'sexuality.' Not as long as you play sexually explicit movies at base movie theaters, not as long as you play sexually suggestive programs on AFN TV and radio (by the way, I learned 'that's what she said' on a program I watch on AFN). It is difficult to take leadership seriously when they selectively target eliminating sexuality in one place, but promote sexuality (ie sexual preference) in another place.

I think you know why we don't eliminate the magazines, TV programming, etc....because it would hurt morale. Morale of your people is what makes them more productive. The politicians who have never served a day in combat don't understand 'morale' in a war zone...nor do I expect them to. What helps MY morale in a potentially hostile, stressful situation like a combat zone are things like humor and jokes that lighten the situation. It may be a David Chappelle skit that makes jokes about race, it could be a movie like The Hangover that is sexually charged Vegas buffoonery. I'm not a fighter pilot, but I imagine those avenues of stress relief help relax at least one fighter pilot, and thus could potentiall make them better at their stressful job. I don't expect a REMF desk jockey in the MSG to understand that (not that their job is any less important...they just have a different type/level of stress). Just like I don't know what the snake eater SOF guy on the ground does to relieve his stress. I'm not expected to. Take away avenues of stress relief among your personnel, and you WILL see a drop in productivity....period. Does it make anyone a better pilot?? That kind of motivation is up to the individual. I would bet that in some cases it does.

No one is suggesting that we pat Airman Yummy Britches on the ass every time we see her at work. There is a great distinction between sexual harassment/assault in the workplace and the use of 69 or that's what she said. Sure, 69 could be offensive, but so are a lot of other things that aren't getting attention. You will offend at least one person 100% of the time in any given situation.

** sorry for long winded response...

[brewskis]

My friends that work at for profit companies laugh when I tell them the details of the sexual assault witch hunt.

We have so many problems as a service. Sexual Assault is one of them, no doubt. The problem is, we aren't attacking the causation of sexual assault. We think punishing the 99% that obey the current regs will keep the 1% of 'bad-guys' from engaging in rape, etc. I have my 4th SAPR brief of this year tomorrow. Is this going to tell me anything I don't know, or believe? No, it isn't. It also isn't going to change the behavior of the people that think rape or assault is acceptable. I really don't think making 69 illegal is going to change anyone's behavior, and I'll venture to say I think you are out of touch if you think it will.

Edited September 30, 2013 by brewskis

[pawnman]

Pawnman, the culture change and emphasis on treating everyone with dignity and respect has made a big difference. I have had many men and women, of all ranks, directly tell me how happy they are with this new message. Our message is a good one and it puzzles me how many disagree with it. To most, the policies to specifically prohibit "Buster Cherry" or "Heywood Djablome" on flight suit name tags, porn in the vault or sexist word games, are common sense. The maintenance community is working to change the sexist culture, language and traditions on the flight line as well, but they have SNCO and CMSgt buy in so it won't take long.

Unrestricted reporting of sexual assaults is up and restricted reporting is down. That is a good thing. The victims feel confident that their senior leadership will do the right thing. Maybe this very public change of culture has made some victims more confident. Regardless, the small portion of the culture that valued stupid sex jokes and games needed to change. Whether or not fewer assaults are occurring is difficult to know since so many are unreported. I think we are moving in the right direction.

Personally, I think this rapid cycling has shown victims that whether they have a real case or not, they can destroy the person they are out to destroy. No one wants to find someone not guilty of a sexual assault in the current climate, no matter how tenuous the evidence.

Someone else said it earlier...the AF is essentially telling us they want to run like any other company, where people come to work, exchange mild pleasantries at the water cooler, and go home. I think leadership is going to be shocked when they realize how much they have destroyed the camaraderie that we used to have by taking away things like roll calls, naming ceremonies, hell, names. Sure, we'll all be more professional, and we'll all be much less inclined to stay after our commitments, to stay late at work PERIOD, to hang out in the bar and mentor new guys.

Leadership wonders why people don't want to join the clubs anymore...well, they're about to wonder why no one is willing to stay late to wrap up mission planning for DACT sortie and would rather just min-run the upgrade programs until they can make their ADSC an work for an airline instead. You wondered aloud why the AF had to throw so much money at the fighter guys to stay, and I'm telling you loud and clear that this is one of the causes. I'm totally on-board with the idea we should do everything we can to stop sexual assaults...I just don't think giving guys LOCs for dick jokes around the squadron is solving the actual issue.

[Champ Kind]

the AF is essentially telling us they want to run like any other company, where people come to work, exchange mild pleasantries at the water cooler, and go home...Sure, we'll all be more professional, and we'll all be much less inclined to stay after our commitments, to stay late at work PERIOD, to hang out in the bar and mentor new guys.

Leadership wonders why people don't want to join the clubs anymore...well, they're about to wonder why no one is willing to stay late to wrap up mission planning for DACT sortie and would rather just min-run the upgrade programs until they can make their ADSC an work for an airline instead.

Already happening.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Champ Kind

[Liquid]

The slides are trending green boys, all is well and we're moving in the right direction!

Seriously...if there is less sexual assault, great, but you're missing the point that the professionalism crusade is yet another reason your line flyers are less happy with what should be an awesome job than they once were.

Doubt it will make a difference since we're all numbers on a spreadsheet and there are plenty of young bucks hoping and praying to be among those numbers one day. But hey, I'm assuming you come here to hear the real deal of what the typical O-2 to O-5 line flyer thinks so hopefully at least some of it is getting through loud and clear...morale is not high and it's things like this that continue to keep it down.

I hear you that morale is not high. I am really not on the discipline and professionalism crusade when it relates to complying any and all written guidance. Many policies are stupid and CSAF has directed you to not follow the stupid ones. Have the courage to identify them and get rid of them. Sexual harassment and hostile work environments are not stupid ones, and I have not been convinced by anyone in this forum that we need the traditions prohibited by the Sq CC memo.

I think morale patches are stupid and unprofessional, but I don't lose sleep over it. I told some idiot at the Dragon DFAC to take his naked lady silhouette patch off his ######ing arm. He did and we moved on. I rarely wore my reflective belt at BAF because I thought it was stupid. I chewed a pilot's ass for wearing a Yankees baseball hat when he stepped off the aircraft and shook the three stars hand who was welcoming him home. Not because I care if he wears a baseball hat when he flies, but because he was to damn stupid to know when to take it off. We definitely need to make sure our jobs are fun and rewarding. Happy to hear ideas how we can.

Yes, MSG and MSG don't tolerate this! There are no sexual assault or sexual harassment issues in those groups. You bring up a great point...we should immediately stop using fighter pilots to train new recruits at basic training, since those issues are what put us in the spotlight in the first place. You fighter pilots can no longer be drill instructors....you're ######ing fired!

The MSG and MXG don't need to release MFRs because their E and Os dont tolerate it??? Are you ######ing serious?!?! Yeah, they may not tolerate it, but it is apparent to me that maybe they should put out memos that say don't use sexual innuendos because this 'problem' is force wide...not just the small group of pilots. I think the CSAF realizes that too which is why he directed a force wide workplace clean up... By the way, I can't put pictures of this year's summer family vacation on my desk because someone is offended at my wife's bikini. Then stop ######ing looking at my wife and stop going to the beach. I use pictures of my family at work to remind me that there is still some form of normalcy in my life. So she's wearing a bikini...that is normal to me.

Focusing on one group of people because they have 'traditions' that can be visibly eliminated and reported as 'action taken' is not going to fix the problem. No...not as long as you still sell those magazines in the BX that have women in bikinis and sell 'sexuality.' Not as long as you play sexually explicit movies at base movie theaters, not as long as you play sexually suggestive programs on AFN TV and radio (by the way, I learned 'that's what she said' on a program I watch on AFN). It is difficult to take leadership seriously when they selectively target eliminating sexuality in one place, but promote sexuality (ie sexual preference) in another place.

I think you know why we don't eliminate the magazines, TV programming, etc....because it would hurt morale. Morale of your people is what makes them more productive. The politicians who have never served a day in combat don't understand 'morale' in a war zone...nor do I expect them to. What helps MY morale in a potentially hostile, stressful situation like a combat zone are things like humor and jokes that lighten the situation. It may be a David Chappelle skit that makes jokes about race, it could be a movie like The Hangover that is sexually charged Vegas buffoonery. I'm not a fighter pilot, but I imagine those avenues of stress relief help relax at least one fighter pilot, and thus could potentiall make them better at their stressful job. I don't expect a REMF desk jockey in the MSG to understand that (not that their job is any less important...they just have a different type/level of stress). Just like I don't know what the snake eater SOF guy on the ground does to relieve his stress. I'm not expected to. Take away avenues of stress relief among your personnel, and you WILL see a drop in productivity....period. Does it make anyone a better pilot?? That kind of motivation is up to the individual. I would bet that in some cases it does.

No one is suggesting that we pat Airman Yummy Britches on the ass every time we see her at work. There is a great distinction between sexual harassment/assault in the workplace and the use of 69 or that's what she said. Sure, 69 could be offensive, but so are a lot of other things that aren't getting attention. You will offend at least one person 100% of the time in any given situation.

** sorry for long winded response...

Sorry I wasn't more clear. MSG and MXG don't need a memo saying your callsigns shouldn't have sexual innuendos, the number 69 shouldn't be used to make sex jokes and the beer light shouldn't be turned on too early. They need plenty of guidance and mentoring on how to address the problems of sexual harassment, hostile work environments and sexual assault.

The focus isn't only on fighter pilots, everyone is getting the message.

There is a difference between your personal entertainment (BX products) and what you do,say, watch and read at work.

[brewskis]

Happy to hear ideas how we can.

Stop the witch hunts. Prosecute the perpetrators of legitimate sexual assaults to the maximum extent possible within the UCMJ. Make an example out of the assholes that are doing it. Hold the guilty accountable, and any leadership that allowed it to happen. Don't treat the 99% of military members like they are in high school. You'll be surprised at the results.

[17D_guy]

Yes, MSG and MSG don't tolerate this! There are no sexual assault or sexual harassment issues in those groups...

Well, in the MSG singing songs of those type, drinking at work at all, or crude name aren't tolerated. Of course there's still the knuckleheads who think calling names/grabbing SrA Yummybritches is ok. Any they get handled, quickly. There's no "that's what she said" or "69" or the "cranium" bullshit. It degrades our fellow Airmen, which impedes our mission.

We don't tolerate that shit. I've never had a commander that did. It was understood, and there didn't require a MFR. MFR's are to show that it was briefed and understood, so that after someone does it you can show proof of "leadership" instead of having the offender run to the ADC for help after they get slammed. It's for clarity, if you don't like it, that's ok.

[nsplayr]

I hear you that morale is not high. I am really not on the discipline and professionalism crusade when it relates to complying any and all written guidance. Many policies are stupid and CSAF has directed you to not follow the stupid ones. Have the courage to identify them and get rid of them.

That's good to hear at least. Can't wait for this last part to be ops tested...my personal favs are sock color and tucking in your PT t-shirt while running. A) my socks are exactly as visible as my underwear while in uniform...IMHO out of the purview of regulation by "The Man." B) tucking in your shirt while running is the stupidest thing on earth and especially when our mandatory PT shirts somehow trap heat like a greenhouse. I look forward to my leadership having my back when I continue to disregard those stupid regulations and advocate for them to be changed in the AFIs.

Sexual harassment and hostile work environments are not stupid ones, and I have not been convinced by anyone in this forum that we need the traditions prohibited by the Sq CC memo.

It's not that any of that specific behavior is specifically necessary or defensible, it's not. My point is that war fighters are not robots and they are not Ward Cleaver. Threatening paperwork on an officer is basically telling him, "Your career will end if you do XX" and I don't think a 69 joke or saying "so to speak" warrants that level of action. If leadership is so hard up to get rid of this stuff, so to speak, then LEAD and counsel your people in person about why their specific behavior isn't cutting it; leave the emailed threats of paperwork to the manager-shoe clerks we all rightfully deride.

I think morale patches are stupid and unprofessional, but I don't lose sleep over it. I told some idiot at the Dragon DFAC to take his naked lady silhouette patch off his ######ing arm. He did and we moved on. I rarely wore my reflective belt at BAF because I thought it was stupid. I chewed a pilot's ass for wearing a Yankees baseball hat when he stepped off the aircraft and shook the three stars hand who was welcoming him home. Not because I care if he wears a baseball hat when he flies, but because he was to damn stupid to know when to take it off. We definitely need to make sure our jobs are fun and rewarding. Happy to hear ideas how we can.

Those are all reasonable things, but just be aware that when High Command even hints that there is a potential witch hunt in the works, shoe clerks at lower levels often take it upon themselves to "be more restrictive than the parent regulation" in a manner of speaking. If you're the Boss at HQ and you're not losing sleep over morale patches, rest assured some E-9 or MSG (or Shoe-Pilot) O-5 is and will be kicking your war fighters in the balls for something you're not particularly concerned with because their perception is that "the hunt is on."

As for suggestions as to how to improve morale, I offer up the following:

1. Don't blow smoke or BS people when you're the Commander - tell them straight up every time, even when it's bad news. Let lower-level leaders and bros polish the turd, just serve it straight up when you're the CC. Not rosy predictions either, expectations management is key.

2. Let flyers fly and think about flying - reduce BS to the lowest possible level needed to maintain operations.

3. Let men and women be men and women - drinking is allowed if you're over 21, and honestly there can be less risk of stupidity when people drink in the O Club or the squadron bar than when they go out on the town. As someone else mentioned, people used to go to the O Club because a certain level of debauchery was allowed. I've love to party in the squadron bar but it's pretty clear that, in the wise words of Admiral Ackbar, "It's a trap!"

4. Keep traditions alive - AFSOC example here, but the Commando Hat is specifically allowed in the AFI, let's wear them on Fridays because why the hell not. Same goes for morale shirts, patches on ABUs for our MXG/MSG/MDG brethren, etc. What is the harm?

5. Actually follow through with the CSAF's direction that line troops often know what is up and to empower them to make decisions. De-centralized execution and trust are key.

Just spitballin' here but that's what I came up off the top with from the O-3 crew dawg perspective.

Edited September 30, 2013 by nsplayr

[brewskis]

Well, in the MSG singing songs of those type, drinking at work at all, or crude name aren't tolerated. Of course there's still the knuckleheads who think calling names/grabbing SrA Yummybritches is ok. Any they get handled, quickly. There's no "that's what she said" or "69" or the "cranium" bullshit. It degrades our fellow Airmen, which impedes our mission.

So what you're saying is there is no link between workplace jokes and actual sexual assault...right?

[sixpack]

Lets all just turn into a bunch of tree hugging hippies that accommodate to the lowest common denominator. We shall love and cherish one another and ensure everyone has a chance to be great at whatever they want to do. We shall pander to everyone's feelings regardless of the effort it will take to accomplish. No stone will be unturned to ensure everybody believes we are in a happy shiny loving Air Force community. The feelings of all of our employees is priority #1!!!!

Forget that. We are in the military. We are here to kill people and break their shit. If you sign up with that realization then you should be able to tolerate some off color jokes and toilet humor. If not you picked the wrong career. Leadership needs to stop this downward spiral now before more people get out than what we can replace. It's coming sooner than they think.

Edited September 30, 2013 by sixpack

[TacAirCoug]

Oh, how the mighty have fallen. RIP, USAF.

[GearMonkey]

Well, in the MSG singing songs of those type, drinking at work at all, or crude name aren't tolerated.

I love how some people try and make it sound like pilots are all constantly drunk at work. In my, clearly biased, opinion informal Hanger Talks over a beer at the end of a long and productive duty day have a far greater positive mission impact than any Closed for Training Wednesday ever has.

[Vetter]

God, I'm so glad I wasn't deemed worthy to continue in today's Air Force.

[BitteEinBit]

Well, in the MSG singing songs of those type, drinking at work at all, or crude name aren't tolerated. Of course there's still the knuckleheads who think calling names/grabbing SrA Yummybritches is ok. Any they get handled, quickly. There's no "that's what she said" or "69" or the "cranium" bullshit. It degrades our fellow Airmen, which impedes our mission.

We don't tolerate that shit. I've never had a commander that did. It was understood, and there didn't require a MFR. MFR's are to show that it was briefed and understood, so that after someone does it you can show proof of "leadership" instead of having the offender run to the ADC for help after they get slammed. It's for clarity, if you don't like it, that's ok.

I disagree. I worked at MSG and Wing staff and: YES, there was drinking at work after hours; YES, there were people saying "that's what she said"; and NO, it did not lead to sexual assaults or harassment while I was there. Perhaps in your corner of the world, it is not allowed, but in other corners of the world it is allowed in the MSG and Wing Staff. Certain organizations have traditions, others don't. Why are we trying to end squadron bars when it has not been shown to increase DUIs any more than drinking downtown? I'm not a fighter pilot so I don't "get" the "cranium" and "container" thing, but I don't have to...that is not my work environment. They do "get it" and having "traditions" like that helps their morale, so be it. I'm pretty sure people aren't groping and raping women because of it. The people who have and will grope women are going to do it whether I say "69" or not.

I'm sure in some COMM Sq somewhere in the world, there are jokes about Bytes and RAM and those guys think it is funny, while in my community we won't "get it." That is what we do, we try to have fun at work believe it or not. Studies have shown that productivity is directly tied to job satisfaction. When morale is high, productivity is high. Yes, I agree that degrading women (or men for that matter), discrimination, etc have no place ANYWHERE (not just work), but I just don't see how anything in that memo is offensive. I guess I have different standards of offensive material. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have "fun" at work if while flying an 8-hour oceanic crossing, all I had to talk about were AFIs, PME, and sock checks. Perhaps we can start to attribute CLASS A mishaps to the types of conversations we have in the cockpit...excuse me...flight deck...if we really want to drive the point home.

Seriously, what is the ultimate goal here? Are we trying to create a workplace environment where everyone goes to work and just talks about work, PME, AFIs and rules and then goes home for the day never to discuss anything from outside of work that could potentially offend someone? Good luck with that. I don't think you'll find that ANYWHERE in the world...except maybe Chinese or N Korean work camps.

Sexual harassment and assault are very distinct entities than from what we are talking about here. I don't see a cause and effect connection between the two. I'm sure that 96.9% (actual made-up statistic)posters on this board believe sexual assault and harassment are wrong and will never do it...yes, even with the Squadron Bar Photo of the day thread. I'm also sure that 99.6% of those who will commit some kind of sexual assault or harassment in the workplace will probably do it regardless of what is discussed at work.

Edited September 30, 2013 by BitteEinBit

[Lord Ratner]

The MSG and MXG don't need to release MFRs that say don't use sexual innuendo, inappropriate call signs, explicit lyrics and early afternoon drinking. Their enlisted and officer leadership does not tolerate it.

Everything you said, which I mostly disagreed with but still respected as valid, was undone right here. When's the last time you were around a group of maintainers? I've heard more horribly inappropriate shit come from maintainers, some even female, than any other group in the AF (except perhaps EOD). Whatever metric is being used to measure the problem, it's ######ed if someone actually believes the OGs have a bigger (rather than more visible) problem with SA/SH.

Here's the other side to the coin: Never in human history has the military operated this way. That doesn't mean it won't work, hell, I'd bet it will. But to me it's like the uniform battle. Every time an E-9 goes on a rant about pilots with their zippers down or maintainers with dirty boots or personnelists with jackets on indoors, they fall back on the "history" that the uniform represents and the "heritage" we are shitting on by wearing it "disrespectfully." Yet every picture I see of WWI and WWII looks like a competition for who can wear their hat funnier, or not at all. Vietnam vets could be seen wearing more than the required pieces of flair, if any uniform items at all. It's made up. They're using a fictional history to justify the new direction. Just like our current battle with SA/SH in the workplace.

There's no historical precedent for a non-sexualized military, so instead of attacking how fighter pilots (or whoever) have been doing it wrong all this time and we just "finally have a senior leader with the balls to confront it," be honest about it. Times have changed, and we have to change with them. The Captains and Majors complaining about having to change aren't to blame any more than the Colonels and Generals (now the ones telling them how stupid and offensive they are) are for doing it when they were captains and majors. But if you think our culture is worse than others, I challenge you to spend some time with an army unit living next door in Bagram. It may calibrate your expectations.

Sir.