What's wrong with the Air Force?

[Liquid]

Chim,

There have been many recent leadership failures (AFPC, AFGSC, Lackland, etc) but there are plenty of examples of good leadership and great leaders. It is too bad you haven't been around any.

Maj Gen Greg Lengyl, Commandant of Cadets. MH-53 pilot brought common sense, warfighter focus and empowered leadership to AFA

Gen Robin Rand AETC. One of the finest, most selfless, professional, tactically savvy leaders in our AF. Led the 332 AEW in Iraq 2006-2007.

Gen Hostage, ACC. Incredible combat leader, one of the best COMACCs.

Maj Gen (sel) Pete Gersten. Transformed RPA lethality at Creech and on ACC staff at Langley

Gen Paul Selva, TRANSCOM. Selfless, honest, intelligent MAF leader.

Brig Gen (sel) Rick Rupp, McConnell Wing Commander. Led by putting Airmen first, awarded O'Malley Award in '13

Maj Gen Jeff Harrigian, CENTCOM DJ3, aggressive, creative Airman leading in a very Army centric command.

Lt Gen John Hesterman, AFCENT/CFACC. Ready and willing to use airpower to bring any nation to their knees. A great leader doing a tremendous job in CC.

CMSgt Colon-Lopez, AFCENT/CCC, combat hardened PJ, no-nonsense enlisted leader. Would make a great CMSAF.

[hispeed7721]

CMSgt Colon-Lopez, AFCENT/CCC, combat hardened PJ, no-nonsense enlisted leader. Would make a great CMSAF.

CL was awesome during his time at HRT...Totally agree about him WRT CMSAF Edited July 8, 2014 by hispeed7721

[Homestar]

Almost all my Sq/CCs so far have been good to great leaders/people. It gets hard once you leave the local level to understand why leadership acts the way it does but I don't think it's fair to assume they're just a bunch of clowns. There is a certain amount of "company man" that comes with flag leadership, understandably, but ultimately, like politics, all leadership is local for me.

[euro2005]

Never been an exec, but I did actually approach the Wg/CC once and asked him about the issues with the club. I went up to him, beer in hand, and struck up a conversation and it turns out, he actually had a different perspective from me and the rest of the line-swine squadron pilots who kept chanting for leadership to simply bootstrap the entire thing and just "make it not suck."

Turns out, there's a budget, he explained. The quality of food and service shrinks with the budget, and it drives a downward spiral that's difficult to recover from. People stop going, membership drops. The budget gets cut more, membership dues get raised. More people stop going. It's like any other business. Most of it is tied directly to the budget, he said. A lot of it is tied to the leadership, which includes the MSG/CC, FSS/CC, and others. Ever bother to talk to those guys?

A lot of it is tied to the culture of the base, command, or even AF at the time, which he admitted was a tough challenge.

Was just reading this thread and came across the discussion about clubs. Here at Cannon, it's a mixed-rank club. Nobody hangs there unless it's for a function of some sort. I've had fun there but it's always for a function. I've never really gotten to experience the fun that used to happen at an AF O Club. But, I did get to experience it at NAS Pensacola! That O Club was awesome. It typically closed whenever the last folks left or when the barteder kicked us out because she wanted to go out and get drunk too! Lots of students...Navy pilots & NFOs and AF CSOs. Some of our instructors would go there too (not as frequent as the students but they would make their appearances). Also, every so often, the AF would have a pint night there just because we like to drink. $10 gets you a glass and 2 beers.

When I was there, the AF folks would typically close out the bar and we would take over the pool table to play games of crud. The Navy dudes would have their flight suit Friday most Fridays (and lots of AF people drank on their tab lol), we had our drop nights there (mine was in one of our hangars because the O Club was booked!) and in general many folks just went to go and drink and have a good time with friends. I highly doubt this particular club is having financial issues. Somehow, it works. Also, the bar area just looks like somewhere I would like to go drink. It's not super fancy and there's various squadron stickers all over the mirrors on the bar back. There's spots where people can hang their custom mugs and they can leave these mugs there (until they PCS I guess). Along one of the walls there's a strip of velcro with all of the patches from all the flights who have graduated, for both branches. The food is also decent. Not the best ever but certain things were pretty good. I miss that place. Yeah, definitely is not what is wrong with the AF...we need more places like this ;)

[hispeed7721]

Here at Cannon, it's a mixed-rank club.

But, I did get to experience it at NAS Pensacola! That O Club was awesome. Lots of students

we had our drop nights there (mine was in one of our hangars because the O Club was booked!)

All clubs (maybe not 100%, but nearly) are mixed rank now bc of $$ and lack of membership.

The O Club at PCola is not what the past AF O Clubs were at all...and the only reason tons of studs go there is because they can drink and walk across the street to on base housing.

The drop nights are required to be at the O Club (or at least they used to be), unless they have sh1tty planning (shocker, it happens all the time there) and must move elsewhere...drop nights don't happen there because of how "awesome" it is

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pawnman]

All clubs (maybe not 100%, but nearly) are mixed rank now bc of $$ and lack of membership.

The O Club at PCola is not what the past AF O Clubs were at all...and the only reason tons of studs go there is because they can drink and walk across the street to on base housing.

The drop nights are required to be at the O Club (or at least they used to be), unless they have sh1tty planning (shocker, it happens all the time there) and must move elsewhere...drop nights don't happen there because of how "awesome" it is

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

PCola had an awesome O'club. Students, instructors, vets who would regale you with stories of low-level ingresses into downtown Hanoi...It was a great place. If more clubs were like the one at PCola, then we might not have to listen to our senior leaders bitch about club membership all the time.

[Disco_Nav963]

The Minot club is notionally mixed, but the only enlisted that show on Friday nights are a couple of CMSgts that hang out on their own side of the room. The two flying squadrons generally make a good push after Roll Call—mine moreso than our sister squadron, because frankly our wives are more fun than theirs. We each have our own table, and the bartender makes no objections when we do shots on the table and throw our shot glasses into the ceiling tiles. We tip her good and she treats us well. It's what I always imagined club life used to be like—minus the stripper poles. I look forward to moving somewhere warmer someday, but I will miss the Minot club. Remoteness has its perks for club economics.

[Hacker]

Lt Gen John Hesterman, AFCENT/CFACC. Ready and willing to use airpower to bring any nation to their knees. A great leader doing a tremendous job in CC.

Have worked for him twice -- one of my "I'd fly into hell on his wing" leaders. I hope he goes far.

[chim richalds]

I stand corrected Liquid. I know there are plenty of good leaders out there, I just never seem to run into many. I may be jaded since most of my knowledge of flag officers comes from run ins with the previous AMC vice. I know there are good dudes who want to stay in and right the ship

Edited July 9, 2014 by chim richalds

[Fuzz]

AF Band wins AF District of Washington wing's squadron of the year......

https://www.usafband.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123405454

[matmacwc]

Booze of any kind is now banned in the AZANG with limited exceptions on any facility. Wow.

[SocialD]

Booze of any kind is now banned in the AZANG with limited exceptions on any facility. Wow.

I can think of at least 3 other states that have an alcohol ban on National Guard facilities. We've had this rule for years now...debriefs suffer!

Edit: This doesn't necessarily belong in the AF sucks thread, as there is a common theme of when these rules were imposed (not sure about he AZANG)...an Army officer running the show (ie...TAG).

Edited July 23, 2014 by SocialD

[DFRESH]

Booze of any kind is now banned in the AZANG with limited exceptions on any facility. Wow.

WTF, O?

[TheGuardGuy]

Booze of any kind is now banned in the AZANG with limited exceptions on any facility. Wow.

Who shit the bed? 161st or 162nd?

[StoleIt]

ILANG is the same.

[AnimalMother]

I think the odds are unfortunately pretty high that most, if not all AF bases will eventually end up dry, if not worse. I miss the good old days when taking away crew booze was a legitimate cause for full blown mutiny. It's like taking away your child's binky, you just don't do shit like that.

[sqwatch]

ILANG is the same.

OHANG was the same when I went through the b-course in '06. There are work-arounds. Real estate is pretty cheap outside the gate.

[snoopyeast]

ILANG is the same.

[BitteEinBit]

I knew this would happen when I saw an influx of Mormon officers joining the ranks 15 year ago. They are all policy makers now! (just joking Mormons)

Seriously? WTF is this AF coming to?! Are the WG/CCs really still wondering why the clubs are failing? Back when they were happening places, clubs were making the majority of their revenue on alcohol....period. Take that away, and don't be at all surprised that the clubs are going broke. Doesn't matter how many memberships you get...if you dry up the club, you can kiss the clubs goodbye.

I remember a time when the overseas clubs (Spanghalem/Ramstein) were happening places. GoGo dancers. Shit, even when I was young LT at Vance, they were still letting the girls from downtown on base to partake in the club festivities. (I know, that isn't saying much, but as a single LT...booty is booty).

Not only is this not my Dad's Air Force anymore...it is looking like it is not my AF anymore. Time to take my drinking problems somewhere else. Times a'changin fellas! Good luck everyone else...we're all counting on you!

[Tonka]

That was before camera phones and twitter-book-gram... Kids these days gotta show everyone, everything. Plausible denial-ability left a long time ago.

[Herk Driver]

True but the clubs were declining long before social media and cell phone cameras.

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

[HeloDude]

That was before camera phones and twitter-book-gram... Kids these days gotta show everyone, everything. Plausible denial-ability left a long time ago.

We shoud start wearing disguises...

[Fuzz]

https://www.jqpublic-blog.com/another-commander-sacked-air-force-unrecognized-ethical-tailspin/

"In February of this year, the commander of the 19th Airlift Wing relieved Lt. Col. Blair Kaiser of command of the 30th Airlift Squadron, an active duty C-130 unit embedded within the Wyoming Air National Guard. The news came as an absolute shock to Kaiser and his 200+ airmen. He’d just returned from commanding a deployed squadron in Afghanistan, a job he’d done with great distinction despite having been dispatched on short notice almost immediately after being given command of the 30th."

Looks like there may be another case reminiscent of Lt. Col. Perry.

[HercDude]

^ Worth the read, as are the comments.

Commander's get fired, that's reality. But the OG and Wing shuffling the old boss out the door with a gag order, never acknowledging why it happened, or how it could have been prevented, is a shame. That the man was later cleared of any wrongdoing, yet his career remains railroaded while those who leveled false accusations and those who fired him without cause remain unscathed, is much, much worse.

[Azimuth]

As someone who was stationed with Kaiser and had Rat as a Commander, I'm not surprised by the story.