What's wrong with the Air Force?

[brabus]

Not gone, just well hidden, at least some places.

[Stitch]

I'm a old timer and remember strippers and getting drunk at the club and looking forward of going to the club at quitting time having a drink with my boss blowing off steam as long as I was buying the round.

https://taskandpurpose.com/military-overkilled-alcohol-big-collateral-damage/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=tp-facebook&utm_campaign=culture

Been there, done that. Couldn't agree more. Spend many dollars at the club with the boss and got good career advice (what they call "mentorship" today) and heard some great stories on everything from buffoonery, to working jets (F-100/-105s, AT-28s) back in Thailand & Nam to avoiding HUGE pissed-off snakes at night while guarding garbage dumps in Ton Sun Nut in an effort to keep the VC from “recycling” our trash.

[di1630]

Reading stuff about RPAs/pilot shortage, made me recall an incident at my base about 10 yrs ago, that still infuriates me.

A fighter pilot G-locs during a training sortie (at an operational sq). Wakes up just in time. The guy had a family, new kid etc. and had been struggling in the jet. Tells his leadership that he would like to volunteer to go fly RPA's when they were just starting up and needed people.

Instead of letting a good motivated dude volunteer for RPA's, he got FEB'd, lost his wings, reflowed into an overcrowded shoe afsc and RIF'd a year later.

Tough to feel bad for an organization that has manning woes after seeing shit like that.

[Jughead]

Tough to feel bad for an organization that has manning woes after seeing shit like that.

Yep. I may have posted this story before....

Circa 2006-7, when all the LTs were being RIF'd (pardon me: "selectively retained"), I knew a guy, motivated new officer / USAFA grad / 1Lt. As much as the USAFA curricula allowed, he had taken all the right classes to get him to where he wanted: OSI*. Needs of the Air Force supposedly dictated otherwise, and upon graduation he was sent to MPF.

Fast forward ~3-ish years, he's caught in the thick of the RIF. He has continued pursuing the OSI angle, and had a BNR from a Wing/CC to come fill an OSI billet. OSI was undermanned; MPF was not undermanned, but through some quirk in the policy I didn't understand then or now, MPF officers were not allowed to cross-train. You guessed it: motivated young officer wants to go to a field he's prepared for and has the support of the gaining unit (to include Wg/CC), is told he can't cross-train--and, sorry, your services are no longer needed in MPF, buh-bye.....

*Insert OSI joke here, fair enough--but, my point stands.

[guineapigfury]

...

Tough to feel bad for an organization that has manning woes after seeing shit like that.

I don't think I know anyone who feels bad for the Air Force regarding manning woes. I feel plenty for the airmen who suffer the consequences of moronic decisions made by the Air Force. Edited April 4, 2015 by guineapigfury

[pawnman]

It's not reflected on the "stressed" career fields, because apparently across the force 12B is healthy enough...but within my community, we're hurting bad. So bad we brought back a guy who has been out of the aircraft for almost a decade, against his wishes, to put him back through the B-course. Not requal...the full B-course.

Meanwhile, we RIF'd/did not retain/whatever we're calling it this year three current and qualified WSOs, including an evaluator qualified in the latest upgrade in the aircraft (the "strip out all the electronics and replace them with shit from this century" mod, AKA SB-16 within the community).

So...AFPC clearly recognized we were short on WSOs, because they brought a dude back from 8 years outside the aircraft. Then cut three other current and qualified instructors. Net gain: -3 instructors, +1 WSO who was sent to the OSS and is unlikely to ever fly the new upgrade or deploy again before retirement. Makes perfect sense to me.

Standing by for Chang to tell me it all has to do with year groups...because that's what the squadrons really need, not qualified aviators.

Edited April 6, 2015 by pawnman

[brabus]

I think you win for the most fucked up personnel story I've ever heard. A1/AFPC are just unbelievably retarded.

[SurelySerious]

including an evaluator qualified in the latest upgrade in the aircraft (the "strip out all the electronics and replace them with shit from this century, AKA SB-16 within the community).

so old...

[ViperStud]

The problem is that these force shaping initiatives have been executed with a goal of political correctness having a higher priority than actually getting the job done.

A few years back one of my bros already had a separation date - his goal was always to fly vipers, serve his commitment and then go back and run the farm. With DOS in hand, he was force shaped and given ~80K as he was "kicked out." He was told by management that one goal of force shaping was to cut from an entire cross section of the force (gotta be "fair"), so it made some dipshit bean counter's slide he briefed to a general look a lot better that there were 1-2 11Fs on it. After all, why be honest and say that we aren't cutting those dudes because they are critically manned? Much more important to be PC. I'm always happy to see good shit happen to good people, but from the perspective of force and money management, this is a joke.

Fvck our culture and the management that made it what it is today. PC has become more important than mission accomplishment. It shows everywhere and I believe it is the root cause of 99% of our cultural problems that drove dudes like me out of AD.

[pawnman]

The problem is that these force shaping initiatives have been executed with a goal of political correctness having a higher priority than actually getting the job done.

A few years back one of my bros already had a separation date - his goal was always to fly vipers, serve his commitment and then go back and run the farm. With DOS in hand, he was force shaped and given ~80K as he was "kicked out." He was told by management that one goal of force shaping was to cut from an entire cross section of the force (gotta be "fair"), so it made some dipshit bean counter's slide he briefed to a general look a lot better that there were 1-2 11Fs on it. After all, why be honest and say that we aren't cutting those dudes because they are critically manned? Much more important to be PC. I'm always happy to see good shit happen to good people, but from the perspective of force and money management, this is a joke.

Fvck our culture and the management that made it what it is today. PC has become more important than mission accomplishment. It shows everywhere and I believe it is the root cause of 99% of our cultural problems that drove dudes like me out of AD.

So...how long before they offer him big money to re-enter active duty due to the "fighter pilot shortage" we keep hearing about?

[ViperStud]

I doubt it will happen. The shortage is absorbed by shorting staff positions. The porch is very blunt about it and it is the right way to handle the problem. Ultimately we will be cutting deep on staff positions and we will end up with 11Ms filling positions where we really want CAF expertise, but mother Air Force will still pay lip service to the fact that it's business as usual.

Who knows though, the cracks are already starting to show. The fact that there have been substantial changes to the bonus twice now in a matter of a few years shows that management is starting to sniff a problem.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

I doubt it will happen. The shortage is absorbed by shorting staff positions. The porch is very blunt about it and it is the right way to handle the problem. Ultimately we will be cutting deep on staff positions and we will end up with 11Ms filling positions where we really want CAF expertise, but mother Air Force will still pay lip service to the fact that it's business as usual.

Who knows though, the cracks are already starting to show. The fact that there have been substantial changes to the bonus twice now in a matter of a few years shows that management is starting to sniff a problem.

The AF has no clue about what it's about to face in the next decade. It has this idea that there will always be pilots to fill billets at will. The airlines are just now starting to hire at an unprecedented rate. At the same time all the high time OEF/OIF/etc veterans are reaching the end of their commitments around the time they would be hot for a staff gig. You can't send a brand new UPT grad to staff, so even increasing schoolhouse output won't fix the pilot manning problems the AF is just starting to see. It's not a matter of money either, just look at the take rate on the bonus. They're going to have to fundamentally change the way they do business if they want to successfully compete with the airlines for the experienced pilots that both organizations are seeking. The AF finds itself at a huge disadvantage at this realm. Airlines are completely in control of what they do with their company, whereas the AF is beholden to congress and POTUS taskings.

[Dupe]

I think you win for the most fucked up personnel story I've ever heard. A1/AFPC are just unbelievably retarded.

I'm a Test Pilot School graduate F-15E WSO with a current 1042 and IWSO form 8. I have experience in the newest F-15E radar about to hit the street as well as the SDB II.

I am currently a program manager for IT systems (with no experience in that area what-so ever). I ask myself every day why I am here and why @17D_guy is not.

Thankfully, this dream ends soon with IDE.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Dupe

[17D_guy]

Also, if you'll notice at the bottom of this picture it says starting 2016 funding will come from the IMSC vice MAJCOM.

https://www.facebook.com/jqpublic/photos/a.467220060016167.100368.467201356684704/875082632563239/?type=1&theater

"there will be growing pains"

Because having to go to the MAJCOM, to go to the IMSC, to get $$ for your mission related requirements is a "growing pain."

Guess we've got to justify all those generals somehow.

I don't even want to think what this is going to do for the support side of the house.

[olevelo]

I'm a Test Pilot School graduate F-15E WSO with a current 1042 and IWSO form 8. I have experience in the newest F-15E radar about to hit the street as well as the SDB II.

I am currently a program manager for IT systems (with no experience in that area what-so ever). I ask myself every day why I am here and why @17D_guy is not.

Thankfully, this dream ends soon with IDE.

Oh c'mon, you know I win! TPS grad CSO, sole staff instructor CSO at TPS, qualified on multiple AFSOC platforms including the AC-J (who gave the first ever checkride on the AC-J? This guy!). RIFd.

And hey look, my AFSC is on the stressed career fields list a few posts back! Oh, and right after I got notified, they assigned one of new grad RC-135 CSOs to a C-130 unit.

Left hand, meet right hand.

[Sprkt69]

I doubt it will happen. The shortage is absorbed by shorting staff positions. The porch is very blunt about it and it is the right way to handle the problem. Ultimately we will be cutting deep on staff positions and we will end up with 11Ms filling positions where we really want CAF expertise, but mother Air Force will still pay lip service to the fact that it's business as usual.

Who knows though, the cracks are already starting to show. The fact that there have been substantial changes to the bonus twice now in a matter of a few years shows that management is starting to sniff a problem.

Well maybe that 11M has completed IDE in correspondence or even in-res, so clearly they are a CAF expert for combat operations! My only hope is to be gone before some genius decides to stop loss or the poor decisions by upper management get me killed.

[Dupe]

Oh c'mon, you know I win! TPS grad CSO, sole staff instructor CSO at TPS, qualified on multiple AFSOC platforms including the AC-J (who gave the first ever checkride on the AC-J? This guy!). RIFd.

And hey look, my AFSC is on the stressed career fields list a few posts back! Oh, and right after I got notified, they assigned one of new grad RC-135 CSOs to a C-130 unit.

Left hand, meet right hand.

I think you did win! Escape velocity, a pile of cash, and a fair bit of useful know. Stop that GS shit and go start your own company.

[Jaded]

My only hope is to be gone before some genius decides to stop loss or the poor decisions by upper management get me killed.

Shack.

[Welcome Thrillho]

I doubt it will happen. The shortage is absorbed by shorting staff positions. The porch is very blunt about it and it is the right way to handle the problem. Ultimately we will be cutting deep on staff positions and we will end up with 11Ms filling positions where we really want CAF expertise, but mother Air Force will still pay lip service to the fact that it's business as usual.

Who knows though, the cracks are already starting to show. The fact that there have been substantial changes to the bonus twice now in a matter of a few years shows that management is starting to sniff a problem.

As an 11M who just left ACC staff, trust me... they are not putting us in positions where CAF expertise is necessary. Those billets are saved for your typical superstars (gotta have your boxes checked). I think those guys actually appreciated us outsiders, who populated the "Land of Misfit Toys".

[Hacker]

Bill Whittle comments on the toxic military environment. Are you intentionally being driven out to make room for the next generation of PC conformist yes-men, er...yes-people?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DS2wXSKF5k

What Whittle completely ignores is that the most significant amount of the destruction of the warrior culture took place under the W Bush administration (it is really post-9/11 that the changes he mentions in his video began). All of that change, by the way, was a natural evolution of the changes put into motion under the Clinton Administration during the mid-late 90s.

All of the Clinton shenanigans, for reference, were part of the fallout from the witch-hunt following the scandal at Tailhook '91...which, for those of you historians out there, took place during the administration of the 41st President.

So, I find his whole "Obama the Socialist's plan to destroy the tool of American Imperialism" schtick completely shatters his message because it represents a colossal misunderstanding of what has led up to the situation we have today. It gives way too much credit to one Administration -- it is really not possible that it is the "fault" of any one of these Administrations as part of some dastardly strategic plan, but rather it is part of an overall cultural shift in the US.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Hacker

[17D_guy]

What Whittle completely ignores is that the most significant amount of the destruction of the warrior culture took place under the W Bush administration (it is really post-9/11 that the changes he mentions in his video began). All of that change, by the way, was a natural evolution of the changes put into motion under the Clinton Administration during the mid-late 90s.

All of the Clinton shenanigans, for reference, were part of the fallout from the witch-hunt following the scandal at Tailhook '91...which, for those of you historians out there, took place during the administration of the 41st President.

So, I find his whole "Obama the Socialist's plan to destroy the tool of American Imperialism" schtick completely shatters his message because it represents a colossal misunderstanding of what has led up to the situation we have today. It gives way too much credit to one Administration -- it is really not possible that it is the "fault" of any one of these Administrations as part of some dastardly strategic plan, but rather it is part of an overall cultural shift in the US.

Very much enjoyed your comments Hacker. I get in discussions with people who're loudly right-wing all the time and blame the current Pres for everything. Like this shift happened in just a few years. I've got family that think the net neutrality thing is already a failure because there could be fees/charges/taxes, all gov't regulation is bad, and the companies will find a way to get us all internet "through competition."

All of these things take much longer to resolve, and are influenced by more than the dude in the Oval Office.

Christ.. it's why they're always talking about legacy.

Edited April 11, 2015 by 17D_guy

[Learjetter]

...perhaps it's time for you to go if you don't 100% tow the line. As we wring our hands over what a mess the Air Force is becoming and wondering why leadership doesn't "get it", we may be overlooking the fact that they do, in fact, "get it" and outspoken critics and the disillusioned punching out isn't nearly as concerning to them as it may be to us.

100% accurate assessment.

[17D_guy]

Was on JQP's facebook page. Thought it was pretty good -

https://taskandpurpose.com/4-reasons-i-am-resigning-my-commission-as-a-naval-officer/

[HuggyU2]

Was on JQP's facebook page. Thought it was pretty good -

https://taskandpurpose.com/4-reasons-i-am-resigning-my-commission-as-a-naval-officer/

A great rebuttal to LT Granville's poorly written letter.

https://www.askskipper.com/

Edited April 15, 2015 by Huggyu2

[Fuzz]

A great rebuttal to LT Granville's poorly written letter.

https://www.askskipper.com/

She lost me when she brought her "white, christian, male privilege" BS into an otherwise decent commentary. We don't need diversity of gender or skin color, we need diversity of thought. I've had great commanders from that demographic and bad ones, I've also seen good and bad commanders from other demographics. If those are the only people who stay in long enough to make those ranks then that's the way it goes. The army has been trying for years to recruit more minorities into the combat arms branches but continues to fail miserably because the demographics they seek have no interest in those areas.