Jump to content

What's wrong with the Air Force?

Catbox

By Catbox
in General Discussion

 Share

Recommended Posts

BONE WSO Crew Dawg

BONE WSO

Posted
Posted (edited)

Being charged with a DUI is not the same as being convicted of a DUI. If they parade you up in front of everyone in service dress it creates the impression that you are in fact guilty and could sway the potential jury members that are on that base. I'm sure a smart lawyer could bring this up at the trial, if it was on base, as unlawful command influence.

Edited by BONE WSO
  • Upvote 3
  • Replies 7.4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

Liquid
Liquid

Just as I would never trivialize the sacrifices or challenges our airmen faced in Vietnam or WWII, I would expect our officers to not trivialize the sacrifices and challenges our military has faced si

Liquid
Liquid

I'm deployed and busy. I still check the forum to see what's new. I'm tired of reading posts from whiners who continue to bitch and moan about not being required to get an AAD until Col. Drama quee

brickhistory
brickhistory

So the draft outline for the script for Top Gun 2 has leaked (probably Trump and/or Russians.  Same thing, right?):     "TOP GUN 2:  This Time It's Non-Gender Specific"   Having be

Posted Images

Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

What percentage of DUIs are actually received on base? I doubt the good people on jury duty at the municipal court watch punitive DUI parades on base.

Azimuth Gray Beard

Azimuth

Posted
Posted

Is it just me or do most guys you know actually rebound from a DUI to have a decent career. I know several that it was just a speed bump along the way for.

Officers? Nope. Enlisted? Yep.

Karl Hungus Gray Beard

Karl Hungus

Posted
Posted

That said (I'm just throwing a wild-ass guess out there), I think you'll be surprised that the WSJ or any other media outlet doesn't give a sh1t about stories headlined with "military officer thinks he's marching too much".

"Military officer thinks he's marching too much", of course not. "General Officer abuses power/people/resources in a time of extreme fiscal restraint", sure.

Azimuth Gray Beard

Azimuth

Posted
Posted

Incorrect, I know of a sitting wing/CC who got a DUI while we were in UPT.

It's not really incorrect when the original question was do "you" know of anyone...

  • Upvote 1
hispeed7721 Gray Beard

hispeed7721

Posted
Posted

So... what if on one of these "resilience days" we had a mass breifing like in the paragraph above with a little extra highlighting the financial costs associated with it? Better than destroying morale with a cluster###### formation. It's edutaining as well.

This is exactly what has happened at HRT in years past. The fire dept came in and gave a very honest and uncensored brief about DUI accidents (it vaguely reminded me of "faces of death").

There are a handful of people at HRT that I know of who've received a DUI and haven't been made to do anything other than get a verbal beating and carry on with their job (obviously paperwork/etc is transparent from the outside). Never has any individual or squadron been forced to form up/march/etc. IMHO there is ZERO gained from doing that, either in learning a legit lesson or true punishment.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

pawnman Gray Beard

pawnman

Posted
Posted

Incorrect, I know of a sitting wing/CC who got a DUI while we were in UPT.

I don't think that will happen in the days of RIF and force reductions and crack downs on all alcohol use. 20 years ago, when this guy was an LT, you probably could bounce back. I'm frankly surprised that with all the other ridiculous dredging of skeletons lately that this individual wasn't removed from command for his UPT mistake.

Dupe Gray Beard

Dupe

Posted
Posted (edited)

There are lots of people at the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and 60 Minutes that would love to hear these stories. If the IG doesn't work out... there are certainly other options.

Actually, I think this very forum and JQP have done a lot.

Simply having a publicly-facing vehicle to communicate and vent has been a great resource to commanders who are smart enough to harness its value.

As an example, I don't think there would have been some of the senior-level interventions during the Force Shaping fiasco had it not been for BO.net and JQP.

I don't think a Fogelsong can emerge as a MAJCOM/CC in an environment where blatant command buffoonery is now impossible to hide.

Edited by Dupe
Cap-10 Flight Lead

Cap-10

Posted
Posted

I know a now GO who got a DUI when he was an O-6 and was PCS'ing to his new assignment.

This was back in the mid 2000's.

Cap-10

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net iOS App!

schokie Flight Lead

schokie

Posted
Posted

I know a retired 4-star who got two DUIs during his career as well as was consistently "escorted" home by SFS many nights while a sitting Wg/CC.

Is this the same four star who was a recent AETC CC who was a prolific author on leadership for PME readings?

  • Upvote 1
stract Gray Beard

stract

Posted
Posted

ahhh, G-Lo. Mess up, fess up. Rumor was he was on the dean's other list 6 out of 8 semesters.

brickhistory Gray Beard

brickhistory

Posted
Posted

So the apparent answer to the question "Is a DUI recoverable?" is 'it depends.'

Be a fast burner with top cover, and, maybe. How public was the fcuk-up, who knows about it, etc, etc.

Be in the 80%, and I think not.

That was my observation during my career.

Cell Dweller Crew Dawg

Cell Dweller

Posted
Posted

Brick is right. If you are a top-tier, then you are perceived as being more valuable. Now, of course, one could question what are the latest criteria of "top-tier," but in general, the meritocracy favors the golden children. That being said, high strats also need to come with top-cover from leadership. I know a more recent example of someone who got a public drunkenness citation at UPT, burned bridges due to it, washed out, re-cored to a non-rated field, got great strats and a top notch record, but got the axe in a RIF. He never really had the top-cover from his senior rater or someone with access to his senior rater.

Also, most of the "DUI and salvaged career" stories that I hear are from old hats who knew of other old hats from back in the day (nothing newer than early 2000's, post 9/11). I would say at this instant in time, a DUI is going to be a career killer until the manpower situation turns around, and the service starts talking about increasing manning. Right now, even if units are crying for bodies, the flesh-peddlers at AFPC are cutting because the money is not there.

Cap-10 Flight Lead

Cap-10

Posted
Posted

Also know a guy who got charged with public intoxication after flipping off a cop...this was after he played the military card and the cop initially let him go.

In jail...over night...busted!

This was early in the T-38 phase, but he finished UPT and is now a CMR Pilot.

This was within the last year.

Cap-10

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net iOS App!

pawnman Gray Beard

pawnman

Posted
Posted

Also know a guy who got charged with public intoxication after flipping off a cop...this was after he played the military card and the cop initially let him go.

In jail...over night...busted!

This was early in the T-38 phase, but he finished UPT and is now a CMR Pilot.

This was within the last year.

Cap-10

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net iOS App!

And he'll probably stay a CMR pilot until his commitment is up, at which point he will be passed over for major and invited to leave.

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1
sputnik Gray Beard

sputnik

Posted
Posted

ahhh, G-Lo. Mess up, fess up. Rumor was he was on the dean's other list 6 out of 8 semesters.

Rumor confirmed with the man himself yesterday.

Failed 3 classes.

AnimalMother Flight Lead

AnimalMother

Posted
Posted

Also, most of the "DUI and salvaged career" stories that I hear are from old hats who knew of other old hats from back in the day (nothing newer than early 2000's, post 9/11). I would say at this instant in time, a DUI is going to be a career killer until the manpower situation turns around, and the service starts talking about increasing manning. Right now, even if units are crying for bodies, the flesh-peddlers at AFPC are cutting because the money is not there.

A dude in my last unit got a DUI in 2010. He got RIF'd the next year, picked up full time by the local reserve unit, upgraded to IP/EP, and promoted to major. Then he x-flowed to another airframe and got the AF to pay for his type and ATP. I'd say that's a pretty darn successful post-DUI career. I guess if you're trying to make O-6 then yes, a DUI might make that goal somewhat more difficult to obtain. It all depends on your criteria I suppose...

  • Upvote 1

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...