What's wrong with the Air Force?

[Karl Hungus]

Liquid has been quiet lately. Would be interesting to hear his thoughts on this BS.

[BitteEinBit]

Wow...what exactly is the alcohol ban and curfew supposed to accomplish. Why don't they just make a note saying "No DUIs allowed during your 24 month stay here in Korea." Better yet, why don't they eliminate sexual assault by posting a sign that says "No sexual assaults allowed while you are stationed in Korea." Are they expecting this to prevent an ARI (or whatever they call it these days)

Seriously...the intent is lost in the stupidity. Ok...looks like they might prevent the FNG from getting a DUI after 2200 his/her first 30 days in theater. How do you stop it the next 23 months?? Focus....focus....

[Cornholio5]

Saw this on JQ Public's page. Picture and associated comment sum up what is wrong with the Air Force. I also think the movie Idiocracy sums up the AF well. Big Blue is one giant self-licking ice cream cone.

[Blue]

like the gouge on getting free LinkedIn Premium

Really? Do tell...

[lloydbraun]

There's the "Preseparation counseling form" that is supposed to be filled out and ended up in my AFPC records, but when I separated no one checked the rest of the forms. The folks at AFRC said that you were required to outprocess through them, but MPF didn't give a s**t. I don't think they even looked for the preseparation counseling form. What are they going to do, recall you to AD?

Out of the weeklong TAP class about 30-45 minutes was useful, like the gouge on getting free LinkedIn Premium (you laugh, got 2 job offers that way, 1 of which I took...). The rest of the time I spent sitting in the back, surfing the net, and talking with the recruiters I'd been talking with before I went to TAP. And they were talking about how they were "getting" to add a 1-2 day "How to use the GI Bill" session because people kept jacking it up.

I figured that's the way TAP would be. Out of touch government civilians *teaching* me how to get a job. As it is now, I'm going to have to sacrifice post deployment reconstitution or lose leave to attend TAP.

[HercDude]

Curfew is also 10 PM for the first 30 days. What do they think people are going to do on day 31?

I had to take a crew of 35 (aircrew & Mx) to the AOR a couple months ago. My Sq leadership was scarred of having (another) alcohol incident on the road, so they instituted a new definition of the bottle-to-throttle rule: No consuming alcohol within 12 hours of ALERT. And they applied this to everyone on the trip, Mx included.

Fast forward through a 10 hour trip to St John's......Rolling back down to the hotel lobby 6.9 minutes after checking in, what do you think greeted me at the bar? 30 dudes pounding beer & whiskey like it was their job, on empty stomachs, staring at their watches, getting pissed as a fart.

Same situation I think. People don't realize that arbitrarily changing the rules doesn't actually address the problem.

[snoopyeast]

Things have changed.

Edited July 4, 2014 by snoopyeast

[Liquid]

I'm deployed and busy. I still check the forum to see what's new. I'm tired of reading posts from whiners who continue to bitch and moan about not being required to get an AAD until Col. Drama queens. I can't stand being around people who complain about stupid things and this forum is full of them. Hard to read sometimes, but there are enough witty insights to make it worth it.

This Korea alcohol thing is over the top. I think it is an unlawful order. Good order and discipline my ass. Some commanders have lost their minds with this "treat people like children" mentality of leadership. JQP's Camp Air Force article is spot on. I recommend you read it and apply it to your leadership style.

To those in this forum that aren't bitter, selfish, disillusioned crybabies, thank you for serving in the greatest AF this world has ever seen. It is a bloated bureaucracy (DMV with guns), with more chickenshit senior leaders and commanders and more stupid rules than it should have. But our Air Force kicks ass all over the world, enabling our nation to do the things it should be doing, killing those who need to be killed, and protecting those who need to be protected. We need competent, courageous and creative leaders at all levels, including every one of our officers. Quit your complaining and start leading. Or just quietly separate and go get that dream job where there are no stupid rules and bad leaders, so the rest of us can get to it.

edited to remove some profanity caused by my bad mood

Edited July 5, 2014 by Liquid

[Nineline]

This Korea alcohol thing is over the top bullshit. I think it is an unlawful order. Good order and discipline my ass. Some commanders have lost their f*ing minds with this "treat people like children" mentality of leadership. JQP's Camp Air Force article is spot on. I recommend you read it and apply it to your leadership style.

This! It's reassuring to see a senior leaders viewpoint that jives with common sense. Hit me up if you find yourself passing through Osan... The first round is on me. (Though, as long as it's not within the next 30 days of course.)

-9-

[matmacwc]

Thanks Liquid

[Smokin]

It is refreshing to hear that some senior leaders between us and the Chief see at least some things through the same lenses that us line pilots do. Makes me think there might be hope yet.

[nsplayr]

I figured that's the way TAP would be. Out of touch government civilians *teaching* me how to get a job. As it is now, I'm going to have to sacrifice post deployment reconstitution or lose leave to attend TAP.

The funniest part was that the folks helping me transition to a successful career outside the military were ORFs (old retired farts) who managed to land the prestigious civilian job of teaching TAP at Cannon AFB, NM.

Wow...with that shining example how could I not succeed?

Here's my (partial) solution: before TAP starts you do a 2-minute sit down with every person. If your two minute "what's your life plan" pitch passes a reasonableness test, you get the 2-hour gentleman's course where a VA rep will collect your claims paperwork and someone will discuss the finer points of the GI bill, gives you the free LinkedIn gouge, etc. and sends you on your merry way.

About 1/3 of the class could have been excused on day 1 and the folks working there could have spend more one-on-one time on the dude who's "plan" was to become a hippie.

Edited July 7, 2014 by nsplayr

[MD]

To those in this forum that aren't bitter, selfish, disillusioned crybabies, thank you for serving in the greatest AF this world has ever seen. It is a bloated bureaucracy (DMV with guns), with more chickenshit senior leaders and commanders and more stupid rules than it should have. But our Air Force kicks ass all over the world, enabling our nation to do the things it should be doing, killing those who need to be killed, and protecting those who need to be protected. We need competent, courageous and creative leaders at all levels, including every one of our officers. Quit your complaining and start leading. Or just quietly separate and go get that dream job where there are no stupid rules and bad leaders, so the rest of us can get to it.

I wouldn't necessarily equate rational criticism of problems and stupidity to automatically equal one being a "bitter, selfish, disillusioned crybaby", anymore than I'd label your or other ways of thinking to be kool aid drinking rah-rah lemming-speak. Sure, there are the actual crybabies, and sure there are the kool-aid brainless types; but I think overall both of the more moderate types of people on each side actually solve issues and come up with solutions for what is an AF that definitely isn't without problems (a good number of, in fact), even with the good things it has and offers.

[hindsight2020]

I wouldn't necessarily equate rational criticism of problems and stupidity to automatically equal one being a "bitter, selfish, disillusioned crybaby", anymore than I'd label your or other ways of thinking to be kool aid drinking rah-rah lemming-speak. Sure, there are the actual crybabies, and sure there are the kool-aid brainless types; but I think overall both of the more moderate types of people on each side actually solve issues and come up with solutions for what is an AF that definitely isn't without problems (a good number of, in fact), even with the good things it has and offers.

I stopped paying attention to Liquid's quitter-hate a while ago. I can only imagine the conniption he'd have regarding an expanding Air Force Reserve structure (per the congressional report 6 months ago) in the present active duty drawdown. You know, that organization of selfish quitters who vote with their feet every day with disgusting values such as homesteading, rejection of qweep, unapologetic preference of flying over any other duty as a prerequisite for deciding to show up at all, getting a second paycheck which is less important than their civilian one, and lastly, a community of politically incorrect brotherhood built upon relative lack of turnover, which makes active duty look like a bunch of fucking 3-level equivalent JCPenney cashiers on their second week on the job.

Yeah buddy, guys like him probably couldn't tell a Reservist from the Taliban judging by the traits he values. The people he decries as the problem are literally the preponderance of my recruits. And here's the sweet irony: Active Duty turns around and puts us in positions of flying support under the premise of higher aggregate experience retention we bring to the table.

[Liquid]

MD, good point. No automatic characterization intended. I agree that solving problems should be our focus. 2020, I can't tell a Reservist from the Taliban? F*ck off.

[Herk Driver]

2020, I can't tell a Reservist from the Taliban? F*ck off.

Short and to the point.

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

[Smokin]

... which makes active duty look like a bunch of fucking 3-level equivalent JCPenney cashiers on their second week on the job.

Pretty bold statement. I've worked with many reservists who are stuck in a 3-1 that is a decade old and couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. I've also worked with reservists who only fly the minimum BMC rates and can still crush the new patch straight from WIC. Making a blanket statement about either side of the force is absurd.

[brickhistory]

Quit your complaining and start leading.

One might state the obvious with a "you first."

But one is retired and thus a "quitter" because the giveash1t meter pegged simultaneously with the OLC to the tilting at windmills award.

[sqwatch]

One might state the obvious with a "you first."

But one is retired and thus a "quitter" because the giveash1t meter pegged simultaneously with the OLC to the tilting at windmills award.

"One" speaks only in the third person, which makes me believe you're too big a "game of thrones" fan, hammered, or reeling from liquid touching on a sore subject.

No one called retirees quitters but you.

Edited July 7, 2014 by sqwatch

[sqwatch]

and lastly, a community of politically incorrect brotherhood built upon relative lack of turnover, which makes active duty look like a bunch of ######ing 3-level equivalent JCPenney cashiers on their second week on the job.

Yeah buddy, guys like him probably couldn't tell a Reservist from the Taliban judging by the traits he values.

I did a three year guard tour flying vipers for TFAP or whatever they're calling it now. It didn't make me an expert on guard affairs, but it gave me an appreciation of a couple of the points you address- homesteading, a civilian job that is the priority during peacetime, and continuity due to lack of turnover. When it comes to the "band of brothers" type of camaraderie you allege, that isn't what I observed and frankly I think you're full of sh1t to downplay the bonds made on active duty. The demographics are younger on AD vs the guard, but my experience showed that they matched up pretty evenly on the dirtbag to pull-your-weight ratio.

There was plenty of this kind of "regaf" hate to go around- some of it was justified, and some of it fostered the rift between the two commands. It may have won the hearts of a couple disgruntled regaf recruits, if that's who you're targeting. When you make over the top statements statements like the Taliban quote above, what kind of message does that send?

Edited July 7, 2014 by sqwatch

[brickhistory]

"One" speaks only in the third person, which makes me believe you're too big a "game of thrones" fan, hammered, or reeling from liquid touching on a sore subject.

No one but you called retirees quitters but you.

Or one could simply disagree with the position and points made in the referenced post.

Much like I do with this one. The reference to a crappy show on a cable channel that I don't pay for, much less watch, seemed to not be relevant.

One can write in an older, more formal style freely. Not my problem if you don't like it.

So perhaps you, or even you as noted above, can differentiate between "quitters." The post I disliked did not.

Blanket statements draw blanket condemnation.

[matmacwc]

I've been in both, pluses and minuses to both. A lot stronger "band of brothers" in active duty, miss it a bit, see it on squadron TDYs sometimes. There is more opportunity in the ANG to venture outside the military but still stick around, more family time, more leaving the job at home. There is queep, just like AD, so don't think you are leaving that. Sqwatch had it right from the AD standpoint. As for flying, I think the ANG is mostly better, more flying and continuity, I average more than 10 a month in a Viper unit. However, the silverbacks can drag you down.

[sqwatch]

So perhaps you, or even you as noted above, can differentiate between "quitters." The post I disliked did not.

Touché. I'm all over the place this morning and am going to time out.

[chim richalds]

I would love to hear some examples of good "leadership" in the modern Air Force. If you say anything about blues Monday or morale patches I'm gonna come across the ing table.

[10percenttruth]

The reference to a crappy show on a cable channel that I don't pay for, much less watch, seemed to not be relevant.

You bite your tongue!